Wonder Girl vs. Spider-Man (Classic)

Originally posted by rotiart
No no... good work. I actually didn't know these instances you refer to.

You have to understand I'm going by the spiderman references I know, and the highest durability character offhand he's fought I can think of is hulk, juggernaut and rhino... of those 3, his attacks have very little effect.. still these could be considered low end showings... while yours would be considered high end.

Juggernaut for most of his career was treated as completely invulnerable to physical force. Spidey has hurt and in fact beaten The Hulk before. He came up even with the Grey Hulk. The Rhino? He's beaten Rhino to a PULP before, in SSM#191. He also KOed Rhino with one bad arm, while exhausted back in ASM#280.

Originally posted by rotiart
If you have any more references bring them up. You could eventually overturn the spiderman vs Firelord as PIS... and we'd have to eventually use something else as our example.

I did this at CBR once before and got banned for it. But basically, Spidey has showings against Firelord, The Silver Surfer, Thor, Namor (several times), Wrecker, Thunderball w/ full Norn power, Titanium Man, Starhawk, Crimson Dynamo, She-Hulk, Thing, Sasquatch, Blastaar, Iron Man, etc. that prove he can consistently affect people around class 100 in durability, with enough hits.

Originally posted by rotiart
I generally think of pis stories... like the FF4 comic with Thing sitting in a bar, talking to electro (though he didn't know it at the time) and spiderman was fighting hulk... and got hulk to run into a building... collapsing it... and the building... falling on hulk.. knocked hulk out...

Thats an example of PIS... as its been shown hulk's come out of worst hits... example taking a full on nova blast from human torch and manhandling thing like it was nothing in a different recent comic.

Sure, although the thing is that different writers feel top tiers have different power levels. One writer may want to see top tiers shoving planets around, while another may prefer they struggle with buildings. I think it's more of the hiearchy presented that matters.

Originally posted by rotiart
I'd say the firelord vs spiderman is still PIS... cause firelord just stood there, and took every hit and got knocked out... saying that a guy that can withstand the heat and gravity of the center of the sun... gets knocked out by a guy that has problems lifting vans...
and does nothing against it...

Spidey's battered people like Thor 2, Surfer, and Namor nearly unconscious before. The reason he did nothing against it is because he got caught off guard and Spidey launched a desperate speed-blitz. He lacked the time to mount a proper offense. In a rematch, he'd know better, and stop it with energy powers as Thor 2 did.

Originally posted by rotiart

Anyone got scans of those spiderman high showings? [/B]

Well, I've lost track of most that I've posted over the years. Here are some scans that other people posted which were easy to find:

Spidey vs. symbiote-possessed Surfer:

http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=43119qq.gif
http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=43129dd.gif

Spidey brutalized Rhino:

http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/06a9756c96.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/b70e25c9a0.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/145b4bbd5c.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/c61707efbd.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/e1d6c51287.jpg

Spidey vs. Thor 2:

http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44718.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44801.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44802.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44803.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44804.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44805.jpg

Spidey vs. Namor:

http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21114dc.gif
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21123ao.gif
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21131qy.gif
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21149ug.gif
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21158tl.gif
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21165wx.gif

Spidey owns Titania back when she had respect:

http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=25ju.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=331wz.jpg

Takes a pounding from Juggy:

http://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spidermanjuggy7ec.jpg

Some of the others, I'd have to DL. I do have a scanner, but I'm missing the chord to link it to my computer. I'll have to get a new one soon.

I could provide # if that helps.

The hell?!

Didn't realize this would be so popular.

I haven't had a thread this successful in a very long time....

If Spidey goes into that hit and run/dodge tactic and trusting his Spider Sense I see WG getting her ass handed to her.

For the record, I like Wonder Girl too. I find her much more interesting than Wonder Woman. I just don't think she had the skill and experience neccessary to win a majority, at least pre-OYL.

Experience-wise, she's significantly lower than Spider-Man. She's faced gods, the underworld and cosmic beings since she was about 11 years old. She's seventeen now.

Skillwise, that's debatable. She's constantly been trained not only by Artemis, or Diana or Hipployta but ALL the Amazons. She got the Amazon training treatment and they are HARDCORE. In one issue they threw poor Cassie into a pit full of Harpies (her mother had touched her earlier thus depriving her of her powers for a short time) with only a dagger to defend herself. She's certainly no slouch when it comes to combat. As an Amazon, she's cool, cold and calculating in combat and unlike Diana she doesn't hold back from the start.

I would give Cassie the win 7/10. She certainly doesn't possess the experience of Spider-Man, but she's too strong and her durability has stood up to gods and a PC Kryptonian. Spidey will get the majority of the hits in (many will be deflected by Cassie's superior speed; he's fast but Cassie can deflect lasers at point blank range...) but Cassie only needs to connect (and despite his Spider-Sense as well as reflexes, some WILL connect due to her faster than sound blows...) to defeat him.

The webbing will be a major annoyance to Cassie though....

Everyone handles lasers at point blank range. Spidey's dodged automated lasers at point blank range without his spider-sense. Spidey's actually fought so fast that people couldn't see him. I don't see her fighting Speed Demon and coming out even speed-wise as Spidey did in Thunderbolts recently.

As for skill, I was mainly referring to tactical skills, like Cap. Because of Spidey's insane combat speed, she'd have to manuever him into most hits the way Cap and Deathstroke do. It's happened to him before, but not that often. I tend to give Spidey good odds against bricks because of this.

Anyway, I think it's pointless at this point to debate majorities in regards to Spidey vs. anyone with above class 50 strength. It doesn't really bother me that most people will always say any class 90+ brick beats him. I'm just pointing out that he has an established history of hurting and holding his own with this level of foe.

dispite what SOME people my say spider-man is capable of beating class 100 fighters the firelord fight as unlikely as it was, was possible mind you if there was ever a rematch firelord would burn him soo bad there wont be any ashes but it's already been proven 99 times out of 100 spider-man CAN take down a class 100 and that's not pis

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Everyone handles lasers at point blank range. Spidey's dodged automated lasers at point blank range without his spider-sense. Spidey's actually fought so fast that people couldn't see him. I don't see her fighting Speed Demon and coming out even speed-wise as Spidey did in Thunderbolts recently.

As for skill, I was mainly referring to tactical skills, like Cap. Because of Spidey's insane combat speed, she'd have to manuever him into most hits the way Cap and Deathstroke do. It's happened to him before, but not that often. I tend to give Spidey good odds against bricks because of this.

Anyway, I think it's pointless at this point to debate majorities in regards to Spidey vs. anyone with above class 50 strength. It doesn't really bother me that most people will always say any class 90+ brick beats him. I'm just pointing out that he has an established history of hurting and holding his own with this level of foe.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
smvsfl fights where characters do not fight to the best of teir abilties are not consdierd cannon in this forum

Powerlevel wise... when people like shehulk... can't even hurt a guy like Surfer... but spiderman can... and his strength is 2 or 3 tiers below she hulks... Then you start to say... wtf?

That She-Hulk thing was seriously off. Vision, Thing, Ganymede, Midnight Sun, Super-Skrull, Dracula, Iron Man, etc. have hurt Surfer just fine.

Spider-Man, in fact, knocked Surfer down (though didn't neccessarily hurt him) with one hit in their original Lee/Buschema fight from the Silver Age. Spidey's hits did clearly affect Surfer when Norrin was possessed by Carnage in Defalco's second ASM run, as well as in Webspinners#4-5.

Originally posted by rotiart
Powerlevel wise... when people like shehulk... can't even hurt a guy like Surfer... but spiderman can... and his strength is 2 or 3 tiers below she hulks... Then you start to say... wtf?

actually i was referring to the surfer with carnage... that spiderman was beating on...

and the hulk that spiderman was beating on... but Thing has hard times hurting...

its... its... its wtf.

Originally posted by rotiart
actually i was referring to the surfer with carnage... that spiderman was beating on...

and the hulk that spiderman was beating on... but Thing has hard times hurting...

its... its... its wtf.

Here's the other Thor instance. I'd say that this one actually IS serious jobbing (I don't really feel that way about Firelord), but it still happened and is part of the average:

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
For the record, I like Wonder Girl too. I find her much more interesting than Wonder Woman. I just don't think she had the skill and experience neccessary to win a majority, at least pre-OYL.

Oh and I'm not saying Spideyu would not win a fight.
I just think WG would win the maority think I said at the begining of this thread that she would win 8/10 times which I think is a fair assement.

Originally posted by Draco69
Experience-wise, she's significantly lower than Spider-Man. She's faced gods, the underworld and cosmic beings since she was about 11 years old. She's seventeen now.

Skillwise, that's debatable. She's constantly been trained not only by Artemis, or Diana or Hipployta but ALL the Amazons. She got the Amazon training treatment and they are HARDCORE. In one issue they threw poor Cassie into a pit full of Harpies (her mother had touched her earlier thus depriving her of her powers for a short time) with only a dagger to defend herself. She's certainly no slouch when it comes to combat. As an Amazon, she's cool, cold and calculating in combat and unlike Diana she doesn't hold back from the start.

I would give Cassie the win 7/10. She certainly doesn't possess the experience of Spider-Man, but she's too strong and her durability has stood up to gods and a PC Kryptonian. Spidey will get the majority of the hits in (many will be deflected by Cassie's superior speed; he's fast but Cassie can deflect lasers at point blank range...) but Cassie only needs to connect (and despite his Spider-Sense as well as reflexes, some WILL connect due to her faster than sound blows...) to defeat him.

The webbing will be a major annoyance to Cassie though....

That sounds right. 👆

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Spidey also KOed Thor in WOS#105 by using the momentum of Thor and some other heroes against each other. In fact, his wed-sheild blocked a shot from Mjolnor in that issue.

Spidey also speed-blitzed the Eric Masterson Thor and nearly KOed him before he saved himself with lightning in Thor#448. But I know these are both gonna get written off as "SvFL." No matter how consistent his ability to hang with these beings is.

Spidey has blitzed

Absorbing man
Hulk
Firelord
Masterson Thor
and I want to say Juggernaut

Spidey's dodged lasers (spidey sense as well as reactions)
caught bullets
etc etc he's a quick one.

I think Spidey definitely has what it takes to win the slight majority here. Sure, he's not as strong, or as durable. But his vast experience, superior reflexes, spider-sense, superior agility, super-strong webbing, superior fighting-speed, and resourcefulness can grant him the victories he needs.