well if you think nash is "overcredited" and the rest of the team is "undercredited" then i can sure as hell say that kobe is inbelievabely "overcredited" because he can score, but cannot lead his team, even if anyone says he is all they have, it was his choice to want to be the only all star on the team, and not want shaq around so he would be noticed more.
Originally posted by tanjot
well if you think nash is "overcredited" and the rest of the team is "undercredited" then i can sure as hell say that kobe is inbelievabely "overcredited" because he can score, but cannot lead his team, even if anyone says he is all they have, it was his choice to want to be the only all star on the team, and not want shaq around so he would be noticed more.
Jerry Buss is the owner of the Lakers NOT Kobe. It was Buss's decision to not give Shaq the huge contract that he was demanding (even though he had 2yrs to go on his current one) and he went with the younger star on the team. It may well turn out to be the best decision in the long run especially the way Shaq is declining and if he doesnt win another championship. Kobe did explore the FA market which all FA's do, but if you think thats how he forced Shaq out then you are seriously underestimating Jerry Buss who has dealt with all the Laker legends over the years and would not be held to ransom by anyone.
Kobe is in his prime, he is scoring at a high rate and if you watched any Lakers games you would see that he creates alot of open shots for his teammates, they just cant knock them down. As soon as they find their rhythm and start hitting those shots he's assists will go up, im guessing that is your definition of leading (at least when it comes to Kobe).
If you dont like Kobe personally (which is not unheard of) just say so but to say he isnt leading his team is crazy talk. He comes to play hard every game and is their most consistent player on both ends of the floor, his work ethic is second to none and he is leading a bunch of bench players (Odom and Mihm excluded) to the playoffs (at the moment).
i think nash is respected enough, and he deserves it. last year people said he was only good because of amare... now hes gone they're still saying hes only good because of marion.. hes good, full stop.
kobe, is also very good. hes leading his team to a winning percentage, which, being completely honest, i didnt think would happen. so i think they're both getting due respect.
anyone see shaq killing ben wallace last night? not only overpowering but spinning around him too... and the heat won, wade went crazy hitting some nice shots at the end. dont rule the heat out.....
Originally posted by tanjot
well if you think nash is "overcredited" and the rest of the team is "undercredited" then i can sure as hell say that kobe is inbelievabely "overcredited" because he can score, but cannot lead his team, even if anyone says he is all they have, it was his choice to want to be the only all star on the team, and not want shaq around so he would be noticed more.
I understand the reasons why people would think he's overrated. I don't believe he is but I certainly respect that opinion. Although I don't really see why whether or not he forced Shaq away figures into how good of a player he is.
Royke - I don't think anybody said Nash wasn't any good without Amare, but Amare still was a bigger part of the Suns' success last season. Most people believe that Nash is playing BETTER this year than last, which I agree. Yet even with Nash playing better, the Suns are way off course from where they were last year with Amare.
Originally posted by Myth
Royke - I don't think anybody said Nash wasn't any good without Amare, but Amare still was a bigger part of the Suns' success last season. Most people believe that Nash is playing BETTER this year than last, which I agree. Yet even with Nash playing better, the Suns are way off course from where they were last year with Amare.
So how exactly is he overrated? Without him, the Suns wouldnt be the same team.
And dont say its the system they have.
Yes, the Suns arent as good as last year. But the reason on why people say Nash shouldnt of gotten the MVP is because of all the other players are good too.
But now, since Johnson and Richardson gone, then Amare (3 out of 5 major contriubutors in points on your team), people are now saying well, Nash is overated because the team isnt as good as last year.
Sometimes that happens when three out of the top 5 are gone. Isnt it somewhat contridicting?
Nash has still played consistently good, averaging a double-double a game, and the Suns are still first in thier division.
Also, if you say Amare was a huge part of the success of the Suns last year, wouldnt losing your "huge part of success" make your team not as good?
If so, if the Suns lost Nash, and Amare was playing still, I think the Suns would be in a worst situation.
Originally posted by SmasandianAlso, if you say Amare was a huge part of the success of the Suns last year, wouldnt losing your "huge part of success" make your team not as good?
If so, if the Suns lost Nash, and Amare was playing still, I think the Suns would be in a worst situation.
First, they aren't as good. Not by a long shot.
Second, sure they lost 3 of their five main members, but lets examine what has happened since. Joe Johnson and Q. Richardson were mainly 3-ballers for the Suns. Sure they are better than their replacements in the line-up (Diaw and Bell) on an all-around level (especially Joe Johnson), but on the Suns, their jobs were to shoot. For what was needed, Bell and Barbosa have filled in nicely. As for Amare being gone, he was replaced by Kurt Thomas in the line-up who doesn't make it easy on his opponants as well. Not having Amare around also makes it so Marion gets more touches than last year who has stepped up to fill in those shoes. You also can't overlook Barbosa's vast improvements (who is running the game just fine when Nash takes a seat).
The problem is, this year people have already forgotten how good the Suns played last year and they believe Nash is keeping them at the same level this year. This is not true. 33-17 is making them way off pace from last years 62-20 record. Its like looking at the Chicago Bulls from 1993 and 1994. In 1992-93, the Bulls had Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen and had a record of 57-25. Then in 1993-4, Jordan retired and Pippen without Jordan led the Bulls to a 55-27 record. In Jordan's absence Pippen and the rest of the Bulls picked up their game to fill the void (in the regular season). Likewise with the Suns, Nash and Marion along with several others on the team have picked up their game to replace Amare.
Now, as I just mentioned, Nash has picked up his game from last year. He is definitely playing MORE like an MVP candidate. He hit a fluke year where really nobody deserved MVP so in the minds of many, he just happened to be the best for that year. It was more of a best of the mediocre players last year rather than somebody really giving an MVP performance. This year, there is more competition. Nash is not the only person to have picked up his game from last year. I just feel that there are more deserving players of the MVP award rather than Nash.
wats up with minnesota? they're going downhill... i do think kg should leave via a trade, maybe breathe new life into them. even my raps won last night, who now have a 20-32 record, which aint bad considering the nba rankings put us last in the nba predictions. i think they're about 15-15 in the last 30 games, which is pretty good. pity about the bad start!
Originally posted by Smasandian
So how exactly is he overrated? Without him, the Suns wouldnt be the same team.
And dont say its the system they have.
Yes, the Suns arent as good as last year. But the reason on why people say Nash shouldnt of gotten the MVP is because of all the other players are good too.
But now, since Johnson and Richardson gone, then Amare (3 out of 5 major contriubutors in points on your team), people are now saying well, Nash is overated because the team isnt as good as last year.
Sometimes that happens when three out of the top 5 are gone. Isnt it somewhat contridicting?
Nash has still played consistently good, averaging a double-double a game, and the Suns are still first in thier division.Also, if you say Amare was a huge part of the success of the Suns last year, wouldnt losing your "huge part of success" make your team not as good?
If so, if the Suns lost Nash, and Amare was playing still, I think the Suns would be in a worst situation.
i agree. stats can tell, look at last years w/l column stat. im not sure but im guessing it was something like...the suns are 1-8 without nash, and with him, they are 20-8... this was around the middle of the season.
nash is not only a good passer, he can deliver the dagger and did it many times last year in the playoffs against his former team, the dallas mavericks. personally...i still think MANY people miss em over there. lol. i would LOVE to see him play for toronto.
i dont see kg going to detroit... i dont think they'd wanna mess with the team chemistry. be an interesting prospect though. i can see the wolves wanting to give him up for someone younger... possibly a younger big man, like zach randolph, (dare i say it) chris bosh, dwight howard even. either that or they'll want a premier player instead... who could get traded though? iverson? maybe a couple of the nuggets? a lot of talk has been made about kenyon martin, nene and earl watson.
maybe new jersey, for either vince or jefferson, i remember the kidd garnet alley oops when jason was still on the west... would be sick. marion for garnett? dunno if it'd happen... but nash, kg and amare... i'm scared. kg and kb got a ring to it too, the lakers would love it... i just dont think they got the players to trade for him.
i dunno if nash will ever play for toronto, i doubt it. i think pheonix is where he started out, and he'll probably finish up there.
It would probably be one of those situations where the Wolves wouldn't want to give a Western conference team like the Suns KG. Amare and KG would be the ultimate line-up. I still could definitely see him going to NJ for multiple players. However, I don't see him going for Randolph, Dwight or Bosh. Not for Randolph because he isn't going to get much better and that would be a horrible mistake by the T-Wolves (one which I would love). I don't see it for Bosh simply because I don't see KG wanting to go to Canada. And I don't see Magic giving up Dwight anytime soon. He is already a monster and has so much potential for years and years. KG will start declining in several years and Magic won't be ready for a championship run yet. If it weren't for Wally Z going to Celtics already, I could imagine Pierce and a Celtic PF for KG, but not as long as Wally is there (although I'm sure the C's would accomidate KG if the case ever came up).
There was a 'Let's fake a trade' thing on ESPN, and one of the trades went something like this.
Miami Heat get: Kevin Garnett
T Wolves get: Chris Bosh, and somebody else I forget
Raptors get: a whole lot of people. I forget all of them but i remeber Udonis Haslem, James Posey, Jason Williams, and thats all I remeber, but I think there was 3 more players.
I would like it if that happened. Flash, Shaq, and KG = WOW. Chrish Bosh would actually be somewhere where he'll be known more because he is really good. And the Raptors, well, I guess it's an OK trade for them.
This was just a "What if" thing though. There is no chance that this would happen.