Confederate battle flag

Started by Alliance6 pages
Originally posted by MJOILNIR
But thats exactly what Im casting this as. I made that point clear from the get. Talking about my family cematary 😕 And one last time as I have said several times I DO NOT DISPLAY IT. Can I make it any more clear than that. The only battle flag in my possesion is on a tombstone 🙁

And as I said...if its used in hisotrical context its fine, (menaing it was a permenant part of some sort of historical strucutre or document.) I'm not gonna come down and sand off the face of the tombstone. 😆

Originally posted by MJOILNIR
Im glad you can so easily disbelieve someone you have never meet. You must be a hell of a man being able to do that. I for one cant tell if someone is sincere or not thru a comp screen 🙁 Whats your secret? Telepathy?

hold on, im busy waving around this nazi flag...you know, for the honored dead who sacrificed their lives. it wasnt all about the damn holocaust, you know.
*goose steps*

Originally posted by Alliance
And as I said...if its used in hisotrical context its fine, (menaing it was a permenant part of some sort of historical strucutre or document.) I'm not gonna come down and sand off the face of the tombstone. 😆

Im very glad to hear that.

A European view, based on many newspaper articles: the confederate flag is seen as a symbol of repression, and is associated with slavery. It's use is regarded as an expression of the desire to go back to the past, when black people had no civil rights, and those who fly the flag are regarded as racists.

Originally posted by PVS
hold on, im busy waving around this nazi flag...you know, for the honored dead who sacrificed their lives. it wasnt all about the damn holocaust, you know.
*goose steps*

eer Oh well I tried anyway. Your welcome to your cynical point of view.

Originally posted by MJOILNIR
Im very glad to hear that.

I assumed so. I dont believe in massive censorship. But as I said...it shouln't have any modern context..such as state flags or license plates.

Originally posted by Alliance
I assumed so. I dont believe in massive censorship. But as I said...it shouln't have any modern context..such as state flags or license plates.

I really dont much of an opinion there. I really dont have a problem with it though other than negative publicity. Its never been on my state flag anyway. It is still used as a mascot for a few surrounding high schools though. A couple of organizations have tried to have it removed but couldent do it.

Originally posted by MJOILNIR
eer Oh well I tried anyway. Your welcome to your cynical point of view.

ok, i get your point. the fact is however that the same excuse is used to wave the flag by racist assholes. i understand that you're not trying to justify it, but i have heard those same lines from idiots trying to justify their rebel flag hanging from the back of their rusted out pickup truck.

Originally posted by MJOILNIR
I really dont much of an opinion there. I really dont have a problem with it though other than negative publicity. Its never been on my state flag anyway. It is still used as a mascot for a few surrounding high schools though. A couple of organizations have tried to have it removed but couldent do it.

I'm sure the same people who tired to keep it are the ones trying to ban the flying of the Mexican flag.

Originally posted by Alliance
I'm sure the same people who tired to keep it are the ones trying to ban the flying of the Mexican flag.

Im sure your right. You know each and everyone right????? I mean theres no chance I know them better than you. My god Im absolutly amazed at how well people can sterotype here. I mean hell, movies and media are the best resource for knowing people. Heck I guess you dont even have to have ever meet someone to know their point of view and opinions as long as you have seen some backwards ass movie portraying them.

Originally posted by PVS
ok, i get your point. the fact is however that the same excuse is used to wave the flag by racist assholes. i understand that you're not trying to justify it, but i have heard those same lines from idiots trying to justify their rebel flag hanging from the back of their rusted out pickup truck.

I agree with you there. Thats the image I hate. It gives people like me a bad name. The problem is it is used as an exuse and not meant honestly.

Originally posted by PVS
ok, i get your point. the fact is however that the same excuse is used to wave the flag by racist assholes. i understand that you're not trying to justify it, but i have heard those same lines from idiots trying to justify their rebel flag hanging from the back of their rusted out pickup truck.

I will admit to driving a rusty truck on more than one occasion though 😆

hey, thats ok. its fun when the floorboards rust out, then you can pretend you're fred flintstone

Originally posted by PVS
hey, thats ok. its fun when the floorboards rust out, then you can pretend you're fred flintstone

😆 yea it just kinda sucks going thru mudholes 😂

i drive a japanese car. would they throw eggs at me?

Originally posted by PVS
i drive a japanese car. would they throw eggs at me?

Nah, my trucks a Toyota 😆 I do have a Ford also 😉

Originally posted by MJOILNIR
No need to say your sorry. Your more than welcome to your opinion. I respect peoples opinions whether I agree with them or not. 😉 I do want to point out that there were a lot more good moral people in the south at the time than immoral.

But the flag is not the people. The flag represents an ideal, and that ideal is permanently and inextricably linked with slavery.

This is not a matter of ignorance. It is very much a matter of historical record that the war started as a result of trade and the issue of State's rights, not a crusade over slavery. It is true that nearly all of the soldiers that fought for the South were no more racist than the ones from the North (as in, pretty racist, but not much to choose between them), that almost none had slaves, and this was mainly because major slaveholders were exempt from the draft. It is true that Confederate soldiers went to war not to keep slavery, but to defend what they saw as their homeland from unjustified attack.

All this is true. But it does not change the fundamental issue here. The war might not have started out about slavery, but it definitely became about slavery. Slavery became the fundamental drive of the war, and it became the ultimate aspiration of the war. It became the political and ideological centre of the war after all the earlier reasons had evaporated. The war gained a cause, because after time it became clear it could only be sensibly fought for a cause.

The Confederacy was ther last major power that supported slavery, one of the great fundamental wrongs of history. Even the Russians abolished serfdomn before the Confederacy was compelled to abolish slavery. We all now see slavery as evil and wrong, and no matter why the Confederate soldiers fought, they were fighting for a state that was imposing this great evil, and not covertly- supporting it openly and proudly, taking it as a basic right.

When the Noirth became anti-slavery, it became morally superior in the eys of the world, and justifably so. Now the war would not be just about union and trade. It would be about bringing something better to the world.

And it did so, and the world is a better place because the North won and destroyed this final bastion of slavery.

And so no matter how brave the Confederate soldiers were, and how remote their sturggle was compared to the political one around them... no matter how great and interesting the Generals were, or the spirit displayed was... none of this changes the fact that the Confederacy was supporting a fundamental evil. That flag represents that evil. And so it will always be looked down upon.

It is forever tainted.

Again your welcome to your opinion but not everyone shares it. Its is not nearly so looked down on. You can believe that if you want but it dosnt make it so. Maybe in your eyes but not others. Also even if its is linked in many eyes that also does not make it so. A battle flag represents the people fighting under it. Thats the very definition of a battle flag. It does not support the ideals, espically ideals that were linked to it afters its inception and the start of the war. Thats just nonsense.

But it IS looked down upon. That is not opinion, it is fact- you bemoan such a fact in your opening post!

I was explaining why, and that is how it is.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
But it IS looked down upon. That is not opinion, it is fact- you bemoan such a fact in your opening post!

I was explaining why, and that is how it is.


The whole idea of the post is to debunk the reason. I believe I have clearly givin reasons why it shouldent be. I know it is and most likely always will be but I think the reasoning is wrong. Linking ideals to a flag that existed for other reasons is wrong and incorrect. I do understand why you posted what you did. Im just trying to explain my views.