cap vs wolverine vs spider man

Started by Ultraman Baltan28 pages
Ultraman Baltan Restricted

Spiderman kills them. Cap is skilled enough to give Wolvie a good fight, but at his very best, Spidermaan would wipe him out.

thedude1948 Senior Member
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He's beat multiple opponents before. And for the last time, this isn't the comic book, the match speculation was no CIS. 2 members of the trio would die in one hit. The ONLY way Cap is winning is inside of a comic... I can pull numerous examples of Spiderman beating vastly more powerful people.

Spider-Man's fist would break if he hit someone with a 10 ton punch.
Since this is a not a comic book fight it is impossible for Spider-Man to really be this strong and still have the same body frame. Cap would only need to hit Spider-Man in the head with his shield once to KO him

lando005 Senior Member

i'm still waiting to see how rotiart belives cap is more agile than spider-man

Darth Martin Senior Member

If spiderman is written to his full-potential and not holding back he wins.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

Originally posted by thedude1948
Spider-Man's fist would break if he hit someone with a 10 ton punch.
His current strength is 15-20 tons and he doesn't need that. By that same token Logan would bleed to death... Bad logic. The inertia would be fine as it would transfer to the head, even if he hit it on the pavement he would be ok. He has a high metabolism so he heals faster, and he's leveled buildings before.

Originally posted by thedude1948
Since this is a not a comic book fight it is impossible for Spider-Man to really be this strong and still have the same body frame.

That's funny since Spiderman's skeletal and musculstature has been augmented to support his lifting strength, his body is more dense and he has more outside durability than Wolverine or Cap (this means it takes more force to do initial damage to him.)

Originally posted by thedude1948
Cap would only need to hit Spider-Man in the head with his shield once to KO him
He can dodge a 70mph shield with little to no effort, since this is not a comic fight, Cap is only slightly greater than an Olympic athlete, Wolverine isn't that much more ahead.

thedude1948 Senior Member

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
His current strength is 15-20 tons and he doesn't need that. By that same token Logan would bleed to death... Bad logic. The inertia would be fine as it would transfer to the head, even if he hit it on the pavement he would be ok. He has a high metabolism so he heals faster, and he's leveled buildings before.

That's funny since Spiderman's skeletal and musculstature has been augmented to support his lifting strength, his body is more dense and he has more outside durability than Wolverine or Cap (this means it takes more force to do initial damage to him.)

your whole arguement is bad logic. You say one thing and ignore the other. You take away Caps Super-human durability but keep Spidermans Super Strength which is only possible in a comic, You cannot augment a human body to lift 15-20 tons it is impossible, so he isnt getting Superhuman strength.

Spiderman cannot beat Cap H2H he admitted this, so in a non comic book fight would KO Spiderman with one punch since there is no way he could take a punch from someone at peak human strength, then when he is down Cap bashes his brains in with his shield.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!
Originally posted by thedude1948
your whole arguement is bad logic.

No, you just don't know what logic is, logic is a reason for inference.

the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.

People should take logic lessons seriously, the "it's a comic so there's no logic" is bull. It's a debate forum with COMIC characters, common sense still applies.

Originally posted by thedude1948
You say one thing and ignore the other.

Like you're doing now because you're biased?

Originally posted by thedude1948
You take away Caps Super-human durability

What the hell? Cap doesn't have superhuman durability, he's a peak human.

Originally posted by thedude1948
but keep Spidermans Super Strength which is only possible in a comic,
Because Spiderman does have superhuman strength, it doesn't matter if you don't like it, tough. He has it, so he gets it in the forum. Why can't people grasp simple concepts on this forum? Why can't people understand that a peak human can't take a multiton hit at a high velocity?

Originally posted by thedude1948
You cannot augment a human body to lift 15-20 tons it is impossible,
I didn't do anything, Marvel did.

Originally posted by thedude1948
so he isnt getting Superhuman strength.

Why do you people post this tripe? Dear sir, a trained MA hits at 2000 lbs per square inch, a boxer for 600. So a person who's density and musculstature are at 15-20 tons hitting at 300-400 mile velocity in the starting second can't ko a PEAK human? If you believe this then there are no words for that.

Originally posted by thedude1948
Spiderman cannot beat Cap H2H he admitted this,
Cap also admitted that Spiderman could never touch him. Hell Wolverine admitted Spiderman can break his neck, I guess we can go by that to?

Originally posted by thedude1948
so in a non comic book fight would KO Spiderman with one punch since there is no way he could take a punch from someone at peak human strength, then when he is down Cap bashes his brains in with his shield.
How about you're just a fanboy and wrong. This is the worst argument I've ever heard seroiusly, you're trying to take away the character? That's not how these forums work. You take the character as they ARE, and you put them in a theoretical match according to the rules, nowhere does it say that Spiderman or any other character loses their strength, by your poor logic Cap beats anyone on the forum... and in that case, there is no super soldier serum.

Cap fanboys are getting worse than Wolverine.

thedude1948 Senior Member

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No, you just don't know what logic is, logic is a reason for inference.

the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.

People should take logic lessons seriously, the "it's a comic so there's no logic" is bull. It's a debate forum with COMIC characters, common sense still applies.

I never said that, you are just using bad logic, Show me when Spider-Man has killed somebody on Caps level with a punch...


Like you're doing now because you're biased?
What the hell? Cap doesn't have superhuman durability, he's a peak human.

He has shown he has it so Marvel gave it to him. same logic, Taking punches from Iron-Man and not being knocked out is Superhuman Durability, he has it. You are just picking and choosing whatever you think is best for your argument.

Because Spiderman does have superhuman strength, it doesn't matter if you don't like it, tough. He has it, so he gets it in the forum. Why can't people grasp simple concepts on this forum? Why can't people understand that a peak human can't take a multiton hit at a high velocity?

I didn't do anything, Marvel did.

Same thing with Caps durability stop being a hypocrite. I Guess Caps durability is higher than your definition of peak human.


Why do you people post this tripe? Dear sir, a trained MA hits at 2000 lbs per square inch, a boxer for 600. So a person who's density and musculstature are at 15-20 tons hitting at 300-400 mile velocity in the starting second can't ko a PEAK human? If you believe this then there are no words for that.

That is BS, show me where a MA can hit 2000 lbs per square inch, a Boxer can hit way harder than any MA, And what does this have to do with the argument? Spiderman already has shown he cant land a punch on Cap.


Cap also admitted that Spiderman could never touch him. Hell Wolverine admitted Spiderman can break his neck, I guess we can go by that to?

where did cap say this? because in their fight cap "touched" him alot.

How about you're just a fanboy and wrong. This is the worst argument I've ever heard seroiusly, you're trying to take away the character? That's not how these forums work. You take the character as they ARE, and you put them in a theoretical match according to the rules, nowhere does it say that Spiderman or any other character loses their strength, by your poor logic Cap beats anyone on the forum... and in that case, there is no super soldier serum.

Cap fanboys are getting worse than Wolverine.


I already admitted Spiderman would win but your argument for him winning is one of the stupidest things I have ever read on this forum. You really need to calm down, this is a comic book forum no reason to get nerd raged about it.

lando005 Senior Member

the fight stands as is cap is peak human using 100% of human potential spider-man and wolverine are both meta humans they have abilities that go beyond what is possible for a normal human being that's the whole point of their powers so even in a real world situation the would still keep their power because they gain them through genetic alteration you can just say cap still has his power up but wolverine and spidy don't

Alfheim Junior Member
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
comic fight, Cap is only slightly greater than an Olympic athlete, Wolverine isn't that much more ahead.

Why do you keep coming out with this? I am sorry but this blatant hypocrisy. Forget about wether Cap can beat Spiderman for a minute. You keep complaining about how people show scans of Spiderman in his lowest showings, Captain America from the dawn of time has shown in the comics that cap is far greater than an olympic athelete but you keep saying that he is only slightly above.

His bio does not say "slightly" and the comics show him doing stuff much greater than an olympic athelete, what is the logical conclusion.

You yourself use bios and the comics to determine what a character is capable of doing. Yes you do not accept everything from these sources but you still use them. Cap has been shown to be consistently greater than an olympic athelete but you're not having it?

I think maybe you should stop complaining about Cap fans.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!
Originally posted by thedude1948
I never said that,

You have problems following trains of thought then, you very much said it...

Originally posted by thedude1948
You take away Caps Super-human durability but keep Spidermans Super Strength which is only possible in a comic

Your argument not mine.

Originally posted by thedude1948
you are just using bad logic,
You aren't using any logic at all, does it look like this is a comic book where both famous heroes must come off looking good?

Originally posted by thedude1948
Show me when Spider-Man has killed somebody on Caps level with a punch...

You know nothing about Spiderman you proved it when you argued his strength at 10 tons. Spiderman has held back flicks and ko'ed humans with little effort before. Spiderman is MUCH beyond a human and has leveled buildings and concrete. If he wants to he can lift himself stories in the air.

The ONLY level Cap gets a saving grace from is his popularity, where Marvel won't allow him to be killed, that doesn't apply here no matter how much you want it to.

Originally posted by thedude1948
He has shown he has it so Marvel gave it to him. same logic,
Marvel has NEVER listed Cap at Superhuman durability, SPiderman is only listed at enhance, and his body is initally tougher than Wolverine AND Captain America. So it's not the same logic, not at all, period.

Originally posted by thedude1948
Taking punches from Iron-Man and not being knocked out is Superhuman Durability, he has it.
No, that's PIS. You need to read the rules, Iron Man can lift 100 tons, if he gets a direct hit off of Captian America and doesn't knock him out, it's crap plain and simple.

Originally posted by thedude1948
You are just picking and choosing whatever you think is best for your argument.

I'm picking facts, you're just picking PIS.

Spiderman is 15-20 tons strong? Fact.

Cap can take hits from Iron Man? Biased, fanboy opinion.

Originally posted by thedude1948
Same thing with Caps durability stop being a hypocrite.

I'm being a hypocrite? Where is Spiderman a peak human and Cap not? I think you have a problem with your use of the English Language.

Hypocrite One who professes beliefs that one does not follow.

For me to be a hypocrite I would have had to use a peak human, but i didn't. Too bad huh?

Originally posted by thedude1948
I Guess Caps durability is higher than your definition of peak human.
You mean Marvel's definition of a peak human being the highest that A HUMAN can possibly attain? I guess we can't all be in fanboy land.

Originally posted by thedude1948
That is BS, show me where a MA can hit 2000 lbs per square inch,
[i]Volume 1 JOURNAL OF HOW THINGS WORK Fall, 1999
© 1999 Jon Chananie 1
THE PHYSICS OF KARATE STRIKES
JON CHANANIE
University of Virginia, Charlottesville, VA 22903
1 Introduction
In recent years, the ancient eastern art of Karate-Do (a Japanese word, literally
translated as “the way of the empty hand”) has become popular in the western world.
Karateka—practitioners of Karate—often break boards, cinderblocks, and other solid
materials in order to demonstrate the strength that their training develops. Much can
be said of the history and culture associated with the expansion of martial training, but
this essay—it is, after all, a physics paper—will examine the collision mechanics of a
hand strike to a solid target like a board.
2 Force, Momentum, and Deformation Energy
That large objects moving at high speeds hit harder than smaller objects moving
more slowly goes without saying. In attempting to break a board, a karateka seeks to
hit the board as hard as possible. It therefore follows that the karateka should move
his or her weapon (for the purpose of this paper, the hand) as quickly as possible in
order to hit as hard as possible. But what makes for a “hard” strike? Two ways exist to
answer this question, both equally accurate. The first looks at the collision in terms of
force and momentum; the second looks at the collision in terms of energy.
Force (F) is acceleration (a) times mass (m): F = m· a. Momentum (p) is mass
times velocity (v): p = m· v. Since acceleration measures change in velocity over time
(t) (put another way, acceleration is the derivative of velocity with respect to time),
force is the derivative of momentum with respect to time. Equivalently, force times
time equals change in momentum, or impulse (p): p=F· t. This is significant
because momentum is a conserved quantity. It can be neither created nor destroyed,
but is passed from one object (the hand) to another (the board). The reason for this
conservation is Newton’s third law of motion, which states that if an object exerts a
force on another object for a given time, the second object exerts a force equal in
magnitude but opposite in direction (force being a vector quantity) on the first object
for the same amount of time so the second object gains exactly the amount of
momentum the first object loses. Momentum is thus transferred. With p a fixed
quantity, F and t are necessarily inversely proportional. One can deliver a given
amount of momentum by transferring a large force for a short time or by transferring
small amounts of force continuously for a longer time.
Why, then, move should the karateka swing his or her hand with as much velocity
as possible? Because if the hand is moving quickly, it is likely to decelerate (strictly
speaking, accelerate in the direction opposite to its direction of travel) more quickly in
response to the force the board exerts on it upon collision, as per Newton’s third law.
If the amount of time involved in the transfer of momentum is therefore small, the
amount of force that will be transferred to the target all at once will be large. This
sudden transfer of a lot of force causes the part of the board that is struck and which
therefore experiences that force to accelerate. If that part of the board accelerates Volume 1 JOURNAL OF HOW THINGS WORK Fall, 1999
© 1999 Jon Chananie 2
enough relative to other parts of the board (which are generally held still by the
cinderblocks on which the boards are placed), breakage occurs.
This same phenomenon can be analyzed in terms of energy transfer and resulting
deformation damage. Given and object with mass m1 at rest (the board) and another
object of mass m2 (the karateka’s hand) moving at velocity v upon impact and
ignoring the negligible amount of energy lost as thermal energy (heat), the amount of
energy in the system lost to deformation damage (E) is given by the following:
2
2 1 2
1 2
)
2 )
m E (m m
m (1e  =  v +
where e is the coefficient of restitution, which measures how elastic the collision is. It
is a function of the hardness or softness of the colliding objects, which along with
velocity determines impulse. If hard objects collide (for a perfectly inelastic collision,
e=0), they will accelerate one another quickly, transferring a large amount of force in
a small amount of time while soft objects colliding (for a perfectly elastic collision,
e=1) transfer smaller amounts of energy to one another for longer periods of time.
Difference in how long momentum takes to transfer and therefore in force at a given
instant is why hitting a pillow with the fleshy part of the hand hurts much less than
hitting a brick with the knuckles.
As E is proportional to the square of velocity, the more velocity the hand has, the
more energy will be transferred into the board. In the simplest possible terms, if the
board is infused with more energy than its structure can handle, it breaks. More
rigorously analyzed, energy transfer causes the board to dent. This process of
transferring energy is work (W). Work is force times distance (d): W=F· d. If the area
of the board that is struck dents a sufficient distance, it will break. Since the distance
it dents depends on the energy transferred to it and the amount of energy transferred
depends on the velocity of the karateka’s hand, a high-speed strike is most likely to
break the board.
3 Striking Surface
Any martial artist who has ever struck a board with improper hand technique can
attest to the physical pain associated with such impact. The human had is a complex
system of bones connected by tissue, and much can be said about the importance of
proper hand alignment in breaking. From the standpoint of physical science, however,
what is crucial about hand position upon impact is that all formulae for force,
momentum, and deformation energy are for a given unit of area. By minimizing the
amount of striking surface on the hand involved in collision with the board, a karateka
minimizes the area of the target to which force and energy are transferred and
therefore maximizes the amount of force and energy transferred per unit area.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

Consider a martial artist capable of striking with 190 joules (J) of energy. A typical
human hand is about 6 inches long including the fingers and 4 inches across, which
means that a strike with the entire hand disperses those 190 J over 24 square inches,
about 7.92 J per square inch. If, however, the karateka strikes with only the fleshy part
of the palm, about 2 inches across and 1.5 inches long, the 190 J will be dispersed
over only 3 square inches. That strike will deliver about 63.3 J per square inch,
inflicting many times the amount of damage the whole hand could—the same amount
of energy dispersed over a smaller area delivers more energy per unit area. This is Volume 1 JOURNAL OF HOW THINGS WORK Fall, 1999
© 1999 Jon Chananie 3
why martial artists seek to use as tiny a striking surface as possible in not only hand
techniques, but also kicks, elbows, and other strikes as well.
4 Point of Focus
Karate black belts often advise white belts before their first attempt at breaking
not to try to break the board, but to break the floor under the board. This is to ensure
that the hand does not decelerate prior to contact with the target, a mistake that
beginners, fearful of injury and therefore mentally hesitant, often make. High velocity
of the hand is critical to successful breaking, and data taken from high-speed movies
of karateka show that maximum hand velocity is achieved when the arm reaches
approximately 75% of extension. Intuitively, this makes sense. Since the hand cannot
move forward a distance greater than the length of the arm, it must have a velocity of
0 at full arm’s length extension. It follows that the hand must decelerate well before
the arm is fully extended. Advising beginners to attempt to hit an imaginary target
25% of their arms’ length on the far side of their targets would therefore be more
precise than the typical encouragement to aim for the floor, but the physical principle
is the same: maximum hand velocity is achieved when the point of focus of the strike
is well beyond the surface of the target.
5 Use of Body Mass
Note that mass is a co-efficient in the formulae for force, momentum, and energy
transfer alike: all three are directly proportional to mass. Since a human being’s mass
for the time it takes to deliver a strike is constant—a karateka with a body mass of 70
kilograms before a strike will have a body mass of 70 kilograms after the strike—
mass is often and erroneously dismissed as a constant in the equations for force,
momentum, and impulse. What matters is not the karateka’s body mass, but how
much of that mass is involved in the strike. A body mass of 70 kilograms is beyond
the karateka’s immediate control; how many of those 70 kilograms contribute to the
strike is very much within the karateka’s control. It is therefore crucial not to use the
arm alone to extend the weapon and hope for sufficient force and energy to break the
target. The entire body should be used by snapping the hips and pushing with the legs
in the direction of the target. This explains why boxers are seldom knocked
unconscious by jabs, where little more than the mass of the arm contributes to the
punch, but are frequently knocked out by hook punches where the entire mass of the
body is thrown behind the punch. The same principle of using the entire body mass to
deliver a blow applies in breaking techniques as well.
6 Specifics of Impact
Consider now the breaking process from the perspective of the target. When the
force of the strike is applied to the board or cinderblock, it accelerates in response to
that force. The key is that it does not accelerate uniformly—those areas where the
force is applied (the center of the target, if the strike is properly aimed) accelerate
much more than the outer regions of the target which are held in place by large
cinderblocks. This localized strain, the response to influence of stress imposed by the
strike, initiates the rupture. Strain is functionally the loss of height of the target that
occurs when the top surface is compressed and the bottom surface stretched. [/i]

Originally posted by thedude1948
a Boxer can hit way harder than any MA,

Wrong again, MA's are trained to hit in certain area's, and we all know that Force= Pressure X Area.

Originally posted by thedude1948
And what does this have to do with the argument?

Just that Spiderman hits incredibly hard. 🙄

Originally posted by thedude1948
Spiderman already has shown he cant land a punch on Cap.

Which is purely stupid on the behalf of anyone who thinks that, how can someone that is MUCH faster than you get hit more? Poor, poor writing, and to top it off he isn't fighting to the best of his abilities, since, it's not at this forum, and he heroworshipps Cap.

Originally posted by thedude1948
where did cap say this?
Cap, DD, and other peaks have already admitted that Spiderman is too fast for them in high gear. I think that would be quite obvious seeing his speed and precognition.

Originally posted by thedude1948
because in their fight cap "touched" him alot.

And to think he has a stealth mode, who's using piss poor logic now?

Originally posted by thedude1948
I already admitted Spiderman would win but your argument for him winning is one of the stupidest things I have ever read on this forum.
You must not proofread your posts then.

Originally posted by thedude1948
so in a non comic book fight would KO Spiderman with one punch since there is no way he could take a punch from someone at peak human strength, then when he is down Cap bashes his brains in with his shield.

Yeah... 🙄

Originally posted by thedude1948
You really need to calm down, this is a comic book forum no reason to get nerd raged about it.
I'm not mad, thick people just annoy me, nothing I'm going to think about 10 minutes later though.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

Originally posted by lando005
the fight stands as is cap is peak human using 100% of human potential spider-man and wolverine are both meta humans they have abilities that go beyond what is possible for a normal human being that's the whole point of their powers so even in a real world situation the would still keep their power because they gain them through genetic alteration you can just say cap still has his power up but wolverine and spidy don't
I'm glad someone else understands this.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

Originally posted by Alfheim
Why do you keep coming out with this? I am sorry but this blatant hypocrisy. Forget about wether Cap can beat Spiderman for a minute. You keep complaining about how people show scans of Spiderman in his lowest showings, Captain America from the dawn of time has shown in the comics that cap is far greater than an olympic athelete but you keep saying that he is only slightly above.
I keep complaining about how people put Spiderman in a match with cap, and get an orgasm over small details, when Spiderman has ko'ed less poplular people of the same status his whole career with a single flick.

Heroes do great things, and in a time of great stress he can go beyond that. 60 mph is about Superhuman speed. I'm not saying he can't do great things, but his basic level is that, that is a comic book, this is a forum. You don't see me bringing up Spiderman's ridiculous feats, more or less solid fact of his strength, speed, and abilities, because they can't be disputed. It was the same ordeal with the ryu thread, people use noncanon info or whatever they want, and do the opposite fr their own character.

Originally posted by Alfheim
His bio does not say "slightly" and the comics show him doing stuff much greater than an olympic athelete, what is the logical conclusion.
All comics have characters doing crazy stuff, this is a debating forum.

Originally posted by Alfheim
You yourself use bios and the comics to determine what a character is capable of doing. Yes you do not accept everything from these sources but you still use them. Cap has been shown to be consistently greater than an olympic athelete but you're not having it?
I don't accept everything from the sources for either character. I don't accept Spiderman beating firelord like some do, nor do I accept any of his ridiculous showings. I told you how I felt about his speed, and I accepted it in a life/death situation, as humans can do superhuman things. I told you about his strength and how I accepted that.

So where haven't I accepted his terms?

Originally posted by Alfheim
I think maybe you should stop complaining about Cap fans.
When people write really dense things like, "Spiderman can't hit him but Cap can hit Spiderman more times than not" (utter bull and totally illogical, then I have no choice.

And I only complain about fanboys, not fans. There's a difference. MA fanboys can't seem to understand that a much faster and stronger opponent has the field advantage. Did anyone answer my rhino elephant comparison? I didn't think so.

thedude1948 Senior Member

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You have problems following trains of thought then, you very much said it...

Your argument not mine.

You aren't using any logic at all, does it look like this is a comic book where both famous heroes must come off looking good?


I did say that as an example, you ignore Caps durability because it isnt possible in the real world, but it is okay for Spider-Man.


You know nothing about Spiderman you proved it when you argued his strength at 10 tons. Spiderman has held back flicks and ko'ed humans with little effort before. Spiderman is MUCH beyond a human and has leveled buildings and concrete. If he wants to he can lift himself stories in the air.

Okay you use evidence of Spider-Mans in comic feats to form your idea of what he is capable of right?


The ONLY level Cap gets a saving grace from is his popularity, where Marvel won't allow him to be killed, that doesn't apply here no matter how much you want it to.

Well Marvel said he can so you cant ignore it. You really are showing that you are a fanboy, Maybe he isnt killed by those things because he has..... Super-human durability?


Marvel has NEVER listed Cap at Superhuman durability, SPiderman is only listed at enhance, and his body is initially tougher than Wolverine AND Captain America. So it's not the same logic, not at all, period.

No, that's PIS. You need to read the rules, Iron Man can lift 100 tons, if he gets a direct hit off of Captian America and doesn't knock him out, it's crap plain and simple.


You use examples of Spider-Mans feats to form your opinion on what Spider-Man is capable of, but its PIS if we do the same with Captain America? sounds alittle fanboy-ish.


I'm picking facts, you're just picking PIS.

Spiderman is 15-20 tons strong? Fact.

Cap can take hits from Iron Man? Biased, fanboy opinion.


Well IMO .....

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4029/scan1ry6.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8812/scan2su4.jpg


I'm being a hypocrite? Where is Spiderman a peak human and Cap not? I think you have a problem with your use of the English Language.

Hypocrite One who professes beliefs that one does not follow.

For me to be a hypocrite I would have had to use a peak human, but i didn't. Too bad huh?

You mean Marvel's definition of a peak human being the highest that A HUMAN can possibly attain? I guess we can't all be in fanboy land.

No you stated that Spiderman can kill a peak-human with a punch, Marvel has shown differently. You are being a hypocrite because you are putting different real world standards on Captain America than you are on Spider-man. You use comic feats for Spider-Man as evidence but ignore Captain America's feats because in your opinion a peak human could not do the same.


[i]Volume 1 JOURNAL OF HOW THINGS WORK Fall, 1999
© 1999 Jon Chananie 1
THE PHYSICS OF KARATE STRIKES
Punching bricks is different than punches in a fight.

thedude1948 Senior Member

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Just that Spiderman hits incredibly hard. 🙄

Cap does to, Spiderman said so


Which is purely stupid on the behalf of anyone who thinks that, how can someone that is MUCH faster than you get hit more? Poor, poor writing, and to top it off he isn't fighting to the best of his abilities, since, it's not at this forum, and he heroworshipps Cap.

Maybe because Cap is more skilled in fighting than Spider-Man?


Cap, DD, and other peaks have already admitted that Spiderman is too fast for them in high gear. I think that would be quite obvious seeing his speed and precognition.

Then Amazing Spider-Man #534 and Civil War #3 retconned this.


And to think he has a stealth mode, who's using piss poor logic now?

You must not proofread your posts then.

Okay Ill agree with you on this, If Spider-Man used his stealth in a fight the whole time he would beat Cap, He wouldnt kill cap in one punch, but he would eventually beat him.


Yeah... 🙄

I'm not mad, thick people just annoy me, nothing I'm going to think about 10 minutes later though.

I was doing the same thing you were, applying biased, opinionated, real world logic to only one character.

Alfheim Junior Member
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I keep complaining about how people put Spiderman in a match with cap, and get an orgasm over small details, when Spiderman has ko'ed less poplular people of the same status his whole career with a single flick.

Ok what status are you talking about? Im sorry but this officially proves that you ignore important points made by debators, less popular people have given Spiderman trouble and have even beaten him. Are you going to use that point again?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Heroes do great things, and in a time of great stress he can go beyond that. 60 mph is about Superhuman speed. I'm not saying he can't do great things, but his basic level is that, that is a comic book, this is a forum.

Oh I see...so what you're telling me is that some one who is slightly above an Olympic athelete can dodge bullets and lasers for decades....just because there stressed.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

You don't see me bringing up Spiderman's ridiculous feats, more or less solid fact of his strength, speed, and abilities, because they can't be disputed. It was the same ordeal with the ryu thread, people use noncanon info or whatever they want, and do the opposite fr their own character.

Good for you I try not to as well.

Originally posted by Alfheim

All comics have characters doing crazy stuff, this is a debating forum.

Yeah so what....answer the question

Originally posted by Alfheim

His bio does not say "slightly" and the comics show him doing stuff much greater than an olympic athelete, what is the logical conclusion.

Originally posted by Alfheim

I don't accept everything from the sources for either character. I don't accept Spiderman beating firelord like some do, nor do I accept any of his ridiculous showings. I told you how I felt about his speed, and I accepted it in a life/death situation, as humans can do superhuman things. I told you about his strength and how I accepted that.

So where haven't I accepted his terms?

No you have not accepted the terms you are coping out. First of all you keep saying that he is only slightly above an Olympic athlete, that is crap. The bio does not say slightly and his showings consistently show that he is far above an Olympic athlete. yes we can say something may be out of his range but he consitently dodges lasers and bullets no athletes can do that no matter how stressed they are.

Originally posted by Alfheim

When people write really dense things like, "Spiderman can't hit him but Cap can hit Spiderman more times than not" (utter bull and totally illogical, then I have no choice.

Well spiderman can hit Cap in close combat, but sorry if it comes to H2H Cap is probably going to win. First of all Cap is not slightly above olympic level he is far beyond and can be considered to be low level superhuman, furthermore he is a martial arts and tactical expert and Spiderman is not. Yes Spiderman has his won fighting style and is not stupid, but the fcat of the matter is he is agreat deal weaker than Cap in that department.

Originally posted by Alfheim

There's a difference. MA fanboys can't seem to understand that a much faster and stronger opponent has the field advantage.

For starters he is not much faster than Cap. For God sake , when they had that 7 point system cap was put one level under Spiderman. In the Marvel RPG Caps agility was put one level under Spiderman. Whats going on are these guys crazy?? He is slower than Spiderman but not by a huge margin. He is onl greater than him by a big deal in strength!!!

Originally posted by Alfheim

Did anyone answer my rhino elephant comparison? I didn't think so.

Im sorry its rubbish because you're comparing humans in the MU to ones in the real world. I maen for crying out loud the humans in the Mu were experimented on by The Celestals animals were not.

Alfheim Junior Member

Furthermore if you look at the bio you used for cap it states in black and white that his fighting abilities give him the ability to beat much stronger and superhuman oponents.

<He is extremely skilled in hand-to-hand combat, sometimes taking on and defeating foes whose strength, size, or superpowers greatly exceed his.

thedude1948 Senior Member

Originally posted by Alfheim
Furthermore if you look at the bio you used for cap it states in black and white that his fighting abilities give him the ability to beat much stronger and superhuman oponents.

<He is extremely skilled in hand-to-hand combat,[B] sometimes taking on and defeating foes whose strength, size, or superpowers greatly exceed his. [/B]

thats PIS/CIS!

😄

Alfheim Junior Member

Originally posted by thedude1948
thats PIS/CIS!

😄

Yes and thats the quote the C-Master used in the Cap vs Spidey thread. He completely ignored that and one of things he deduced was that......ok nevermind dont want to give them ammuntion to focus on.