Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But I told you and o'girl, Debbiejoe (yes, I finally spelled her name right!), way back when, that it doesn't work that way. You know what I am going to locate that post. I'll be right back.
Is it going to essentially say "my experiance is valid because the Bible says it is valid and it supports the Bible and thus makes the Bible valid, whereas that experiance isn't valid because God doesn't see it as valid"?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Dear Imperial_Samura,You just don't get it do you? Your rationalizations about what Jesus should have done are pointless at best (if this offends you then I apologize). God's WAYS are higher than yours and He will NEVER condescend to YOUR or anyone else's thinking or rationalizations.
🙂
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You and Debbiejo are truly something else Imperial_Samura. You too are little children compared to God. I know you too think that your logic makes sense, but it DOES NOT MAKE FAITH. That is the crux of the whole matter. No matter what YOU THINK, RATIONALIZE, or what have you it will never amount to faith so it cannot please God. Your thinking just doesn't square up with God's modus operandi. God DOESN'T think the way that YOU THINK that He should think--at all. And you know what? He never will. You two have so many child-like rationalizations for everything relative to God. They are quite amusing (again, I apologize if I am offending you two) because no matter how sincere you both are you are not operating in faith. So none of what you deduce or rationalize will get you to where you want to be with God. All of it is in vain. You guys will see what I am talking about. I am not trying to offend you two. 🙂
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Imperial_Samura,There are some things that God wants/expects us to accept by faith (e.g., salvation only through Jesus Christ). I am not saying that God wants you to check your brain at the door as it were and never use it to rationalize, deduce, infer, and just plain old think. Perhaps that is the impression that I left you with. God is not a man (i.e., human being). We (myself included) should constantly remind ourselves of this fact. God does not think (i.e., rationalize or apply logic to various situations) the way that we do. God is rational and sensible but He (or His mind trancends the human mind infinitely). We cannot perceive reality the way that God does unless He permits us to. There are no limits on His intelligence, no constraints, barriers, or boundaries. God is the true, consummate out-of-the-box Thinker (in every sense of the word). But we are not. We see things from certain vantage points at times but still our thinking is very limited. God sees the end at the beginning. In fact, God forsees every possible ramification, effect, result, and consequence for every situation before He makes a decision. We do not have that kind of capacity. That is why we make mistakes. God never makes a mistake. How can God make a mistake when He sees or has knowledge about a situation before He acts? But see WE THINK (there goes our brilliant minds again, thinking that we somehow know something that God does not) that if God commands something of His creation and we do the complete opposite, that God was somehow in the dark about that. God knows what will happen 1000 years from now, and He is able to describe it in accurate detail.
I will have to revisit this post I am not done with it.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Well, isn't God/Jesus a bit unfair in this matter? There are people, more every day, who can't "just believe." Not out of evil, but simply because it is not in their nature. Your religion demands sincerity. How can that be expected of people who have no proof? We could all pray and try our darnedest, but really, it is not in the nature or mankind to just believe with nothing to give reason for that belief.
It is all well and good to say "believe" but tell us *how* to do this.
There YOU go with your RATIONALIZATIONS again. Your rationalizations + God's will don't equal faith (that which PLEASES God), it equals DOUBT and UNBELIEF to put it mildly. Like Ushgarak told me in another place Imperial_Samura, "You don't get to make the rules...." Okay, I changed the wording a little bit, but that is the gist. Imperial_Samura, like I told you if YOU choose not to believe that is YOUR prerogative, press on. No one is FORCING you to believe, just carry on with your life. Like I said in another place, God's Word will bear itself out in the final analysis. I honestly don't know why YOU keep responding to my posts. You seem like a pretty level-headed person, but it appears that something won't let you let go of this. You insist on trying to rationalize EVERYTHING but when it comes to the things of God, you just can't. You either except the things of God by faith or you don't. Do you follow me? That really is all there is to it. I don't have any trouble NOT believing in Buddah, Confucious, Mormonism, Catholicism, Islam, Masonic beliefs and so on. I just press on. But you seem to keep trying to convince yourself of something. Like deep down you WANT to believe the Bible if you just had a little more evidence of something. Guess what you are never going to get it. Believe or don't believe. If you choose the latter (and you already have) then press on.
These were some of my replies to you and Debbiejoe in times past.
Ok... though I'm not sure what exactly that has to do with the question I was asking.
Is the Buddhists experience valid, and proof, of his faith, just as your experiences are "valid proof" of your faith?
Do I deep down want to believe in the Bible? Who knows. I like believing in things that feel right and I am convinced are correct. I seem to have higher expectations though, and put more weight on evidence of this righteousness. I don't accept claims "It is good, even with no proof" or "good comes in time" - especially when there is so much else better supported out there.
You have no problem with Buddhism or anything else - good. Of course it hard to then judge the claim that Christianity is the one and only. If I accept the Bible is proof, and that your experiences are proof, then logically I would have to accept the holy texts and experiences of others are proof, and that their religions are equally valid - and as a result there are religions I feel more at ease with conceptually/mentally then Christianity, so if I started just accepting "proof" of this nature then...
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Ok... though I'm not sure what exactly that has to do with the question I was asking.Is the Buddhists experience valid, and proof, of his faith, just as your experiences are "valid proof" of your faith?
Do I deep down want to believe in the Bible? Who knows. I like believing in things that feel right and I am convinced are correct. I seem to have higher expectations though, and put more weight on evidence of this righteousness. I don't accept claims "It is good, even with no proof" or "good comes in time" - especially when there is so much else better supported out there.
You have no problem with Buddhism or anything else - good. Of course it hard to then judge the claim that Christianity is the one and only. If I accept the Bible is proof, and that your experiences are proof, then logically I would have to accept the holy texts and experiences of others are proof, and that their religions are equally valid - and as a result there are religions I feel more at ease with conceptually/mentally then Christianity, so if I started just accepting "proof" of this nature then...
Here is your post Samura:
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
It doesn't? Funny, I have a very open mind. If I see proof for something I would believe. I would have faith. You make it sound as if I have a ton of evidence yet I choose not to believe in God. But that is aside, it is the point of evidence -You experience validates your God. Does my experience (you never know, it might actually have happened, and there are certainly people who have claimed it has) validate my God, or would you say it doesn't qualify as evidence?
I posted those old school posts of mine to show you that nothing has changed in terms of how you think. You say in your post,
"...If I see proof for something I would believe. I would have faith...."
But if you can see something then you do not need faith. Do you follow me? Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen. If you could see God then you would not need faith. Faith takes the place of the thing that is unseen until it manifests.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Here is your post Samura:I posted those old school posts of mine to show you that nothing has changed in terms of how you think. You say in your post,
"...If I see proof for something I would believe. I would have faith...."
But if you can see something then you do not need faith. Do you follow me? Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen. If you could see God then you would not need faith. Faith takes the place of the thing that is unseen until it manifests.
Faith can also be a tool by which the powerful control the masses.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
How can "faith" something that is personal be used to control someone else?
Jim Jones.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Jim Jones.
That was not an individual product of faith that produced that. Personal faith and a "system of beliefs (i.e. a religion) are two different things. Your application of the word faith as something that can be used to conrol others is a misapplied notion and misnomer.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That was not an individual product of faith tha produced that. Personal faith and a "system of beliefs (i.e. a religion) are two different things. Your application of the word faith as something that can be used to conrol others is a misapplied notion and misnomer.
One can lead to the other.
Isn't arrogance over one's convictions the pinacle sin in nearly all abrahamic scripture?
Especially at the expense of other people, those who are not with you or who are unlike you?
Hmmm, wasn't that exemplified by that one angelic dude whom my people don't believe in....
now what's his name, um....let's see, real adversarial guy...often confused with an angel named Ha'Sataan.
um...
oh yeah... DIS!!!!!!
The king of lies.
honestly JesusisAlive, I think Slayer is less blasphemous than you.
Originally posted by Darth Jello
Isn't arrogance over one's convictions the pinacle sin in nearly all abrahamic scripture?
Especially at the expense of other people, those who are not with you or who are unlike you?Hmmm, wasn't that exemplified by that one angelic dude whom my people don't believe in....
now what's his name, um....let's see, real adversarial guy...often confused with an angel named Ha'Sataan.
um...
oh yeah... DIS!!!!!!
The king of lies.honestly JesusisAlive, I think Slayer is less blasphemous than you.
I get this inane accusation regularly.
on the one hand i'm a jew so i'm not allowed to write this name, on the other hand i'm a secular jew so i don't care.
so with that in mind, are you really so arrogant as to think you know what faith hashem/elohim/adonai/yahweh actually favors and that you know what the will of a divine being such as this is?
Originally posted by Darth Jello
on the one hand i'm a jew so i'm not allowed to write this name, on the other hand i'm a secular jew so i don't care.so with that in mind, are you really so arrogant as to think you know what faith hashem/elohim/adonai/yahweh actually favors and that you know what the will of a divine being such as this is?
Darth, I know what the Bible reveals.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Hatred?!? Vehemence?!? Attack?!? Hey, wait a minute: I remember you. You are that dude who got angry with me and vowed to never talk to me again a while back. I forget what we were discussing. I think I am going to look up a Sweet Pickles yearbook because there seems to be a pattern here. I say one thing, but then I get accused of something else. I posted an article about purgatory, but then I get accused of hatred, vehemence, and attacks. Wow. I did not write that article dude. (Looks in Sweet Pickles yearbook for names).
Mmmm....sweet pickles. droolio
But I think you have me confused with someone else.
Anyway, yeah, most of what you say on these forums insults other peoples' beliefs in many ways. Often, it's rather vehement. And not writing something means nothing if you still agree with it.
If you can't see how your beliefs callously deny the thoughts, beliefs, and opinions of other genuinely good human beings, all the while taking a condescending approach to religious discussion, you're blinder than the man Jesus healed in the scriptures.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Darth, I know what the Bible reveals.
This would make a great quote for Episode VII. 😉