Originally posted by ThePittman
OK, so we have “free will” and he doesn’t “make” our choices but he already knows what choice we will make because he is all knowing and all seeing.
If God is all knowing then does God have free will or does he just have to follow the actions he sees himself performing...
Originally posted by ThePittman
So being a good person all of your life you deserver to go to “hell” but you rape, murder and steal all of your life and then repent at the end and you are forgiven, seems like BS to me.
It is called grace (unmerited, undeserved favor). None of us "deserves" God's mercy, grace, or forgiveness. But if you repent of your sins (change your mind about sin), and turn to God sincerely, and earnestly (in Jesus Name), God will hear you.
.... Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool--Isaiah 1:18
But you have to believe that Jesus is the Son of God (God in the flesh), call Jesus your Lord, and believe that God raised Jesus from the dead and you will be saved.
Originally posted by Alliance
no...they don't. People will do anything under a gun.
In fact, let's have a thought experiment.
I give you an ultimatum: either become a Christian within twenty-four hours or I'm going to come to your house and murder you.
What are your choices?
1. You can become a Christian. No one is injured.
2. You can pretend to become a Christian. No one is injured.
3. You can run away. I might pursue you, leading to conflict, but, in regards to immediate consequences, no one is injured.
4. You can wait for me and fight. One of us is injured and/or killed.
5. You can wait for me and try to reason with me. I'm a crazed fanatical Christian, though, so you're going to end up dead.
6. You can combine any of the above, changing the outcome.
Seems like you have a lot of free will to me.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Seems like you have a lot of free will to me.
Hooray for ignoring options...and missing the entire point.
Lets do this step by step...hypotetically...assuming Christian dogma is correct.
1. We have free will.
2. This allows us to chose a religion.
3. The "one true god" wants us to be Christian.
4. Is we are not Christian (meaning the narrow definition of a "good" Christian) we get sent to hell.
But WAIT. We can choose any religion, but no matter what we choose, if its not Christianity...we "burn."
This contradicts statement 1. We cannot have free will in Christianity if this is correct. The choice is made under pressure.
Originally posted by Alliance
Hooray for ignoring options...and missing the entire point.Lets do this step by step...hypotetically...assuming Christian dogma is correct.
1. We have free will.
2. This allows us to chose a religion.
3. The "one true god" wants us to be Christian.
4. Is we are not Christian (meaning the narrow definition of a "good" Christian) we get sent to hell.
But WAIT. We can choose any religion, but no matter what we choose, if its not Christianity...we "burn."
This contradicts statement 1. We cannot have free will in Christianity if this is correct. The choice is made under pressure.
God is just. To be just means that some things are rewarded while others are punished. Because we have sinned, we must be punished--and that punishment is death. However, because God loves us so, He has sent someone to die in our place so that we might not suffer the penalty for sin.
You are given the choice of accepting the scapegoat to take death instead of you.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Way to ignore the post.God is just. To be just means that some things are rewarded while others are punished. Because we have sinned, we must be punished--and that punishment is death. However, because God loves us so, He has sent someone to die in our place so that we might not suffer the penalty for sin.
You are given the choice of accepting the scapegoat to take death instead of you.
It's hard to fathom that you really believe that. You don’t know, you believe that God is just. What if God was beyond just: something that we do not understand? What if people told you that, to keep you under control?
Re: Re: What does this mean to you?
Originally posted by JOE NUNEZ
I thought God was a good God, not an evil punisher..
God is good, anymore questions?
A good judge upholds justice and righteousness right? God is Judge of all the universe (higher than a supreme court justice). As Judge God must judge sinners and hold them accountable for breaking his laws (His Word). If God didn't punish the sinner for his/her sins then He would not be a good, righteous Judge. On the flip side God is also Love which is why He sent Jesus (His Son) to die for the sins of the whole world...man I just have to pause and thank God in my heart for His mercy....
God could have just thrown us all in Hell and locked the gates. But He didn't. He knows that He must judge sinners and hold them accountable but He loves us so much that He found another way to deal with our sins. But it involved a sacrifice: the very life of His own Son. God placed the sins of the whole world (those who have died, those living, and those who have yet to be born in sin) on Jesus and punished Him for our sins. Now that sin (our sins, not Jesus's sins because Jesus never sinned) have already been judged and punished God can extend mercy, grace, and forgiveness to anyone who asks for that forgiveness. But here is the only stipulation: since Jesus is the one Who did the suffering, and Who took our punishment for sin, then by virtue of this fact we must come to Jesus and ask for this forgiveness from sins. Otherwise we will suffer for our sins (because we choose to. Our sins have already been punished thanks to Jesus so there is no excuse for going to Hell when you die). Don't blame God. God made a way for us to skip Hell, if we reject it then we get what we deserve. The righteous Judge (God) has justly placed us where we belong.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It's hard to fathom that you really believe that. You don’t know, you believe that God is just. What if God was beyond just: something that we do not understand? What if people told you that, to keep you under control?
Originally posted by FeceManYou don't know this.
God is just.
Originally posted by FeceManNot true. Justice implies fair judgement. You do not have to punish to serve justice...you simply misunderstand the word.
To be just means that some things are rewarded while others are punished.
Originally posted by FeceManSin is an arbitrary concept that is arbitrarily applied. And no. Death is never an acceptable punishment. And its a big jump from punishment to sin.
Because we have sinned, we must be punished--and that punishment is death.
Originally posted by FeceMan However, because God loves us so, .Agian you have no proof.
Originally posted by FeceMan He has sent someone to die in our place so that we might not suffer the penalty for sin.He allegedly sent someone...who allegedly really sis not die. And its bull anyway, becuase that implies that no Jewsih folk ever went to heaven before Christ..
Originally posted by FeceManAgain, "Jesus" was not a scapegoat. Not by a longshot. And an all powerful god and free will cannot co-exist.
You are given the choice of accepting the scapegoat to take death instead of you.
Basically, you are so blinded by your concept of Christianity, which you are told, I serously wonder if you are even capable of free thought.