Originally posted by python99
Why so much denial?
Your sadly mistaken my friend, I am not in denial. I simply do not allow my bias for a character to skew my perception of an encounter into being a fight when it clearly was not like some people I know 🙄
Originally posted by python99
When they were getting there asses tossed around, Wolverine says how he tried to warn Spidey but he wouldn't listen. Then calmly says sorry I attacked you and then Spidey says sorry for webbing you up. The ALLEY
Do not even recall Wolverine stating it in such away, but lets assume he did apologies about attacking.
Now if Logan said this, why would you think in any way he was referring to the ally? When did pointing at some one became attacking them? If any thing he was referring to the roof top.
I find it funny that you stated this.
Originally posted by python99
The comic with Spidey against the tree is just Wolverine being a bully. This is a situation where you can honestly say someone was just standing there
But then have the nerve to state that Logan attacked spiderman in the ally when he simply pointed at him……..and in the scenario above spiderman actually grabbed Logan first which is why Logan did what he did.
Bias much?🙄
Originally posted by python99
So you are bacically saying that if Wolveine does not have his claws out he is not fighting 🙄
Most of the time verses meta human’s yes. Also funny little thing is every other time when he actually attacked some one in the issue his claws were out………. :
Originally posted by Soljer
No need to apologize, an honest mistake is an honest mistake.I was just laughing at the mental image of Wolverine shooting around, outspeeding Indy Cars and the like.
thanks.
hahaha that would be funny, when you told me he bee going over 200 miles an hour I was like oh shit that was deffiently not the right numbers lol
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Your sadly mistaken my friend, I am not in denial. I simply do not allow my bias for a character to skew my perception of an encounter into being a fight when it clearly was not like some people I know 🙄Do not even recall Wolverine stating it in such away, but lets assume he did apologies about attacking.
Now if Logan said this, why would you think in any way he was referring to the ally? When did pointing at some one became attacking them? If any thing he was referring to the roof top.
I find it funny that you stated this.
But then have the nerve to state that Logan attacked spiderman in the ally when he simply pointed at him……..and in the scenario above spiderman actually grabbed Logan first which is why Logan did what he did.
Bias much?🙄
Most of the time verses meta human’s yes. Also funny little thing is every other time when he actually attacked some one in the issue his claws were out………. :
HAHAHAH I dont see how I am being baised with the comic sitting right infront of me as I type. Funny that you say assume Logan said what he said, obviously you dont know what he said. I am sure if you had proof to back up your claims as to what he said you would do so 😉 Logan flinched Spiderman reacted end of story
Originally posted by jinzinDoesn't matter. The point is that Logan didn't purposely let Parker web him. Logan was great reflexes and was watching the entire time. Hell, Logan was so alert that he was ready to fight that instant.
🤨
A different incident alltogether... the only time Spiderman's successfully webbed up Logan was during a non fight.
Do you think I would boldly be saying it didn't happen if I didn't know my stuff? I've seen just about all the scans showing CA or Wolverine "so called" dodging bullets. And from my reasoning they were just using evasive movement from the aim. They never once dodged the bullet after it was in the air (In canon of course). Now Wolverine is a slight exception as he can sense someone pulling the trigger and move out of the way before the bullet is fired. But no way in hell can they pull a
And why should I? Aside from the fact that it's basically common knowledge, you flat out said it wouldn't matter if I did, so where's my incentive?😂
"I don't like it, it didn't happen"
The problem with Spider-man is that he is too damn powerful and it is extremely hard to have a villain get the best of him without contradicting his powers and abilities. Think about it. If you created a character that not only has forewarning of any attack (so that he can actually dodge even before the attack is launched) but has speed capable of rivaling bullets at short spurts then you would have a very hard time creating a non stupid scenario where he gets hit. The writer's simply don't know what to do with him.
You've been arguing for several pages that he could beat them both "easily", so if that's what you meant you should have clarified...Now even in a three way without his webs? HE LOSES.... He loses horribly, his webs are the only thing that really makes him competative against a guy like Logan or Cap... without them he's toast.
It does if what they have done
What you've failed to recognize however, is that your opinions about what a character can or can't do based on power set alone doesn't necessarily take precidence over what they've done, especially when consistency is involved.
Common sense goes for everything. For it encompasses contradiction. Now someone shooting lasers out of their eyes doesn't go against common sense if that person had a reason for it (like being an alien). But someone not able to see the future and
Common sense is only applicable with the rules and principles of whatever world we're subjected to, you're subjecting yourself to a fictionalized media where people get powers from radiation instead of cancer.. where's common sense there?
If CA and Wolverine can move at Super sonic speeds then I quit. And speed isn't the only issue here my friend. Forewarning is even more powerful (even to a normal human).
Not if it's not used subjectively which is exactly what you're doing.
So it's "common sense" that Spiderman can move at Super sonic speeds but not others?
I'm not ignoring Wolverine or Cap feats. I'm just saying that if a feat(s) contradicts the many feats that have happened otherwise then it is invalid (PIS in many cases too). For two contradictory things can't be true at the same time. Otherwise, everything is nonsense.
Your argument necessarily forces people to accept the logically ridiculous of Spiderman but recognise it in Wolvie and Cap.. It opts to ignore Wolverine and Cap feats while upholding Spiderman's... it's subjective and it's not based in comic book reality, being that he hasn't been able to easily beat or web up either one of these two alone, nevermind them together.
And lastly, Darthgoober and others convinced me that SS can react and instant move to Superman level speed. They did this by showing some feats that he did that made me not only infer that he can do this
but prove that the fights he had with others were either PIS or invalid (They showed him not being able to react to mere punches or attacks that were far under light speed). So I was using a similar argument as you. I was convinced, through many of the fights that happened, that SS doesn't have the necessary battle speed to fight with Superman. But the individual feats I was shown made me know that those fights are invalid and that SS was supposed to react much much faster in those fights (for he has shown the ability to do so).
Originally posted by h1a8
Doesn't matter. The point is that Logan didn't purposely let Parker web him. Logan was great reflexes and was watching the entire time. Hell, Logan was so alert that he was ready to fight that instant.Do you think I would [B]boldly
be saying it didn't happen if I didn't know my stuff? I've seen just about all the scans showing CA or Wolverine "so called" dodging bullets. And from my reasoning they were just using evasive movement from the aim. They never once dodged the bullet after it was in the air (In canon of course). Now Wolverine is a slight exception as he can sense someone pulling the trigger and move out of the way before the bullet is fired. But no way in hell can they pull a
feat like Spiderman has done with the bullet being in midflight (not just leaving the barrel) and Spiderman turning around to see the bullet and then dodges accordingly. It's shocking why you don't think Spider-man is a lot faster than these two. And that's just speed alone.
Spider-man's greatest power, IMO, is his spider-sense which is totally ignored in this fight by many.The problem with Spider-man is that he is too damn powerful and it is extremely hard to have a villain get the best of him without contradicting his powers and abilities. Think about it. If you created a character that not only has forewarning of any attack (so that he can actually dodge even before the attack is launched) but has speed capable of rivaling bullets at short spurts then you would have a very hard time creating a non stupid scenario where he gets hit. The writer's simply don't know what to do with him.
It does if what they have done
is contradictory to what they could and have shown to do in the past.
This is like Superman, while being around CA, suddenly not being able to punch through a 6 inch thick steel door when he was shown to punch through 12 inch thick titanium before by himself.
Common sense goes for everything. For it encompasses contradiction. Now someone shooting lasers out of their eyes doesn't go against common sense if that person had a reason for it (like being an alien). But someone not able to see the future and
move with bullet like speeds when they are around someone when they have been shown to do so many times when they weren't around that person goes against common sense and is a contradiction.
If CA and Wolverine can move at Super sonic speeds then I quit. And speed isn't the only issue here my friend. Forewarning is even more powerful (even to a normal human).I'm not ignoring Wolverine or Cap feats. I'm just saying that if a feat(s) contradicts the many feats that have happened otherwise then it is invalid (PIS in many cases too). For two contradictory things can't be true at the same time. Otherwise, everything is nonsense.
And lastly, Darthgoober and others convinced me that SS can react and instant move to Superman level speed. They did this by showing some feats that he did that made me not only infer that he can do this
but prove that the fights he had with others were either PIS or invalid (They showed him not being able to react to mere punches or attacks that were far under light speed). So I was using a similar argument as you. I was convinced, through many of the fights that happened, that SS doesn't have the necessary battle speed to fight with Superman. But the individual feats I was shown made me know that those fights are invalid and that SS was supposed to react much much faster in those fights (for he has shown the ability to do so). [/B]
bla bla bla
you're either a rampant fanboy or you're completely insane.
You DON'T know your stuff it's that simple. Spiderman has attested that Wolverine can dodge lazers using his SS. DD attested he could dodge bullets with his radar sense. Wolverine says he can see bullets pass in slow motion, thinks he can dodge bullets, and has been stated to by an OBJECTIVE narrative on panel. You're simply and utterly ignoring what you don't like and implying an erroneous double standard beckoning us to accept that Spiderman can do what doesn't make sense but not the other two, you're igoring what's flat out happened between the characters in their fights, and you think Spidey can take them both...
you're entire argument boils down to "I don't like it, it didn't happen"... It's essentially a "nu-uh" argument, and it's absurd... absolutely absurd.
You think you're employing reasoning here, you're not, you're employing bias and subjective rationale..... ridiculous....
Spiderman's not fast enough to make a difference against either of these two in a h2h fight and any rationale member knows that, I refuse to continue arguing with someone who can't bring any evidence, or proof to the table... just.. "nu-uh"... 😬
Originally posted by jinzin
bla bla blayou're either a rampant fanboy or you're completely insane.
You DON'T know your stuff it's that simple. Spiderman has attested that Wolverine can dodge lazers using his SS. DD attested he could dodge bullets with his radar sense. Wolverine says he can see bullets pass in slow motion, thinks he can dodge bullets, and has been stated to by an OBJECTIVE narrative on panel. You're simply and utterly ignoring what you don't like and implying an erroneous double standard beckoning us to accept that Spiderman can do what doesn't make sense but not the other two, you're igoring what's flat out happened between the characters in their fights, and you think Spidey can take them both...
you're entire argument boils down to "I don't like it, it didn't happen"... It's essentially a "nu-uh" argument, and it's absurd... absolutely absurd.
Spiderman's not fast enough to make a difference against either of these two in a h2h fight and any rationale member knows that, I refuse to continue arguing with someone who can't bring any evidence, or proof to the table... just.. "nu-uh"... 😬
You know damn well I'm no fanboy. I always easily admit when I'm mistaken (many will attest to this). You either just don't understand my reasoning or you are a fanboy yourself.
I don't know my stuff huh? Wolverine is stated to see bullets in slow motion in a novel. Also seeing in slow motion doesn't automatically give one the speed to move fast let alone dodge bullets. You are still avoiding the definition of "dodging bullets and lasers". The definition requires one to move out of the way after the fire and not before. Should we take character's comments as the absolute truth, even if they go against comic sense? Can Sentry stalemate Galactus? Do you think that Logan can dodge a laser after it has been fired at him? (Please don't say yes to this as this would ruin your credibility for good)
Let me ask you something. Do you think SS can deal with Superman's speed if they battled? If so, why? (Remember in battle SS many times was unable to react to much slower speeds than what Superman is capable of.)
And my argument actually boils down to "Contradiction to the truth, thus it didn't happen". Whether I like it or not is of no consequence.
I posted many scans showing spiderman's superior speed. Did you miss them? One of the scans shows spiderman dodging a bullet after it was already in midflight (not the start flight). Yet you haven't shown
a single scan of them actually dodging bullets by the true definition. Mostly because you know I've seen them all before and would argue that they didn't dodge after the fire. Or you would simply show me a non-canon scan or quote from a novel.
You have the classic case of putting comic fights over forum fights.
I guess spider-man can beat firelord then since it "actually" happened.
Originally posted by h1a8
You know damn well I'm no fanboy. I always easily admit when I'm mistaken (many will attest to this). You either just don't understand my reasoning or you are a fanboy yourself.
Originally posted by h1a8
I don't know my stuff huh? Wolverine is stated to see bullets in slow motion in a novel. Also seeing in slow motion doesn't automatically give one the speed to move fast let alone dodge bullets. You are still avoiding the definition of "dodging bullets and lasers". The definition requires one to move out of the way after the fire and not before. Should we take character's comments as the absolute truth, even if they go against comic sense? Can Sentry stalemate Galactus? Do you think that Logan can dodge a laser after it has been fired at him? (Please don't say yes to this as this would ruin your credibility for good)
It gives one the inclination that if his senses are enough to track bullets his reflexive abilities may be fast enough to react to them... Is that absolute proof? No.. BUT.. when you have him drawn to sidestep bullets after their fired, when you have characters who by the definition of their powers can tell without a shadow of a doubt that the man's dodging bullets, and when you have a third person narratives saying he can do it as well.... well it leads one to believe that the character's capable of doing such a thing in spite of what you believe he SHOULD be able to do REALISTICALLY.
Now... it really doesn't matter what I think, Wolverine HAS dodged lasers before.... multiple times.. most street levels have... does it make sense? Well about as much sense as Spiderman's bone density being strong enough to clear 30-40 foot jumps and punch through steel without breaking even though it was only his musculature that got enhanced. 😬
Originally posted by h1a8
Let me ask you something. Do you think SS can deal with Superman's speed if they battled? If so, why? (Remember in battle SS many times was unable to react to much slower speeds than what Superman is capable of.)
And so has Superman, but in most of those instances, SS has either been written horribly out of character, against a history that contradicts this, or he's been holding back, like Supes.. When they go all out there is a much different pace at an undeniable consistency... SS can deal with Supes' speed because at his best, both of them actually they have comparable feats... Just like here.. At their best, Cap, Spidey, Wolverine... they ALL have comparable feats.
Originally posted by h1a8
And my argument actually boils down to "Contradiction to the truth, thus it didn't happen". Whether I like it or not is of no consequence.
Originally posted by h1a8
I posted many scans showing spiderman's superior speed. Did you miss them? One of the scans shows spiderman dodging a bullet after it was already in midflight (not the start flight). Yet you haven't shown
a single scan of them actually dodging bullets by the true definition. Mostly because you know I've seen them all before and would argue that they didn't dodge after the fire. Or you would simply show me a non-canon scan or quote from a novel.
NONE of those pictures show that Spiderman has superior speed.. 😐
Again, comparable feats between all of them dictate this...
And again, dodging a bullet after it's fired.... vs. blocking a bullet after it's fired.... there's no superiority there....
And again, why should I go get scans all set and prepped for you when you already said that you're going to ignore them if I do?.... I mean damn, Wolverine's caught a bullet.... 😐
Originally posted by h1a8And you have a classic case of "I don't like it, it didn't happen" in spite of subjecting yourself to a fictionalized media......
You have the classic case of putting comic fights over forum fights.
I guess spider-man can beat firelord then since it "actually" happened.
If firelord's holing back 95% of his power for the sake of keeping things interesting while Spiderman gets nearly unlimited plot devices... sure he's got a shot.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
never mind ignore that. I gotta look it up this weekend when im home.im an idiot it was 10 miles in 40 minuts.
I look it up when I am home to make sure, but I pritty sure that was it.
Okay more reasonable than what was down before, however; 10 miles in 40 minutes is only 15MPH great stamina and endurance just seems kinda slow for a guy like Wolverine
Why are you all debating with h1a8, hes one of the worst debators on here and he thinks that people with speed can beat anyone. There is nothing to prove that spiderman is miles greater then wolverine or cap in speed.
His history fighting them have been rediculous and you cant say that spiderman lost the fight because the book would sell more because out of all the 3 spiderman is the most popular. Wolverine and cap clearly owned him on more then on occasion. Actually on one occasion wolverine sat down and took and enrage spiderman punches like it was nothing (marvel knights #13).
I give this to wolverine, cap comes next, then spiderman. The only reason spiderman actually stands a chance in this battle is due to his webbing, without that he would get walked all over.
Originally posted by carver9
Why are you all debating with h1a8, hes one of the worst debators on here and he thinks that people with speed can beat anyone. There is nothing to prove that spiderman is miles greater then wolverine or cap in speed.His history fighting them have been rediculous and you cant say that spiderman lost the fight because the book would sell more because out of all the 3 spiderman is the most popular. Wolverine and cap clearly owned him on more then on occasion. Actually on one occasion wolverine sat down and took and enrage spiderman punches like it was nothing (marvel knights #13).
I give this to wolverine, cap comes next, then spiderman. The only reason spiderman actually stands a chance in this battle is due to his webbing, without that he would get walked all over.
No, Spiderman wins.