NBA discussion thread

Originally posted by tanjot
ok idiot, i did not say he is like wade as far as how good of a player he is...what i meant was he needs a good supporting cast around him to be more effective...and like you said he shot 44%, which is what i guessed he would shoot without him..and would you also tell me what miami's W/L record was during november?? for one..they gave the RAPTORS their ONLY WIN in that month, that says a lot about what miami can do without shaq in the lineup.

They were 9-6.

In the last 2 months, they are 14-3. Wade was the leasing scorer in 12 of those games. Shaq was leading in only 3. Shaq has barely done anything during this run, and Wade has done everything.

Wade is great with or without Shaq. But take Wade out of the line-up, the Heat suck. Take Shaq out of the line-up, they are still a contender.

i think if u took wade out... they wouldnt suck. shaq doesnt have to play like he used to because of the way wades playing. plus you cant underestimate payton, walker, mourning, j-will and posey. they're all capable of scoring 10-20 points (maybe not payton now, but hes still a decent backup pg). however, if vince was taken away from jersey? i think they wouldnt play as well... but they'd still be a decent team. kristic is playing well, jefferson would step up and kidd would just pass to someone else and hit them open.
what you have to think, is if carter played for the heat would they have the same record? i personally dont think they'd have quite so many wins... but if wade played for jersey i think they'd go up for sure. carters good, wades better. and wades already proved himself in his rookie year.

Originally posted by darth_royke
i think if u took wade out... they wouldnt suck. shaq doesnt have to play like he used to because of the way wades playing. plus you cant underestimate payton, walker, mourning, j-will and posey. they're all capable of scoring 10-20 points (maybe not payton now, but hes still a decent backup pg). however, if vince was taken away from jersey? i think they wouldnt play as well... but they'd still be a decent team. kristic is playing well, jefferson would step up and kidd would just pass to someone else and hit them open.
[B]what you have to think, is if carter played for the heat would they have the same record? i personally dont think they'd have quite so many wins... but if wade played for jersey i think they'd go up for sure. carters good, wades better. and wades already proved himself in his rookie year. [/B]

Yeah, I exaggerated by saying "suck" But they would probaly be maybe a little over .500 without Wade.

And I agree with what you said if Wade and Carter switched.

Originally posted by tanjot
ok idiot, i did not say he is like wade as far as how good of a player he is...what i meant was he needs a good supporting cast around him to be more effective...and like you said he shot 44%, which is what i guessed he would shoot without him..and would you also tell me what miami's W/L record was during november?? for one..they gave the RAPTORS their ONLY WIN in that month, that says a lot about what miami can do without shaq in the lineup.

Don't get angry Vince, we don't need you to start crying to mommy.

I got what you said, and I said that the claim of Wade needing a supporting cast like Peja was stupid.

Wrong. For one thing, ANY star player needs a supporting cast to succeed. Yao Ming has been putting up monster numbers these last few months yet his supporting cast ,with T-Mac injuried, is horrendous. That's why they are under .500.

Zeke showed their record wasn't bad, and that was with a bunch of new players trying to learn a new system. 44% is not a bad percentage especially when Wade is trying to fit in with new players. And again 27-7-7. Thank you and good night.

Stop saying Shaq has this huge part in making Wade better than he is. For one thing Shaq is not the same player he was in LA. While he is still the best C in the league, he can be defended easier than before and can't carry a team like before. Most importantly Shaq makes the role players better, not stars. Is Kobe doing bad without Shaq? NO, he's putting up the biggest scoring numbers since Jordan. Now let's look at Damon Jones. Damon was a little role player who could shoot and do nothing else. Shaq made him a lot better than he was since all Damon's shots were open three's. Now in Cleveland, Damon sucks because he isn't getting those same easy shots. Wade doesn't need open shots though, because he can create for himself or his teammates with or without Shaq.

Yeah so? Detroit was completely healthy when they lost to New York yesterday, an even worse team than the Raptors. That doesn't mean that Detroit is all of sudden not a contendor, or they suck. All it means is they lost to a bad team. It happens.

Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove
Don't get angry Vince, we don't need you to start crying to mommy.

I got what you said, and I said that the claim of Wade needing a supporting cast like Peja was stupid.

Wrong. For one thing, ANY star player needs a supporting cast to succeed. Yao Ming has been putting up monster numbers these last few months yet his supporting cast ,with T-Mac injuried, is horrendous. That's why they are under .500.

Zeke showed their record wasn't bad, and that was with a bunch of new players trying to learn a new system. 44% is not a bad percentage especially when Wade is trying to fit in with new players. And again 27-7-7. Thank you and good night.

Stop saying Shaq has this huge part in making Wade better than he is. For one thing Shaq is not the same player he was in LA. While he is still the best C in the league, he can be defended easier than before and can't carry a team like before. Most importantly Shaq makes the role players better, not stars. Is Kobe doing bad without Shaq? NO, he's putting up the biggest scoring numbers since Jordan. Now let's look at Damon Jones. Damon was a little role player who could shoot and do nothing else. Shaq made him a lot better than he was since all Damon's shots were open three's. Now in Cleveland, Damon sucks because he isn't getting those same easy shots. Wade doesn't need open shots though, because he can create for himself or his teammates with or without Shaq.

Yeah so? Detroit was completely healthy when they lost to New York yesterday, an even worse team than the Raptors. That doesn't mean that Detroit is all of sudden not a contendor, or they suck. All it means is they lost to a bad team. It happens.

yes i looked at ur first few words but i dont c necessary for me to answer back to something like that because it is pointless. now to the point..i agree with what you said about damon jones, but like many great players say, they would rather have a better record in the W/L column than a great stat sheet. yes kobe is getting it done, but they are no longer the team they once were with shaq. and with the heat, im not talking about shaq not playing for a few games, or month...i mean if shaq were not there at all.. and alonzo was the starter for 82 games, then wades numbers would go down for sure to pretty much what i said they would be.

Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove

Yeah so? Detroit was completely healthy when they lost to New York yesterday, an even worse team than the Raptors. That doesn't mean that Detroit is all of sudden not a contendor, or they suck. All it means is they lost to a bad team. It happens.

Exactly what I was going to say.

As for the Lakers sucking with Shaq and the Heat improving with Shaq, a big part of that is not because of Shaq the player, but because of Shaq the GM. Lakers did not just lose Shaq, they lost everybody but Kobe. Same with the Heat. The biggest thing that Shaq brings (this year) are players such as Mourning who want to play with a competitor. That being said, Wade can score no matter who is on his team. Its flat out stupid to claim anything else.

thats something we will have to wait and see.

I don't know why you might even think he would score less with worse people on his team. The worse the players along his side, the more the load he will have to carry. Just ask Kobe. I'm not saying its easier to score with worse players on his team, but he will score more if thats what his team needs.

what i mean is wade is yet to develop a strong outside jumper, and wade gets a lot of buckets in the paint mainyl because players are guarding shaq and have to second guess themselves before they cover wade knowing that he can give him the easy alley oop...that is why he has so many assists, shoots more free throws, and gets easier opportunities. if wade had a good outside jumper like kobe then we would not be having this argument. you do know that wade shoots only 14% from 3 point range right?? and he has had a few games where he has shot less than 35%,when alonzo plays well, meaning shaq gets less playing time. i think it was..2 days ago that he shot about..1-14 and had 13 free throws.

Originally posted by tanjot
what i mean is wade is yet to develop a strong outside jumper, and wade gets a lot of buckets in the paint mainyl because players are guarding shaq and have to second guess themselves before they cover wade knowing that he can give him the easy alley oop...that is why he has so many assists, shoots more free throws, and gets easier opportunities. if wade had a good outside jumper like kobe then we would not be having this argument. you do know that wade shoots only 14% from 3 point range right?? and he has had a few games where he has shot less than 35%,when alonzo plays well, meaning shaq gets less playing time. i think it was..2 days ago that he shot about..1-14 and had 13 free throws.

Didnt Carter do that all the time when he started with the Raptors? You know, drive to the basket all the time.
Also, I'm pretty sure Jordan, when he got into the league, wasnt an great jump shooter.

Its pretty much a given that athletic SG's like Jordan, Kobe, Vince, T-Mac (and Wade in a few years) have to change their game as the years go by. They all come in to the league dunking on everybody and tearing their knees to shreds, then it becomes apparent that they will have a very short career if they dont change their game. Jordan hardly ever drove the lane in the latter stages of his career, Kobe drives alot less and im sure if Wade wants to have a long career then he will work on his jumpshot and go to that more as he gets older.

Don't forget that Wade is very good at long jumpers barely inside the 3-point line, so he actually does spread the D. He's just smart enough to shoot within his range.

Originally posted by tanjot
so...you wanna talk about d-wade in his first year..so then y not talk about vince in his first year?? vince won the rookie of the year with what you know was obviously not a good supporting cast, averaging 18ppg and the only rookie to lead his team in scoring, getting over 90% of the votes for rookie of the year. i know you will say that wade was up against mello and lebron in his rookie year, but thats life. i "know" that if shaq were not in miami, wade's scoring average, fg %, free throw attempts, and assists would be much lower, and he would have half as many top 10 plays as he has now. now last year, without rj in the lineup vince still averaged 27.5ppg as a net. this season he is averaging 24 with him in the lineup because obviously rj gets his share of points. 27.5ppg to 24ppg is not a big difference which shows vince can get it done on his own, and vince has not had the opportunity to show he can play well without j-kidd because he has not been injured, but i assure you he can. peja stajokavic is like dwayne wade, he needs a good supporting cast to be able to play well and have noticeable stats. peja averaged 24ppg when divac, c-webb, and mike bibby were around him..when divac and c-webb left his scoring averaged dropped to 18ppg. the same will happen with wade which you will see one day once shaq retires. if it does not then you can laugh in my face for as long as you want and i wont complain.

well i obviously can't laugh in your face, but i do laugh at your posts...have you looked at wade's stats when shaq doesnt play, there actually higher in every category, and shaq missed alot of games every since his trade to miami, when shaq doesnt play wade plays better, when shaq plays wade gets lets selfish and is more of a team player, this is why your more likely to see wade go farther than carter

ok...so you truly think that without shaq the heat can make the playoffs?? and that wade can carry the heat on his back for not just a month..but the whole season without shaq?

Has it suddenly become difficult to make the playoffs in the East?

Originally posted by tanjot
ok...so you truly think that without shaq the heat can make the playoffs?? and that wade can carry the heat on his back for not just a month..but the whole season without shaq?

He did it his Rookie year and he's much better now than he was as a rookie. Plus he has a better supporting cast besides Shaq than when he did it two year ago (Zo, nough said).

don't forget Jason Williams 😱

Originally posted by tanjot
ok...so you truly think that without shaq the heat can make the playoffs?? and that wade can carry the heat on his back for not just a month..but the whole season without shaq?

1. The Sixers can make the playoffs in the East, so its gonna be easy for the Heat without Shaq.

2. He did it in his Rookie Year, so of course he could do it now.

Originally posted by koolruningz
Has it suddenly become difficult to make the playoffs in the East?

lol. ok. not it is not...but i will say this much, the heat would not have as good as a record without shaq in the lineup. if its only wade, gp, zo, walker, and udonis haslem then i say the heat are one of the lower seeds in the playoffs...5th, 6th, probably not 7th or 8th.

well who in the heats division would take over them? the nearest team is washington... and i dont think the heat would drop that many games without shaq. maybe 5 less wins? thats still 40 wins or thereabout, more than new jersey, cleveland or washington. they're still second seeds for me. indiana without the injuries and artest drama mite have been however.