Originally posted by siriuswriter
Okay, JIA. I HAVE had a real-life near-death experience, so I don't have to link to anything. I'm not getting this from anyone else but myself. This is MY TRUE WITNESSING ACT.I'm not going to give too many details, because they're not really your business, but I was in the hospital, in a lot of pain and the doctors didn't know what to do next. I don't know how long it lasted, I was a minor and the doctors told my mother, and I've asked her about it, but she refuses to tell me, so I guess that's one thing I don't know. I was 17 when when I had this experience.
I don't remember a lot. What I DO remember is a feeling of floating, which makes sense because I was on a lot of pain medication, which sometimes made em feel that way. I sensed things, more than physically seeing them. But what I sensed/saw was my family standing around me, looking down at me so I could see their faces. Both of my dad's parents are dead, but they were there. They were the only "dead people" that I pictured. The rest of my family are still alive. When I came out of it, it seemed like a pleasant memory. Of course, I didn't much think about it because when they brought me back, there was a oxygen tube down my throat and a whole bunch of doctors and nurses standing around me. And then I had the pleasure of processing the fact that I had almost left life.
It was only after that, a long time after, that I was able to really think about it. I dream about it sometimes. They're nightmares.
By telling you all this, my point is that, while I am not a Christian, I believe in being a spiritual person. I choose not to be religious because, in my opinion, religion has too much dogma, and true meaning often gets tangled in it.
I'm also making the point of, at least, with my experience, my time "out" was very fuzzy and not at all certain. The person in your video can recall minute details, and remember what people said. Again, from what I remember, it was like a very very fuzzy dreamstate, I can only remember the gist of it...
I don't expect this post to change your mind, but maybe it can serve as a reminder that maybe people shouldn't believe everything they read/hear/see, especially when it's someone else's account. My point is... even if something is in line with your beliefs, you should still question it, because whoever is in charge up there gave you your brain to think, and not to blindly take everything for truth.
When a person dies he/she does not skip a beat in terms of thought processes, memories, will, etc.
You retain everything about you (i.e. your personality, identity, etc.) because you have a soul.
Your soul is that aspect of your three-fold nature that makes you you, and distinguishes you from someone else.
That is why a person is able to recall details of their death vividly.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonHopefully I can keep it up for as long as possible.
You are also renewing yourself.
Originally posted by siriuswriterThe point I was making about imagination inflation is that it is possible most of this guy's testimony was made up - but he literally believes it. Maybe he added false episodes to his long term memory.
Dolos : I'm sorry, what is your point about brain distortion?
Perhaps you didn't, and maybe that's why your recall isn't as in depth as his was.
Or perhaps not.
We're learning about this stuff in basic beginner's psychology.
Dolos, you don't need to tell me that - I have a hard time believing what JIA's guy said is true as well. I have a friend who was officially dead for three minutes [serious injury at a football game] and he doesn't remember anything. There was damage done to his brain though, he had to relearn how to talk and walk and all of it.
I DO know the brain does strange and wonderful and horrible things when it's under extreme stress
My reason for posting is that I was trying to make JIA think, instead of just negating his position. People don't respond to well to "no, that's not it" without any qualifying remarks. That's what JIA does, he says "No, no. You're wrong, you're all wrong." I don't believe that kind of discussion generates anything but confusion and malice.
Originally posted by siriuswriter
By telling you all this, my point is that, while I am not a Christian, I believe in being a spiritual person. I choose not to be religious because, in my opinion, religion has too much dogma, and true meaning often gets tangled in it.[...]
I don't expect this post to change your mind, but maybe it can serve as a reminder that maybe people shouldn't believe everything they read/hear/see, especially when it's someone else's account. My point is... even if something is in line with your beliefs, you should still question it, because whoever is in charge up there gave you your brain to think, and not to blindly take everything for truth.
👆
I have a lot of respect for you for what you've said here. Thank you.
Stealth Moose - Thank YOU for taking the time for reading and understanding.
Shaky - That makes a lot of sense - what you base your life around is often what you think about the most.
JIA - Again, I'm not asking you to comment on the experience. I know what you believe happened. I'm asking you to look at the points I made, and TRY to think about them. That is all.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonIndeed. One's belief system shapes how one experiences these phenomena. "Filtered" through different people, the common "deep structure" takes on different "surface structures."
Alone with some people who remember Christian imagery, there are others that have no memory, like you mentioned, and other who remember other religious imagery. For example, Hindus who remember Hindu imagery, and Islamists who remember Muslim imagery.
Originally posted by Mindship
Indeed. One's belief system shapes how one experiences these phenomena. "Filtered" through different people, the common "deep structure" takes on different "surface structures."
However, an underlying deep structure is no proof of heaven. Instead it is a reflection of the structure of the brain of humans.
Phosphenes (I believe they're called) reflect the common deep structure of the eye. You, myself, a bird and an alligator all share the same physical deep structure of also, say, digestion, but how the process manifests in each of us is not exactly the same (different surface structures).
On the mental-symbolic level, the deep structure of "goodbye" takes on different surface structures, eg, au revoir, sayonara, etc. (This is not to be confused with the more formal definitions Chomsky uses in his transformational grammar).
Consider a hierarchy of deep structures, from the physical level to even the higher, transcendent levels as long as they are levels of form. Obviously, this couldn't be applied to the formless level.
But again, the Big Q is: do these higher levels exist (and are filtered through the brain), or are they manufactured entirely by the brain?
Gonna have to meditate on that...
Originally posted by Mindship
Phosphenes (I believe they're called) reflect the common deep structure of the eye. You, myself, a bird and an alligator all share the same physical deep structure of also, say, digestion, but how the process manifests in each of us is not exactly the same (different surface structures).On the mental-symbolic level, the deep structure of "goodbye" takes on different surface structures, eg, au revoir, sayonara, etc. (This is not to be confused with the more formal definitions Chomsky uses in his transformational grammar).
Consider a hierarchy of deep structures, from the physical level to even the higher, transcendent levels as long as they are levels of form. Obviously, this couldn't be applied to the formless level.
But again, the Big Q is: do these higher levels exist (and are filtered through the brain), or are they manufactured entirely by the brain?
Gonna have to meditate on that...
I believe that the higher level does exist (see Buddhahood), but ultimately, I don't think it matters. What we experience to us is real rather it is an illusion or not.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Well, when I rub my eyes I see geometric shapes. When you rub your eyes, you also see the same shapes. Are we both seeing into another realm, or are we seeing something more fundamental about our eyes.
When I rub my eyes I see this:
But really, Mindship has a good point; humans filter data through their belief systems and this in turn can lead to a sort of confirmation bias. Knowledge of God, who is intangible and unable to be examined, claims knowledge outside of human perception, which is as valid as Russell's teacup:
Originally posted by siriuswriter
Stealth Moose - Thank YOU for taking the time for reading and understanding.Shaky - That makes a lot of sense - what you base your life around is often what you think about the most.
JIA - Again, I'm not asking you to comment on the experience. I know what you believe happened. I'm asking you to look at the points I made, and TRY to think about them. That is all.
I did look at your points that you made, and think about them.
However, my worldview dictates how I interpret what you experienced.
I don't believe in NDEs.
I believe that a person is either alive (as you and I are currently), or dead like Don Piper was after his Ford Escort was run over by an 18 wheeler.
There's no gray area.