Well....
A mighty "Touche" to all you Cap supporters out there. I was brought to the attention of 2 fights between Cap and Spidey recently, 1 in ASM 534 (inconclusive but Cap gets the better of it) and one in CW #3.
So, curious at this "2nd loss" in CW #3, I went back and checked...
Turns out, the first thing that happens in their scuffle is this: Cap throws his shield at Pete, who dodges it and redirects it at a bunch of people, hitting 3-4 opponents in the process. He then disappears for a moment before jumping out and thumping Cap good (there's a comment about a "butt-kicking button" that Pete makes at this point).
Only after that do we get a shot where they appear to be fighting in the distant background, and it looks like Cap is completing a punch and Parker is flying backwards a bit.
Thus.
Hardly the "win" Cap fans wanted, and again I'd simply say that it was inconclusive, and that anyone vaguely familiar with both power sets will realize that a brief advantage or a stalemate is the best Cap will ever do against Spidey.
...but I'll give you all credit. I actually believed whoever told me that Cap was winning, but it's obvious they chose to ignore certain aspects of the fight as well. I've spun a fair amount of half-truths in my day to work an angle, so I know what it's like.
Thus endeth Digi's fanboy-driven rant. 😎
This is getting quite ridiculous, I'm a bit tired of people taking my points way out of context, and then contradicting themselves in the same quote. This is when arguing with people like this enters its climax and you're only hitting your head on a brick wall this point out. I just got out of a long day of work and my head is killing me, this won't help it.
Originally posted by thedude1948No, you really need to listen, I have ignored NOTHING for Spiderman because the example wasn't of Spiderman, it was for Cap. Furthermore you have problems correlating points, because my initial point had NOTHING to do with the real world? Where are you getting this from? Do you ignore things on purpose. I don't ignore points, I debunk them, your point was DEBUNKED because in the forum it would be a different story than in a comic book. A hero will never permenantly kill Cap with a 1 hit, be it Iron Man, or a Mountain Shattering Hulk. Your argument is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, and you are taking my points out of context, when people do that it brings another side of me. Stop putting words in my mouth and stop assuming. Alfheim is getting a bit worse as he knows my argument at this point, and he's still taking it out of tangent.
I did say that as an example, you ignore Caps durability because it isnt possible in the real world, but it is okay for Spider-Man.
Originally posted by thedude1948When have I said you could NOT do the same? Could you please go and point that out for me, I'll be thoroughly impressed. I'll be more impressed if you tell me which of Spiderman's feats are not feasable for a 15-20 ton, 120,000 per meter tensile strength webber, 15 or more times faster, agile, and precognitive character, as opposed to what Cap gets away with, being a class THREE in all of his categories as a peak human (making him a 800 lb lifter in default).
Okay you use evidence of Spider-Mans in comic feats to form your idea of what he is capable of right?
Originally posted by thedude1948
Well Marvel said he can so you cant ignore it.
Marvel said he can what? What, please tell me? Or are you talking about writing in this forum by different writers that is open to interpretation anyways.
Originally posted by thedude1948
You really are showing that you are a fanboy,
No, not really. You are using that as a retort because I called you one (notices your avatar, and the other defender's avatar in here). I haven't said anything of Spiderman to be too extreme, and it's common knowledge that he has the power to kill/ko Captain America in this forum without the bias of writers or a fanbase, if you don't like it, tough, I don't care. This isn't a comic, it's a theoretical debate for discussing COMIC characters. Understand that, and then go and understand Spiderman.
Originally posted by thedude1948Maybe you are just too dense and biased. Could you go and prove where Cap is stated at Superhuman anything? He is a peak human-the pinnacle of what a human can be. Not what you want him to be. Captain America is NOT bullet proof, so why in the **** is getting hit by guys like Hulk and Iron Man without dying? Explain that to me if you're so smart. 100 tons is 1/5 of a million pounds, and that's at the bottom of it. Iron Man and Hulk aren't.
Maybe he isnt killed by those things because he has..... Super-human durability?
We've already established that Spiderman holds back in his fights and that he isn't a killer, for anyone to say otherwise is ignorant of Spiderman.
Ridiculous argument, and I want Cap's "superhuman durability" I keep hearing about. Please.
Originally posted by thedude1948
You use examples of Spider-Mans feats to form your opinion on what Spider-Man is capable of, but its PIS if we do the same with Captain America? sounds alittle fanboy-ish.
Again I want you to go out and point where I've said this, please. The points that I've brought in are EASILY done by a person of Spiderman's calibur, I've proven that either way and you've simply ignored it (as you did with my martial arts evidence). You on the other hand are trying to argue a guy who isn't BULLETPROOF to take incredible amounts of force stronger than bullets with no problem, but he wouldn't be dodging them in the first place. Damned stupid fanboy argument.
Originally posted by thedude1948He should have been dead, and he's not doing well, so what was your point of bringing it up?
Well IMO .....http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4029/scan1ry6.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8812/scan2su4.jpg
Originally posted by thedude1948Because we all know that Spiderman is a killer. 🙄
No you stated that Spiderman can kill a peak-human with a punch, Marvel has shown differently.
You haven't shown one way that someone is going to survive a multiton punch, it would utterly crack his skull. A peak human is a human at it's best and that's not even bulletproof (hell Spiderman isn't and his body is VERY dense). You are going to have to explain that one to me. But I know you won't, you'll just go on more assanine rambling.
Originally posted by thedude1948
You are being a hypocrite because you are putting different real world standards on Captain America than you are on Spider-man.
1. I haven't and didn't start the "real world argument" you did, and it was flawed, because you started some stupid bullshit about Spiderman not being able to blah blah blah because it couldn't happen in the real world. Sorry it doesn't work that way, we accept them as characters and logic applies. What you don't understand, or would rather not accept is that debates NEED a logical grounding in them. You haven't seen me argue that Spiderman can take ridiculous amounts of force, simply that he could deliver greater foreces than Cap can take, hell, he can just drop a sub on him. You've shown that you know little of force, fighting, and real world logic anyways, and you're only contradicting yourself.
2. Cap is a PEAK human, Spiderman is not.
Originally posted by thedude1948Spiderman is superhuman, I'm sure Cap can't do the same as Spiderman, terrible argument.
You use comic feats for Spider-Man as evidence but ignore Captain America's feats because in your opinion a peak human could not do the same.
Originally posted by thedude1948
Punching bricks is different than punches in a fight.
Utterly dismissing my point (and doing a terrible job grasping it altogether_, and that was distribution of force. Force= pressure times area. Doesn't matter what I hit, all that matters is that I hit it with a great amount of force. There is proificiencies in a fight, hence why there are different types of damage, Spiderman's damage is CONCUSSIVE damage which means that it is blunt force over a wider area. With the shape of Cap's skull it will not give in it will resist (different than a flat stomach) this same argument was brought up with Wolverine, I took care of that. Consider this point utterly debunked, since Spderman can backhand people 20feet back, like he did with Wolverine and Cap's much lighter, they aren't even 1/100th of his lifting power, so it's logical.
Originally posted by thedude1948
Cap does to, Spiderman said so
I have no problem accepting he hits hard, it doesn't bother me one bit, but he doesn't hit 1/50th as hard as what Spiderman does.
Originally posted by thedude1948
Maybe because Cap is more skilled in fighting than Spider-Man?
If you think a bit of skill will make up for such a shortcoming, you would be as ridiculous as saying a human beats and elephant or rhino. The difference in physicality is simply THAT big.
Originally posted by thedude1948How so.
Then Amazing Spider-Man #534 and Civil War #3 retconned this.
Originally posted by thedude1948
Okay Ill agree with you on this, If Spider-Man used his stealth in a fight the whole time he would beat Cap,
Thank you.
Originally posted by thedude1948
He wouldnt kill cap in one punch, but he would eventually beat him.
I'm not even saying SPIDERMAN could only do it, I'm saying that ANY skilled MA could do it. Hit him under the nose or in the temple he's out. I do fighting and I know all of the pressure points and nerve points in the body. Spiderman CAN knock him out much easier, and not have a guilty conscience about it.
Originally posted by thedude1948You were applying wrong, wrong, wrong, logic to both characters, you should thank me that I took care of that for you.
I was doing the same thing you were, applying biased, opinionated, real world logic to only one character.
Originally posted by AlfheimWhat you are proving is that you consistently miss points and trains of thought. It doesn't matter how much "he's above an xxx" the fact is that he's PEAK human, he is. No matter how many scans you pull up of him catching missles won't change that. I counter every point, and just because I don't agree with it, doesn't mean I ignore it. I'm not obligated to agree with every thing you say, it doesn't work that way.
Ok what status are you talking about? Im sorry but this officially proves that you ignore important points made by debators,
Originally posted by Alfheim
less popular people have given Spiderman trouble and have even beaten him. Are you going to use that point again?
Pull out these strings of less popular people that have beat Spiderman in a fair 1on1 fight where outside intereference wasn't a factor, and that opponent was statistically the same as Cap, do this and I'll be uber impressed.
Originally posted by AlfheimBullets and lasers are some of the biggest jobbers in comics my friend.
Oh I see...so what you're telling me is that some one who is slightly above an Olympic athelete can dodge bullets and lasers for decades....just because there stressed.
Originally posted by Alfheim
No you have not accepted the terms you are coping out.
I'm "coping" out because I'm sooo scared of debating with you guys... right.
I didn't actually disagree, I agreed that it could be done in certain situations, but he's not running faster than he throws his shield, sorry.
Originally posted by AlfheimHow about this, he's PEAK human from now on, go it?
First of all you keep saying that he is only slightly above an Olympic athlete, that is crap.
Originally posted by AlfheimHe's once again peak human, and he's obviously going to do crazy things in a comic, since it's well, a comic.
The bio does not say slightly and his showings consistently show that he is far above an Olympic athlete.
Originally posted by Alfheim
yes we can say something may be out of his range
Originally posted by Alfheim1. You should really try dodgin bullets one day, it's not so bad because it relies on this next point.
but he consitently dodges lasers and bullets no athletes can do that no matter how stressed they are.
2. There's a difference between dodging and missing on behalf of the marksman. Spiderman dodges, if he would have stayed in that same spot he would have been hit, that is different from the marksman missing.
3. It's a comic and he's a hero, there have been average Joes who've done it as well here and there. Again I'm not saying Cap can't DO superhuman feats, only that he's not superhuman, there's a difference.
Originally posted by AlfheimIf Spidemran is fighting like a comic and not in this forum to the best of his abilities. Unless again you think a human beats a rhino or elephant, in which there's no more point in debating with you, because you would have proven yourself to be a fanboy.
Well spiderman can hit Cap in close combat, but sorry if it comes to H2H Cap is probably going to win.
Originally posted by Alfheim
First of all Cap is not slightly above olympic level he is far beyond a
Originally posted by Alfheim
nd can be considered to be low level superhuman,
Originally posted by Alfheim
furthermore he is a martial arts and tactical expert and Spiderman is not.
Originally posted by AlfheimAnd Cap is much weaker than Spiderman everywhere else across the board than Spiderman is in fighting, Spiderman is a 4 in fighting.
Yes Spiderman has his won fighting style and is not stupid, but the fcat of the matter is he is agreat deal weaker than Cap in that department.
Originally posted by Alfheim
For starters he is not much faster than Cap.
Please, for starters the stronger a muscle is the faster it moves. If SPidemran launched his 30,000 power into a jump he would clear some seroius room. He's so fast that characters have been unable to hit him when he's going all out, multiple or single. Like he would fight in this forum. His reflexes, equilibruim, agility, and speed allow him to do so, he is built for it, like a cheetah is built for speed.
Originally posted by Alfheim
For God sake , when they had that 7 point system cap was put one level under Spiderman.
Originally posted by Alfheim
In the Marvel RPG Caps agility was put one level under Spiderman.
1. Spiderman is considered the most agile character in Marvel, I assure you Cap will never move better than Spiderman on his best day unless some writer is at fault, cap needs more effort to do half of what Spiderman does physically.
2. Agility and speed are NOT the same thing.
Originally posted by AlfheimCovered already. Cap isn't 15-20x faster than a human at all, he isn't more agile than DD who (as much as you hate it) was considered Olympic.
Whats going on are these guys crazy?? He is slower than Spiderman but not by a huge margin.
Sorry.
Originally posted by Alfheim
He is onl greater than him by a big deal in strength!!!
And precog, range, speed, wall crawling, and stopping power due to velocity and speed.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Im sorry its rubbish because you're comparing humans in the MU to ones in the real world. I maen for crying out loud the humans in the Mu were experimented on by The Celestals animals were not.
Comics are still built around the real world, and by using this you are copping out by saying that Comics shouldn't have a logical comparison in a debate without PIS/CIS. These have forum modifiers, so they have to be potrayed more realistically as such.
Originally posted by AlfheimAll heroes do this, so I miss your point, he just isn't doing it here.
Furthermore if you look at the bio you used for cap it states in black and white that his fighting abilities give him the ability to beat much stronger and superhuman oponents.<He is extremely skilled in hand-to-hand combat,[B] sometimes taking on and defeating foes whose strength, size, or superpowers greatly exceed his.
[/B]
Originally posted by thedude1948You completely need to go study the rules. Now.
thats PIS/CIS!😄
Originally posted by AlfheimNo I didn't, I have no problem with Cap doing that, he's a cool character. He just isn't winning because you pasted that. ( I know you think he loses.)
Yes and thats the quote the C-Master used in the Cap vs Spidey thread. He completely ignored that and one of things he deduced was that......ok nevermind dont want to give them ammuntion to focus on.
A hero will [B]never permenantly kill Cap with a 1 hit, be it Iron Man, or a Mountain Shattering Hulk. Your argument is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, and you are taking my points out of context, when people do that it brings another side of me. Stop putting words in my mouth and stop assuming. Alfheim is getting a bit worse as he knows my argument at this point, and he's still taking it out of tangent.[/B]Cap surviving the punches is due to his durability and his fighting skill, he knows how to take punches and can roll with it to avoid permanent damage.
And he is a 7 in fighting ability (picking and choosing again?...yep).
When have I said you could NOT do the same? Could you please go and point that out for me, I'll be thoroughly impressed. I'll be more impressed if you tell me which of Spiderman's feats are not feasable for a 15-20 ton, 120,000 per meter tensile strength webber, 15 or more times faster, agile, and precognitive character, as opposed to what Cap gets away with, being a class THREE in all of his categories as a peak human (making him a 800 lb lifter in default).
Maybe you are just too dense and biased. Could you go and prove where Cap is stated at Superhuman anything? He is a peak human-the pinnacle of what a human can be. Not what you want him to be. Captain America is NOT bullet proof, so why in the **** is getting hit by guys like Hulk and Iron Man without dying? Explain that to me if you're so smart. 100 tons is 1/5 of a million pounds, and that's at the bottom of it. Iron Man and Hulk aren't.
We've already established that Spiderman holds back in his fights and that he isn't a killer, for anyone to say otherwise is ignorant of Spiderman.
Ridiculous argument, and I want Cap's "superhuman durability" I keep hearing about. Please.
Again I want you to go out and point where I've said this, please. The points that I've brought in are EASILY done by a person of Spiderman's calibur, I've proven that either way and you've simply ignored it (as you did with my martial arts evidence). You on the other hand are trying to argue a guy who isn't BULLETPROOF to take incredible amounts of force stronger than bullets with no problem, but he wouldn't be dodging them in the first place. Damned stupid fanboy argument.
Spider-man is only a 4 in fighting in his profile, so that shows he probably cant use his full power in his punches because he doesnt have enough skill to do so. Also why cant he dodge them? Combat-wise Cap is a genius, he can think before and predict his opponents next move.
He should have been dead, and he's not doing well, so what was your point of bringing it up?
Because we all know that Spiderman is a killer. roll eyes (sarcastic)
You haven't shown one way that someone is going to survive a multiton punch, it would utterly crack his skull. A peak human is a human at it's best and that's not even bulletproof (hell Spiderman isn't and his body is VERY dense). You are going to have to explain that one to me. But I know you won't, you'll just go on more assanine rambling.
Spidermans Durability is the SAME as Caps, they are both at 3. Cap is going to dodge and roll with the punches thats how. Just because Spider-Man is faster doesnt mean all the speed is going to translate into quickness in a fight that takes SKILL which Cap has alot more of.
1. I haven't and didn't start the "real world argument" you did, and it was flawed, because you started some stupid bullshit about Spiderman not being able to blah blah blah because it couldn't happen in the real world. Sorry it doesn't work that way, we accept them as characters and logic applies. What you don't understand, or would rather not accept is that debates NEED a logical grounding in them. You haven't seen me argue that Spiderman can take ridiculous amounts of force, simply that he could deliver greater foreces than Cap can take, hell, he can just drop a sub on him. You've shown that you know little of force, fighting, and real world logic anyways, and you're only contradicting yourself.2. Cap is a PEAK human, Spiderman is not.
your argument so far has been Spider-man punches Cap, he dies. Even though Cap is a way better fighter which Spider-man admits he cant fight H2H, you keep assuming that his strength and slight speed advantage is going to make up for it. You completely ignore the skill factor in a fight (more specifically a punch.) His strength and Speed isnt going to crossover 100% into his fighting ability simply because he doesnt have the skills to. Thats how it works in the "real world" 🙂
If you think a bit of skill will make up for such a shortcoming, you would be as ridiculous as saying a human beats and elephant or rhino. The difference in physicality is simply THAT big.
That is a stupid analogy, I am not going to even respond to this.....
'm not even saying SPIDERMAN could only do it, I'm saying that ANY skilled MA could do it. Hit him under the nose or in the temple he's out. I do fighting and I know all of the pressure points and nerve points in the body. Spiderman CAN knock him out much easier, and not have a guilty conscience about it.
Pressure points in fighting is Bullshit. It is a myth you cant focus on pressure points in a fight, especially when your opponent is resisting., 1 punch is not going to kill any resisting opponent, you are just spewing BS. In a fight you cant focus on punching a small area like the temple or right under the nose, you can practice it all you want in your "dojo" but in the real world with a resisting opponent it will do you no good. If any MA can kill cap with 1 punch than they can do the same to Spidey since they have the same durability (But a MA couldnt because in real world scenario even a 1 punch KO from a skilled fighter is very very rare.)
also Boxing > just about any martial art in punching skills in a real fight.
Originally posted by thedude1948Otherwise it's PIS right and you're just too in denial to admit it? Where is Cap rolling out of punches in these comics? Funny how I never see them, and if you think that he's rolling out of a multiton force punch from characters who can move faster than the speed of sound, then you are truly a waste of sperm. I don't see what's so hard to understand about this, why can't fanboys simply see this logic that a character who can level buildings can nail a peak human.
Cap surviving the punches is due to his durability and his fighting skill, he knows how to take punches and can roll with it to avoid permanent damage.
Originally posted by thedude1948What does this have to do with his durabity, and it only means that he has mastered many styles. Again so what, it's not how many styles you master it's how you apply just the one you use. All styles are meant to counter another style so you need a style to counter that. What MA fanboys like to do is use the fighting system to make up for RIDICULOUS shortcomings a character has. In a comic book the character lives because the writer wants him too, simple.
And he is a 7 in fighting ability (picking and choosing again?...yep).
Originally posted by thedude1948
Okay maybe I went too far saying he has Superhuman durability,
Then you know you're wrong aboutt he rest, he isn't taking superhuman force.
Originally posted by thedude1948
but he can mimic it due to his fighting skills
Originally posted by thedude1948These fanboy arguments are starting to make me laugh a bit. Do you know how hard Spiderman can hit, he went through Venom's durability and made him feel it. And then Iron Man's and Hulk's? Good lord.
and being able to take and roll with a punch (which takes skill.)
Spiderman is the better roller then, seeing as he moves better and has been doing it for... 3 decades, and since he has a higher aptitude in it... well... there goes your argument.
And again, where is Cap doing all this rolling that his worshippers keep talking about?
Originally posted by thedude1948
So nope he wont be dying from a punch by Spider-man.
That's right, he's going to roll from a shotgun-force style punch to the face, I would invite you to look up shotgun suicides at rotten.com, but I don't think I even need to do I?
Originally posted by thedude1948
Spider-man is only a 4 in fighting in his profile, so that shows he probably cant use his full power in his punches because he doesnt have enough skill to do so.
Punching is Power and Movment, Spiderman has a higher velocity as well.
Only a 4? That means he's skilled. It isn't really that hard to throw a good punch, and even at half it's power it's devastating, NOONE puts all of their power into a single strike as it takes their leverage off. But seeing as you know little about fighting anyways...
Punching is Power and Movment, Spiderman has a higher velocity as well.
Originally posted by thedude1948I can dodge a bullet, I didn't say he couldn't, only there's a difference in dodging and the marksman missing therefore.
Also why cant he dodge them?
Captain America isn't bulletproof, and Spiderman hit's harder than that, Cap's armor makes the bullet concussive like Spiderman's fist.
Spiderman on the other hand IS bulletproof, making Cap's match that much more ridiculous.
Originally posted by thedude1948Spiderman has been predicting for ages, and he will have a harder time predicting Spiderman's movements because he is more unorthodox and has his own style. Cap should be moving in slow motion to Spiderman. Too many people have been unable to see him in high gear.
Combat-wise Cap is a genius, he can think before and predict his opponents next move.
And his "predicting" still doesn't beat pre-cog.
Originally posted by thedude1948Spiderman's, Iron Man's, and Hulk's punches aren't punches you would roll out of, they are punches that send you flying, why do people bother posting this?
Or maybe he can knows how to take a punch and roll with it due to his fighting ability.
Originally posted by thedude1948This is taking the piss, it doesn't take bruce lee to hit hard. I can get a baseball bat and kill a person with ONE swing upside the head. I didn't have to train for years to do it, but I could. So why can't Spiderman's fist, which has the power of mortar rounds and can shatter concrete not nail Cap?
or because he doesnt have the skills to kill someone like Cap with a punch (Punching takes skill.)
Spell Plot Induced Stupidity with me please.
Even if the blow wouldn't crack his skull, his brain would rock at such a momentum and hit his skull that it would kill Cap, Cap's brain isn't super durable.
Originally posted by thedude1948And Wolverine is a 4 in strength with Spiderman but he lifts over 30,000 lbs less. Spiderman is more durable due to his muscular density, his skeletal density (which you totally ignored), his agility (which allows him to take less damage), his precog which even if he gets hit, it won't be by the full thing, and his flexibility, the more flexible you are the less likely you are to be injured.
Spidermans Durability is the SAME as Caps, they are both at 3.
Originally posted by thedude1948Riiiight, keep telling yourself that. He'll be flying more like.
Cap is going to dodge and roll with the punches thats how.
Originally posted by thedude1948*sigh* this really doesn't deserve a response, honestly, if Spiderman wanted to he could simply yank himself about 5 stories in the air.
Just because Spider-Man is faster doesnt mean all the speed is going to translate into quickness in a fight
Originally posted by thedude1948
that takes SKILL which Cap has alot more of.
Most retarded post award. Cap is not Ryu or Akuma, and cannot amp his ki/chi to superhuman levels.
This just shows how biased the posters are on the board against Spiderman. They make him look like some scrub when he's been fighting for decades, DECADES. He *utilized* a system based on being fast, it's what he relies on, his higher aptitude for power and speed. Cap on his best day will NEVER be quicker than SPiderman, ever. Spiderman is using a skill when he moves, skill is an application of something. I'm sure Spiderman knows alot more about movement than most characters in Marvel, in your same silly argument you could say Cap outran flash or quicksilver. Stupid, inane, and asinine. There's a difference in being *skilled* at something and being built at something. An olympic swimmer is probably one of the best in the world, but would it ever outswim a shark? No. An Olympic runner may try to run the best in the world, even be THE world's fastest, but will he outrun a cheetah? God no. We use skill and intelligence to make up for our shortcomings, but without technology we'll never, ever beat something that has a body BUILT for something. All Cap has is that he doesn't fatigue due to lack of lactic acid.
Now Go to YOUR room!!!
Originally posted by thedude1948No, that was what this discussion opened up about, Spiderman can win in stealth (which I mentioned) and by his webbing. But you are just going to ignore it to help your crumbling argument.
your argument so far has been Spider-man punches Cap, he dies.
Originally posted by thedude1948
Even though Cap is a way better fighter which Spider-man admits he cant fight H2H,
Originally posted by thedude1948HUGE strength, speed, webbing, wallcrawling, and early warning system will make up for it. When cap holds up subs and moves faster than several people can detect at once, you let me know. You seem to think Caps skill advantage (which only matters a moderate amount), will help him. So what if he has styles, his styles won't work as well against a "person" who can stick to walls. It won't.
you keep assuming that his strength and slight speed advantage is going to make up for it.
Originally posted by thedude1948You mean like the skill of applying movement, and the skill of staying out of reach. You've ignored the science of a punch, the science of proficiency, the science of damage... I can go on for days.
You completely ignore the skill factor in a fight (more specifically a punch.)
Oh and the fact that he holds back.
Originally posted by thedude1948
His strength and Speed isnt going to crossover 100% into his fighting ability simply because he doesnt have the skills to.
I think they will work fine as he's used his abilities in his fighting for years, but fanboys only ignore he holds back.
Originally posted by thedude1948
Thats how it works in the "real world" 🙂
Originally posted by thedude1948
That is a stupid analogy, I am not going to even respond to this.....
Originally posted by thedude1948
Pressure points in fighting is Bullshit.
No they aren't, I've used them myself to withhold a person I was fighting so that I wouldn't have to hurt them worse.
Originally posted by thedude1948That is what they're for stupid. People use them when going into war. You manage your leverage and you look for the opportunity to fight. There are so very many, but you wouldn't know. So speak for yourself. You look for an opening while covering theirs.
It is a myth you cant focus on pressure points in a fight, especially when your opponent is resisting.,
Originally posted by thedude1948
1 punch is not going to kill any resisting opponent, you are just spewing BS.
If you have a situation where the person is rushing towards you, and you hit them with your palm upwards into the nose... you don't realize how easy it can be to kill a person.
Originally posted by thedude1948That's why there are so many more.
In a fight you cant focus on punching a small area like the temple or right under the nose,
Bicep, if they're holding a weapon.
Throat
Under the ear.
Side of neck
Under the arm
Sternal Colum
Kidney's work fine
Hanging ribs
Thigh
Knee
Foot can work.
Achilles tendon with a knife
The heart
The stomach isn't one technically one but it subdues them fine.
They really hurt like hell, and can be fatal within a short period of time, espcially in the face, but those are the hardes to hit, with the torso and legs working in reverse order.
Then there's nerve points, but I won't go there.
Originally posted by thedude1948Well thank you for debunking the very foundation of your character for me. It's a point I used to stress back when I joined, that styles are very overrated, and a person who has fought more will beat a person in a dojo. That's why I care about fighting efficiency (that means the person who wins the fight is a better fighter, i.e Spiderman). And not the person who sat in Karate class. Which I really haven't done in about 10 years. I've done some militiary and other things. It's really about the fundamentals. Thank you for seeing this, you've really helped me out.
you can practice it all you want in your "dojo" but in the real world with a resisting opponent it will do you no good.
Originally posted by thedude1948
If any MA can kill cap with 1 punch than they can do the same to Spidey since they have the same durability
But with alot more effort as Spiderman's body is more dense, and he's harder to hit, but if done effectively from someone like Iron fist it can work.
Originally posted by thedude1948No... it's really not. Most fights are only a few seconds and hits, not what you see in TV and movies.
(But a MA couldnt because in real world scenario even a 1 punch KO from a skilled fighter is very very rare.)
Originally posted by thedude1948Overall yes, but as far as application of pressure and forces, no. I'm sure you know that though. 🙂
also Boxing > just about any martial art in punching skills in a real fight.
Originally posted by thedude1948or because he doesnt have the skills to kill someone like Cap with a punch (Punching takes skill.)
Spidermans Durability is the SAME as Caps, they are both at 3. Cap is going to dodge and roll with the punches thats how. Just because Spider-Man is faster doesnt mean all the speed is going to translate into quickness in a fight that takes SKILL which Cap has alot more of.
your argument so far has been Spider-man punches Cap, he dies. Even though Cap is a way better fighter which Spider-man admits he cant fight H2H, you keep assuming that his strength and slight speed advantage is going to make up for it. You completely ignore the skill factor in a fight (more specifically a punch.) His strength and Speed isnt going to crossover 100% into his fighting ability simply because he doesnt have the skills to. Thats how it works in the "real world" 🙂
Pressure points in fighting is Bullshit. It is a myth you cant focus on pressure points in a fight, especially when your opponent is resisting., 1 punch is not going to kill any resisting opponent, you are just spewing BS. In a fight you cant focus on punching a small area like the temple or right under the nose, you can practice it all you want in your "dojo" but in the real world with a resisting opponent it will do you no good. If any MA can kill cap with 1 punch than they can do the same to Spidey since they have the same durability (But a MA couldnt because in real world scenario even a 1 punch KO from a skilled fighter is very very rare.)
also Boxing > just about any martial art in punching skills in a real fight.
ok i've been reading this and i would stay out of your argument if it wasnt for a few things i would like to point out to you
1. spider-man would NEVER under any condition KILL ANYONE. To even suggest that he would mean's your looseing sight of who the charater is, yes it's debateable that spider-man has the power to kill cap but we all know he would never use it so stop sayin it. He's all about responsiblity we all know this there's no argueing that fact he would NEVER KILL.
2. Spier-man's speed and durablity are not the same as caps, whole i aree that 100% of true human potential would make captain america a low level superhuman by comparison to the rest of the earthbound mu charaters he's not in the same leauge as spidy in either departments. Spider-man is as durible as he is strong that's just physics his body has to be as durible as it is in order for him to utilize his strenght otherwise when he goes to lift a heavy object like a car or truck he'ld just hurt himself instead. Also spidy's speed is about as fast as you get without being classified a super speeder, i'm not sayin he can outrun speeding vehicles on foot or anything but he would definatly out run cap by a very large margin, he has the speed to back up his reflexes which brings me to my next point. For you to say spider-mans reflexes are slower than caps is just out right ignorant. based purly on reaction time spider-man is one of the fastes in marvel even without the spidersense (granted without it he would be a bit slower to react ) the spidersnes does more than alert him to the danger if it's an imediate threat lest say the rhino chargeing at him at full speed his spidersense would make his body want to move out the way. Peter has stated serveal time in the past that he has had to ignore his spidersense in order to do something else if he hadn't his spidersense and reflexes would have caused him to move out of harms way, in other words going just off instinct spidy's relfexes are almost unmatched, and when he's jusing logic he does slow down a bit but he's still far above cap.
3. The whole pressure point in combat situation is NOT BS. I can vouch for this personally. To say that means that you yourself do not have much combat experiance as a trained fighter i can tell you that that is what you do. Why do you think we spend all that time "training in the dojo" we are embbeding ourselves with mucle memory a highly trainted fighter doesnt even have to be paying attention to what he's doing if he's attacked because he has traned and conditioned himself the way he has his body will react in the way he's been trained, WHAT DO YOU THINK CAP DOES he is a highly trained martial artest it many not always be depicted in every pannel of every comic but every movement in his body is already a highly calculated move which is ment to leadhim into his next move and so on and so on it's called chain fighting it's the very reason why iornman recored all of his movements every blow has a precise target ANY REAL FIGHTER KNOWS THIS you dont just swing away randomly.
and to wrap it all up spider-man's body is a high preformance machine designed to react in a instant and move faster, his durablity is proporrtainat to his strenght, when he lets his instincts take over it's all but impossible to beat him, you take all of that power that his b ody is capable of and you ad on peter's genuis intellect and it has lead him to his own style of fighting (remember he had no fighing experiance prior to being spider-man) one that is almost impossible to predict makeing him seem even faster ( although there have been few people who by observation of his movements are able to read his moves giving them a slight edge in h2h combat with him, thoes people are CAPTAIN AMERICA, daredevil, wolverine, and the green goblin
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
What you are proving is that you consistently miss points and trains of thought. It doesn't matter how much "he's above an xxx" the fact is that he's PEAK human, he is.
Yeah but if you look at his feats alot of them can be considered superhuman
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No matter how many scans you pull up of him catching missles won't change that.
Did I pull a scan of him catching a missle?
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I counter every point, and just because I don't agree with it, doesn't mean I ignore it. I'm not obligated to agree with every thing you say, it doesn't work that way.
Im just saying you ignore important points thats up to you. *shrug*
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Pull out these strings of less popular people that have beat Spiderman in a fair 1on1 fight where outside intereference wasn't a factor, and that opponent was statistically the same as Cap, do this and I'll be uber impressed.
I will do no such thing. Im gonna bust my *** doing that so you can fob it all off. The fact of the matter is you said that the reason why Cap does well against Spidey is because of popularity. Taskmaster, Shang Chi and oh yeah Iron Fist as well have given Spiderman trouble and they are far less popular than Cap. You still got the audacity to still bring that up. The point is rubbish basically you're in denial thats why you want more examples.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Bullets and lasers are some of the biggest jobbers in comics my friend.
See what I mean.....
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I'm "coping" out because I'm sooo scared of debating with you guys... right.
Thats not actually what I meant...
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I didn't actually disagree, I agreed that it could be done in certain situations,
Yeah when under stress....nonsense so thats what keept him alive all this time.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
but he's not running faster than he throws his shield, sorry.
Well sometimes Spiderman does silly stuff too.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
How about this, he's PEAK human from now on, go it?
How about this, dont tell me what to do got it?
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He's once again peak human, and he's obviously going to do crazy things in a comic, since it's well, a comic.
Whatever...
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Alot actually like taking hits from Hulk and Iron Man.
Did I give you examples of Cap geting hit by Iron man. Doesnt logic indicate that eventhough Iron man was punching him that he was pulling his punches? He wants to hurt Cap not kill him. Did I ever use csans of Cap getting hit by the Hulk as evidence; As far as im concerned if it happens once or twice Cap just got lucky.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
1. You should really try dodgin bullets one day, it's not so bad because it relies on this next point.2. There's a difference between dodging and missing on behalf of the marksman. Spiderman dodges, if he would have stayed in that same spot he would have been hit, that is different from the marksman missing.
3. It's a comic and he's a hero, there have been average Joes who've done it as well here and there.
What a load of crap. this is how you dodge bullets in the real world.....you run for cover! This is how peak humans dodge bullets in the MU.
http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=liked5mz.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bdbdbd3kx.jpg
http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bullets11sx.jpg
Did you see what it says there? Iron fist sidesteps the bullets.
This is the sort of stuff that peak humans do on a regular basis, I did not use the word here and there I said on a regular basis. If you're average Joe where to dodge bullets like that he will die. The may call it peak human but the feats are superhuman.
You cannot learn to dodge bullets like that. Why do you think when people stormed the shoalin temples with guns, the monks got shot the **** up, the same thing happened in the boxer revolution. Maybe you should take a time machine and teach them how to dodge bullets.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Again I'm not saying Cap can't DO superhuman feats, only that he's not superhuman, there's a difference.
Im not saying to you that Cap can beat the Hulk or take a full punch from Iron Man, but im sorry he does have a degree of superhumanity.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
If Spidemran is fighting like a comic and not in this forum to the best of his abilities. Unless again you think a human beats a rhino or elephant, in which there's no more point in debating with you, because you would have proven yourself to be a fanboy.
Hello!!!!! You're problem is this you keep saying that cap is slightly above the level of an Olympic athelete. Are you aware eventhough those people arguing against me realised that peak humans in the MU are tougher than they are in real life, and therefore this should be applied to this forum...are they fanboys? One of them even said that a peak human maybe be able to lift 2 tons.
Of course CA is not on the level of Spiderman but to say he is just slightly above an olympic athlete even when the bio does not say that is downright stupid . Tell me does the bio say that he is slightly above an Olympic athelete...whats that no? You then see him dodging bullets and lasers on a regular basis sometimes using acrobatic skill and you came to the conclusion he is slight above an Olympic athlete....and you're telling me I got a problem?
Furthermore the Celestials have experimented on the human race, eventhough you're average human is not going to kick spiderman about they are all potentialy superhuman. Why the **** do you think Master Mold freaked out, I mean for crying out loud humans in the MU even if they dont become Dr Strange can learn how to have psionic powers. Then you want to compare humans in the real world to the MU????????
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Done with this, it's a waste of time.
I dont see you comparing Tony Starks intelligence to people in the real world. Ive told you this already if you were going to treat Tony like you're treating Cap then Iron Man should have no armour.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No.
Whatever.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Spiderman is rather tactical, but then again Cap isn't getting prep time for this match, it's a spontaneous, unheard of match with basic knowledge of each character. All the tactics in the world won't help me if I don't have what it takes physical or otherwise to consistently prove a threat.
Actually he does get prep because in the MU Cap has studied Iron spiderman. No im not saying this will make him win the fight , but my undertsanding is that the Cap in this forum will be the standard Cap in the MU. Sure Spiderman will have basic knowledge but due to the events in the MU Cap will have more. Spiderman's new suit is actually a recent addition but has become standard equipment.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
And Cap is much weaker than Spiderman everywhere else across the board than Spiderman is in fighting, Spiderman is a 4 in fighting.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
But the gap was huge, the next level was 900lbs to 25 tons. That's what matters.
Er from what I remember level 3 started at one ton then moved to something like 8 then level 4 started at something like 10 then moved to I think like you said 25. i ahve to admit Cap just scrapes in at level 3 but depending on where he landed in level 3 it may not be a huge difference. For example if he could lift 5 tons ( which he cant) level 4 would be much better but not a massive amount, but it is in this case.
As for his agility and when I mean agility I mean dodging there are no lbs and tons to compare what cap and Spidey do but we can see from the comics that Cap does similar stuff on a lower level, but of course you're going to ignore all this.
Now if you think one level is a big deal what about someone being three levels highier. his fighting skills are so great they act as a modifier on his other abilities.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Please, for starters the stronger a muscle is the faster it moves. If SPidemran launched his 30,000 power into a jump he would clear some seroius room. He's so fast that characters have been unable to hit him when he's going all out, multiple or single. Like he would fight in this forum. His reflexes, equilibruim, agility, and speed allow him to do so, he is built for it, like a cheetah is built for speed.
Er no thats not true. People who have big muscles can sometimes have there speed reduced in order to compensate for power. Yeah they can punch hard and lift alot but that does not mean that strength means more speed.. Also there is a technique to punching everyone knows how to punch but in boxing if you dont punch in acertain way it will reduce you're speed regardless of how string you are. Strength does not always equal speed.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
1. Spiderman is considered the most agile character in Marvel, I assure you Cap will never move better than Spiderman on his best day unless some writer is at fault, cap needs more effort to do half of what Spiderman does physically.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
2. Agility and speed are NOT the same thing.
Well im sorry in the Marvel RPG the ability to dodge came under Agility and for years they put Cap one level under Spidey.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Covered already. Cap isn't 15-20x faster than a human at all, he isn't more agile than DD who (as much as you hate it) was considered Olympic.
Where did you get that his bio? Thats why sometimes people dont use bios for evidence, regardles of wether they are rooting for Cap or not.
Sorry.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
And precog, range, speed, wall crawling, and stopping power due to velocity and speed.
Already gone over this.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Comics are still built around the real world, and by using this you are copping out by saying that Comics shouldn't have a logical comparison in a debate without PIS/CIS. These have forum modifiers, so they have to be potrayed more realistically as such.
I seeee....so when I said Spidey not using stealth mode was PIS I was not being logical? When I said Iron man had to be pulling his punches I was not being logical? When I said that Cap cant beat the Hulk I was not being logical? Im just a big fanboy.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
All heroes do this, so I miss your point, he just isn't doing it here.
No they do not. Its the martial arts superheroes who have a tendency to be able to hurt stronger oponents
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No I didn't, I have no problem with Cap doing that, he's a cool character. He just isn't winning because you pasted that. ( I know you think he loses.)
Yes you did! If you want I'll go and hunt it down, of all the bios in all the world you had to pick that one. If you dont anwser any of my questions answer this one. Tony Starks has genuis level intellect if you were to make him like a genuis in the real world would he be able to build his suit?
The whole problem is that even people arguing for Spdierman dont even use you're argument because its rubbish. A more realistic way of arguing is trying to deduce from the bios and the comics what level a superhero at even if it means they are far in excess of what humans can do. For example one person said that the reason why Iron man can do what he does is because that is simply his prescibed power, because if you use you're argument he wont even have any armour. So in other words you have to accept that on this forum humans are alot tougher
If you look at the bio you used it says this...I repeat....
<He is extremely skilled in hand-to-hand combat, sometimes taking on and defeating foes whose strength, size, or superpowers greatly exceed his. <
That can be considered his prescribed powers I dont give a **** about anybody else but the fact of the matter is he is so good at martial arts he can take on people like Spiderman.
I will say this. I will even say that Iron Spiderman wins 10/10 in his suit but im not having Cap being slightly above that an Olympic athelete and im not having that Cap cannot give Iron Spidey problems.
1. His bio says that he is above the level of an Olympic athelete.
C-Master said - He is only slightly eventhough it does not say that in the bio.
2. The comics show him consistenly dodging lasers and bullets.
C-Master said - Bullets and lasers and the biggest jobbers.
3. C-Master then gets a bio which clearly states in black and white that his fighting abilities are good enough to take on and beat some superhumans and is furthermore reinforced by the comics.
C-Master said - I didn't put the bio up (When he did, and still thinks that Cap is slightly above an Olympic athlete when the bio he put up says his skills are good enough to beat superhumans)
4. Cap can Spiderman trouble in the comics;
C- master said - It's because he is popular. I give examples of less popular charcters but then he wants more....
Conclusion anything that you dont like you make some excuse
Originally posted by lando005
ok i've been reading this and i would stay out of your argument if it wasnt for a few things i would like to point out to you
Originally posted by lando005
1. spider-man would NEVER under any condition KILL ANYONE. To even suggest that he would mean's your looseing sight of who the charater is, yes it's debateable that spider-man has the power to kill cap but we all know he would never use it so stop sayin it. He's all about responsiblity we all know this there's no argueing that fact he would NEVER KILL.
Cap would not kill ayone either and is capable of chopping off spidey's head or limbs. Obvously Spiderman is not going to stand still.
Originally posted by lando005
2. Spier-man's speed and durablity are not the same as caps, whole i aree that 100% of true human potential would make captain america a low level superhuman
C-Master are you reading this? Eventhough this person belives that Spiderman will have Cap he knows Cap is not slightly above an Olympic athlete.
Originally posted by lando005
by comparison to the rest of the earthbound mu charaters he's not in the same leauge as spidy in either departments. Spider-man is as durible as he is strong that's just physics his body has to be as durible as it is in order for him to utilize his strenght otherwise when he goes to lift a heavy object like a car or truck he'ld just hurt himself instead. Also spidy's speed is about as fast as you get without being classified a super speeder, i'm not sayin he can outrun speeding vehicles on foot or anything but he would definatly out run cap by a very large margin, he has the speed to back up his reflexes which brings me to my next point. For you to say spider-mans reflexes are slower than caps is just out right ignorant. based purly on reaction time spider-man is one of the fastes in marvel even without the spidersense (granted without it he would be a bit slower to react ) the spidersnes does more than alert him to the danger if it's an imediate threat lest say the rhino chargeing at him at full speed his spidersense would make his body want to move out the way.
Well this is the way I see it. Sure Spiderman is alot stronger than Cap, but in terms of reflexes when they are put into stats Cap is always one level behind. Sure Cap is level 3 in strength but he just scrapes in it at one ton so he is at the bottom level of 3. In terms of agility 5 (dodging, reflexes) if you compare Cap's reflexes and Spiderman's reflexes Cap's is not far off. So I dont think Cap would be on the bottom end of 5
Originally posted by lando005
Peter has stated serveal time in the past that he has had to ignore his spidersense in order to do something else if he hadn't his spidersense and reflexes would have caused him to move out of harms way, in other words going just off instinct spidy's relfexes are almost unmatched,
Yes but he does not go just off instinct. Cap has be shown to have low level pre-cog too.
Originally posted by lando005
and when he's jusing logic he does slow down a bit but he's still far above cap.
Yes he is faster but Cap is better at strategy everybody know that.
Originally posted by lando005
3. The whole pressure point in combat situation is NOT BS. I can vouch for this personally. To say that means that you yourself do not have much combat experiance as a trained fighter i can tell you that that is what you do. Why do you think we spend all that time "training in the dojo" we are embbeding ourselves with mucle memory a highly trainted fighter doesnt even have to be paying attention to what he's doing if he's attacked because he has traned and conditioned himself the way he has his body will react in the way he's been trained, WHAT DO YOU THINK CAP DOES he is a highly trained martial artest it many not always be depicted in every pannel of every comic but every movement in his body is already a highly calculated move which is ment to leadhim into his next move and so on and so on it's called chain fighting it's the very reason why iornman recored all of his movements every blow has a precise target ANY REAL FIGHTER KNOWS THIS you dont just swing away randomly.
Agree
Originally posted by lando005
a you take all of that power that his b ody is capable of and you ad on peter's genuis intellect
He is a genuis at Chemistry not martial arts or strategy
Originally posted by lando005
and it has lead him to his own style of fighting (remember he had no fighing experiance prior to being spider-man) one that is almost impossible to predict makeing him seem even faster
Is he a martial arts expert? He has his own fighting style but he is not a martial arts expert his fighting level is 4 for a reason.
Originally posted by lando005
and to wrap it all up spider-man's body is a high preformance machine designed to react in a instant and move faster, his durablity is proporrtainat to his strenght,
his durability is not in proportion to his strength. his suit maybe be bullet proof, but why the hell does he bother to dodge bullets and knives then?
Originally posted by lando005
( although there have been few people who by observation of his movements are able to read his moves giving them a slight edge in h2h combat with him, thoes people are CAPTAIN AMERICA, daredevil, wolverine, and the green goblin
Ahem!!
Im not even going to respond to your first post, you keep ignoring Cap's Fighting ability, He is one of the top skilled H2H fighters in Marvel and genius Combat strategist and you ignore it all.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I think they will work fine as he's used his abilities in his fighting for years, but fanboys only ignore he holds back.
This is a debating forum, follow my breadcrumbs Gretel.I've noticed none of the fanboys will, it kills their argument. That or they try to add weapons, which completely KILLS the point. I can go find videos of MA's trying to fight such creatures (hell even a gorilla which is only 5x stronger) and still lose. Why didn't that skill help them.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No they aren't, I've used them myself to withhold a person I was fighting so that I wouldn't have to hurt them worse.That is what they're for stupid. People use them when going into war. You manage your leverage and you look for the opportunity to fight. There are so very many, but you wouldn't know. So speak for yourself. You look for an opening while covering theirs.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
If you have a situation where the person is rushing towards you, and you hit them with your palm upwards into the nose... you don't realize how easy it can be to kill a person.
If you really think this is a plausible fight scenario you are a moron, people dont bumrush eachother in a real fight unless that person is retarded. When im making my examples I am considering that both fighters are at least somewhat knowledgeable in fighting.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Well thank you for debunking the very foundation of your character for me. It's a point I used to stress back when I joined, that styles are very overrated, and a person who has fought more will beat a person in a dojo. That's why I care about fighting efficiency (that means the person who wins the fight is a better fighter, i.e Spiderman). And not the person who sat in Karate class. Which I really haven't done in about 10 years. I've done some militiary and other things. It's really about the fundamentals. Thank you for seeing this, you've really helped me out.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No... it's really not. Most fights are only a few seconds and hits, not what you see in TV and movies.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap would not kill ayone either and is capable of chopping off spidey's head or limbs. Obvously Spiderman is not going to stand still.Well this is the way I see it. Sure Spiderman is alot stronger than Cap, but in terms of reflexes when they are put into stats Cap is always one level behind. Sure Cap is level 3 in strength but he just scrapes in it at one ton so he is at the bottom level of 3. In terms of agility 5 (dodging, reflexes) if you compare Cap's reflexes and Spiderman's reflexes Cap's is not far off. So I dont think Cap would be on the bottom end of 5
Yes but he does not go just off instinct. Cap has be shown to have low level pre-cog too.
Yes he is faster but Cap is better at strategy everybody know that.
He is a genuis at Chemistry not martial arts or strategy
Is he a martial arts expert? He has his own fighting style but he is not a martial arts expert his fighting level is 4 for a reason.
his durability is not in proportion to his strength. his suit maybe be bullet proof, but why the hell does he bother to dodge bullets and knives then?
do you really think cap would do that to him or anyone else....really
agreed
never said he did
agreed
agreed but peter is very crafty often coming up with plans on the fly
the same reason why wonderwoman still needs to....surface area apply enough force over a small surface area ie the tip of a blade or a bullet and it will go through that object. peter's skin is highly durable capable of withstanding much blunt force trama over a large area but if you focus that force enough over a tiny area he's just as vunerable as me or you
