Chick Tracts and the Bible why the discrimination?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Excellent analysis of the situation.

It happens now and then

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God's law transcends human law in every situation. God's law is unchanging and superior than human law; hence, it is a better standard to live by. We make laws based on the majority vote, even if it is immoral (i.e. Jim Crow, Roe vs. Wade). Our feelings should not interfere with our resolve to do what is right in all situations. But many times we allow our feelings to govern our lives. We must live by a higher standard in order to experience God's best.

So, if God were to (and lets just assume for the sake of argument that there is no doubt at all that this is God saying this) make something like child molestation a pillar of the faith, would it then become morally ok to molest children, or is it a necessary evil for the greater good?

hay my piccy borked

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I never said that. Hey, believe what you wish or better yet produce a quote where I said these exact words:

You condemn Gays as disgusting sinners who deserve to go to Hell.

I hate how you deny what you've stated before. 🙄

Originally posted by inimalist
So, if God were to (and lets just assume for the sake of argument that there is no doubt at all that this is God saying this) make something like child molestation a pillar of the faith, would it then become morally ok to molest children, or is it a necessary evil for the greater good? [/B]

I hope you really understand what the word "God" implies.

The point is that there is good and there is evil. There is truth and there is lies. Yes, black and white.

Truth and good will always be truth and good. Lies and evil we will always be lies and evil.

Black will never be white and viceversa.

The above is truth, even if sometimes we cannot tell appart black from white, and we try to make everything grey, because is more confortable, suitable for society, so we do not "bother" someone else, etc.

Truth and good are not confortable sometimes. Sometimes are difficult to recognize, and most of the time we lack of courage to acknowledge them, since we prefer to live on own live "without bothering anybody, and with no one bothering us" because it is politically correct, it is up-to-date, etc.

Originally posted by darkfan76
I hope you really understand what the word "God" implies.

The point is that there is good and there is evil. There is truth and there is lies. Yes, black and white.

Truth and good will always be truth and good. Lies and evil we will always be lies and evil.

Black will never be white and viceversa.

The above is truth, even if sometimes we cannot tell appart black from white, and we try to make everything grey, because is more confortable, suitable for society, so we do not "bother" someone else, etc.

Truth and good are not confortable sometimes. Sometimes are difficult to recognize, and most of the time we lack of courage to acknowledge them, since we prefer to live on own live "without bothering anybody, and with no one bothering us" because it is politically correct, it is up-to-date, etc.

Some of the most evil acts have been done by people who believe like above. The problem is if there is a true absolute good or evil, you do not know what it is. The bible doesn't know; Jesus didn't know; I don't know, and you don't know.

Originally posted by darkfan76
I hope you really understand what the word "God" implies.

The point is that there is good and there is evil. There is truth and there is lies. Yes, black and white.

Truth and good will always be truth and good. Lies and evil we will always be lies and evil.

Black will never be white and viceversa.

The above is truth, even if sometimes we cannot tell appart black from white, and we try to make everything grey, because is more confortable, suitable for society, so we do not "bother" someone else, etc.

Truth and good are not confortable sometimes. Sometimes are difficult to recognize, and most of the time we lack of courage to acknowledge them, since we prefer to live on own live "without bothering anybody, and with no one bothering us" because it is politically correct, it is up-to-date, etc.

Prove that there is an absolute good and evil, and prove that you know the Truth from Lies.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Some of the most evil acts have been done by people who believe like above. The problem is if there is a true absolute good or evil, you do not know what it is. The bible doesn't know; Jesus didn't know; I don't know, and you don't know.

And some of the most evil acts have been done by people who doesn't believe like above.

So, the behavior of people who believes in something, or who claims to believe in something, makes that belief right of wrong?

If I say "Jesus is the a good example of Love for mankind" and then I kill someone, Does that make the belief wrong?

Using the acts or behavior of "believers", or of some believers to be more acurate, as an excuse to reject and dismiss a belief, is very confortable..

There is not problem. There is a true absolute good or evil. We know what it is in most cases. We just don't have the courage to acknowledge it. The bible shows what the truth is. The problem is the interpretation. Don't you think it would be a good thing that we have only one interpretation of the Bible?

Jesus, sure he knew and furthermore he taught us. And your argument itself is weak since you have stated as an absolute that "no one knows what is good", just because you don't know, or perhaps, you have put your mind and your heart in the situation of convincing yourself that you don't know and no one knows.

Certainly is confortable to think that "no one knows", so anything could be good or bad, and let's don't care too much about it, don't you think?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Prove that there is an absolute good and evil, and prove that you know the Truth from Lies.

Prove that there is not.

Prove that I said that I know the truth from the lies.

Originally posted by darkfan76
And some of the most evil acts have been done by people who doesn't believe like above.

You will have to give me an example, because I do not believe your statement.

Originally posted by darkfan76
So, the behavior of people who believes in something, or who claims to believe in something, makes that belief right of wrong?

You can know a belief by the people, so, yes; the behaviors of people reflect the beliefs.

Originally posted by darkfan76
If I say "Jesus is the a good example of Love for mankind" and then I kill someone, Does that make the belief wrong?

If other people do not reject your actions, then yes.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Using the acts or behavior of "believers", or of some believers to be more acurate, as an excuse to reject and dismiss a belief, is very confortable..

Sometimes pointing out the incorrect beliefs of others is not comfortable.

Originally posted by darkfan76
There is not problem. There is a true absolute good or evil. We know what it is in most cases. We just don't have the courage to acknowledge it. The bible shows what the truth is. The problem is the interpretation. Don't you think it would be a good thing that we have only one interpretation of the Bible?

You do not know what is absolute good or evil is. If you believe you do, then you are delusional.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Jesus, sure he knew and furthermore he taught us. And your argument itself is weak since you have stated as an absolute that "no one knows what is good", just because you don't know, or perhaps, you have put your mind and your heart in the situation of convincing yourself that you don't know and no one knows.

I say that the true nature of reality is beyond the understanding of humans. That means that any absolute truth cannot be known by you or me.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Certainly is confortable to think that "no one knows", so anything could be good or bad, and let's don't care too much about it, don't you think?

It is a higher standard. I cannot blame anyone else for the things I do.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Prove that there is not.

Prove that I said that I know the truth from the lies.

Are you a sock for JIA? You are using his childish tactics.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Prove that there is not.

Prove that I said that I know the truth from the lies.

I asked you first. You are making bold claims, I expect you to back them up. The burden of proof is upon yourself, not me.

Secondly, you said there is a definate Truth and there are definate Lies. Do you know the difference ? If so, please enlighten me.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You will have to give me an example, because I do not believe your statement.

Attila, Genghis Kahn, communists (atheist)

You can know a belief by the people, so, yes; the behaviors of people reflect the beliefs.

If other people do not reject your actions, then yes.

Sometimes pointing out the incorrect beliefs of others is not comfortable.

You do not know what is absolute good or evil is. If you believe you do, then you are delusional.

I say that the true nature of reality is beyond the understanding of humans. That means that any absolute truth cannot be known by you or me.

It is a higher standard. I cannot blame anyone else for the things I do.

Originally posted by darkfan76

What? Do not change my post in your quote. That is not what I posted.

Attila, Genghis Kahn, communists (atheist)?

So, are you saying that the belief in a god keeps a person from doing evil?

Sorry, Please ignore my previous post.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
[B]You will have to give me an example, because I do not believe your statement. .

Attila, Genghis Kahn, communists (100% atheists)

You can know a belief by the people, so, yes; the behaviors of people reflect the beliefs.

Not necessarily. The Christian belief is "you shall not kill". Do some christians kill? Yes. So, Do christians believet hat killing is a good thing or is is killing among christian commandments? No. Furthermore, Chrisitianity beliefs that killing is a sin.

So if there is a Christian who kills, should we conclude that all Christian are killers, or that Christianism asks people to Kill?
No. We must not confuse the behavior of some believers with the belief. And we have to be objectives.

If other people do not reject your actions, then yes.

You mean if no other Christian rejects the act of killing? Well, we know that it not the case.

[QUOTE]Sometimes pointing out the incorrect beliefs of others is not comfortable.

You got it. Sometimes is even more unconfortable to point out my own wrong behavior, even when I know that is wrong, and even when I believe something that I'm not following anyway[/QUOTE].

[/QUOTE]You do not know what is absolute good or evil is. If you believe you do, then you are delusional.[/QUOTE]

Never said that. But we all have naturally a set of values and understanding that you know for sure in most cases that something is right or wrong. You know for sure, that killing, and stealing are bad things, don't you agree?. For religious people this can be even more clear. Of course there is a set of difficult situations that are difficult to judge for individuals.

[/QUOTE]I say that the true nature of reality is beyond the understanding of humans. That means that any absolute truth cannot be known by you or me.[/QUOTE]

Some things are, some things are not. Of course. I know that my shirt is black. If you could see it you would absolutely agree with me that is black. That's an absolute truth. We both know that stealing is bad. That is an absolute truth. But my point if that even if you don't know it, and I don't know the absolute truth about something, that doesn't mean that truth doesn't exist, and that someone else could know it. Right?

[/QUOTE]It is a higher standard. I cannot blame anyone else for the things I do. [/QUOTE]

Of course. The problem is that we even ignore the few things that we know for sure, that are 100% absolute wrong, just because it is politically correct

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, are you saying that the belief in a god keeps a person from doing evil? [/B]

Not. The opposite.

- Some people does evil, even when they know it is evil, and they know they should not do it, because it goes against their values, their God, and their religious beliefs.

-Some people does evil, because they misunderstand the moral values, and commandments of their God, and their religous beliefs.

-Some of the Religions, ask for doing evil things, so followers do it.

-Some people who doesn't believe in God, doesn't have any religious beliefs, also do evil.

My point is we can't make a general statement and conclusion about a particular belief because of the acts and behavior of some people who share this belief.

-Some of them does evil aware that they are going against their beliefs..

-Some people has a wrong understanding of the beliefs they claim to have.

In the 2 cases above, we couldn't judge the belief itself as wrong.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I asked you first. You are making bold claims, I expect you to back them up. The burden of proof is upon yourself, not me.

Secondly, you said there is a definate Truth and there are definate Lies. Do you know the difference ? If so, please enlighten me.

OK. It is easy. You are using a computer. I'm using one too. That's an absolute true.

Am I writing in Japanese right now? Not . Absolute Lie.

You can agree. I agree. No problem.

Is there life in another planet? Two possibles answers. Yes or Not. We don't know for sure what the right answer is, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and that maybe someday we will know it.

Moral and ethycal stuff ain't that easy in many cases, but anyway, that doesn't mean that the absolute truth doesn't exist, and that one day we could be aware of it for sure, and perhaps we already know but it politically correct or a better excuse for my behaviour to think and claim that we don't know for sure.

I hope this explains my point.

Originally posted by darkfan76
I hope you really understand what the word "God" implies.

The point is that there is good and there is evil. There is truth and there is lies. Yes, black and white.

Truth and good will always be truth and good. Lies and evil we will always be lies and evil.

Black will never be white and viceversa.

The above is truth, even if sometimes we cannot tell appart black from white, and we try to make everything grey, because is more confortable, suitable for society, so we do not "bother" someone else, etc.

Truth and good are not confortable sometimes. Sometimes are difficult to recognize, and most of the time we lack of courage to acknowledge them, since we prefer to live on own live "without bothering anybody, and with no one bothering us" because it is politically correct, it is up-to-date, etc.

hey, your not JIA, and you didn't answer the question I asked

Originally posted by darkfan76
Sorry, Please ignore my previous post.

No problem.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Attila, Genghis Kahn, communists (100% atheists)

All of the Crusades; the Spanish Inquisition.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Not necessarily. The Christian belief is "you shall not kill". Do some christians kill? Yes. So, Do christians believet hat killing is a good thing or is is killing among christian commandments? No. Furthermore, Chrisitianity beliefs that killing is a sin.

So if there is a Christian who kills, should we conclude that all Christian are killers, or that Christianism asks people to Kill?
No. We must not confuse the behavior of some believers with the belief. And we have to be objectives.

Then why is the US killing people around the world in the name of the war on terrorism? Sometimes killing is the right thing to do?

Originally posted by darkfan76
You got it. Sometimes is even more unconfortable to point out my own wrong behavior, even when I know that is wrong, and even when I believe something that I'm not following anyway.

OK

Originally posted by darkfan76
Never said that. But we all have naturally a set of values and understanding that you know for sure in most cases that something is right or wrong. You know for sure, that killing, and stealing are bad things, don't you agree?. For religious people this can be even more clear. Of course there is a set of difficult situations that are difficult to judge for individuals.

These values are cultural and not always so clear. What about war?

Originally posted by darkfan76
Some things are, some things are not. Of course. I know that my shirt is black. If you could see it you would absolutely agree with me that is black. That's an absolute truth. We both know that stealing is bad. That is an absolute truth. But my point if that even if you don't know it, and I don't know the absolute truth about something, that doesn't mean that truth doesn't exist, and that someone else could know it. Right?

Are you so sure? If a man steals to feed his starving kids, is that wrong?

Originally posted by darkfan76
Of course. The problem is that we even ignore the few things that we know for sure, that are 100% absolute wrong, just because it is politically correct

Right or wrong is relative.

[QUOTE ]Originally posted by Shakyamunison
[B]No problem. [/QUOTE]

[All of the Crusades; the Spanish Inquisition.

You see, that's exactly my point. Among religious people, among christians, there will be always good an bad people. As there is good and bad people among non-religious people. You can't judge religions or atheism for the behaviour of some people.

On the other hand, you should expand your sources. The first crusades (the real ones, not the Hollywood version) were lead to protect Christians from Muslims, and to protect the Holly places. After that it degenerated, granted, and that were many abuses and killing. The original intention was good, but when many kings and European Lords took the lead moved by greed, crusades became something very different from the original intention.

Spanish inquisition as well, the original intention was good, especially considering that most of Spain was invaded by the muslims by the time. But that's another topic.

We must judge by their teachings, and beliefs. Among believers, the good people is always more than the bad people, but these are more visible, especially for non-believers.

Then why is the US killing people around the world in the name of the war on terrorism? Sometimes killing is the right thing to do?

I should have been more precise. Killing for greed, envy, hate will always be evil and I think we can agree.

In cases like the war (a fair war, for fair reasons), or when you are legitimately defending yourself or your family is a different thing, and we can agree that regardless killing itself is not a good thing, and will never be, the reason or motivation to do it is legitimate.

These values are cultural and not always so clear. What about war??

The more important values are always the same, and do not change that much: Respect, love, truth. War is not a value. War is a mean to obtain something by force. What you want to obtain, and the reasons to do it is what we should put in the scale.

Are you so sure? If a man steals to feed his starving kids, is that wrong?

You see there are two actions here. (1) Steal and(2) Feeding the starving kids. (1) is and will always be bad (2) Is good.

Even though you did it for a good reason, you are still responsible for an evil action. The fact that the food yu stole was to feed your kids, doesn't make the act of stealing good.

Right or wrong is relative.

I hope I have made myself clear. Right or wrong are not relative.
What is right is right and wrong is always wrong. Of course there are circunstances, motivations, reasons that legitamate some actions intrinsically bad and that somehow lessen the responsability for it.