But I am a good moral person

Going to Heaven Are We?

"I am the Lord your God. Richard Deem, give me an account of your life."

"Lord, I did my best and and led an exemplary life. I never was physically involved with any of my girlfriends. I was a Scout leader for years. I tried to help people in some way almost every day. I did a lot of other good things - I'm, sure you know all about them."

"Richard, have you ever lied?"

"I tried to tell the truth all the time and was almost always honest."

"Richard, have you ever lied?"

"Yes, Lord. I have lied some."

"Richard, what do you call a person who lies?"

"A liar, Lord."

"Richard, what does my word say about liars?"

"It says that all liars will be sent to hell, Lord."

"Richard, have you ever taken anything that is not yours?"

"Lord, You know that I am an honest person."

"Richard, have you ever taken something that belonged to someone
else?"

"Yes, Lord."

"Richard, what do you call someone who takes something that belongs to another?"

"A thief, Lord. I am a thief."

"Richard, what does my word say about thieves?"

"It says that no thieves will enter into heaven, Lord."

"Richard, have you ever wanted something that belonged to someone else?"

"Yes, Lord."

"Richard, what does my word say about people who want things that belong to others?

"It says they are coveting, Lord"

"Richard, what does my word say will happen to those who covet?"

"It says that no covetous people will enter into heaven, Lord."

"Richard, have you ever killed anybody?"

"Of course not, Lord."

"Richard, have you ever hated anybody?"

"Yes, Lord."

"Richard, what does my word say about people who hate others."

"It says that they are guilty of murder in their heart."

"Richard, what does that make you?"

"I'm a murderer, Lord."

"Richard, have you ever called anybody a fool?"

"Yes, Lord, but he was really stupid."

"Richard, what does my word say about people who call others a fool?"

"It says that they shall be guilty enough to go into hell."

"Richard, have you ever committed adultery?"

"Absolutely not, Lord."

"Richard, have you ever lusted after a woman?"

"Yes, Lord."

"Richard, what does my word say about those who lust after a woman?"

"It says that he has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

"Richard, what does that make you?"

"I am an adulterer, Lord."

"Richard, what does my word say will happen to adulterers?"

"It says that no adulterers will enter into heaven, Lord."

"Richard Deem, are you ready for me to pronounce sentence?"

"Wait, Lord. What about all the good things I have done?"

"Richard, are you pleading not guilty to the above crimes?"

"No, Lord. I am guilty."
________________________________________
So, do you think you are going to get into heaven on the basis of your good behavior? The above exchange illustrates the futility of attempting to earn your way to heaven. No amount of good works is going to exonerate your guilt before the Holy God. My (and your) guilt is based upon the things we do against God's laws. It works the same way our criminal justice system works - if you are guilty of a crime, you go to jail. It doesn't matter how many good things you have done.

Now, maybe you have never done any of the things above. If so, you need to go to this page. The rest of us realize that we have a BIG problem. I came to this realization upon reading Jesus' Sermon on the Mount from Matthew chapter 5. I realized that I needed a Savior to take away my sin. That is the only way I could appear before God without guilt. Jesus Christ died to take away my (and your) sin, so that we could be righteous before God. The Bible says you must receive Jesus Christ as your Lord (i.e., boss) and Savior. This means that you repent (turn from your sin) and believe that Jesus died for your sin. You also agree to follow Jesus to become more like Him. He will give you true joy in this life and eternal life with Him afterward.

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/goingtoheaven.html

Heaven is not a place you go when you die. Heaven is a state of mind.

You do not earn your way to heaven; that we agree on. You can be in heaven any time you wish to.

We do not have guilt before any holy god, for there is no first sin.

We cannot do things against God; we are part of God.

We do not need a savior, for there is nothing to be saved from. But I am glad that you are happy.

Jesus died to make a martyr of him self to further her religion, and he succeeded. However, there is no original sin for Jesus to die for.

I used to be a Christian and I know first hand that what I was told was lies.

I hate cpoy paste threads.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Going to Heaven Are We?

"Richard Deem, are you ready for me to pronounce sentence?"

"Wait, Lord. What about all the good things I have done?"

"Richard, are you pleading not guilty to the above crimes?"

"No, Lord. I am guilty."
_____________________________________
So, do you think you are going to get into heaven on the basis of your good behavior? The above exchange illustrates the futility of attempting to earn your way to heaven. No amount of good works is going to exonerate your guilt before the Holy God. My (and your) guilt is based upon the things we do against God's laws. It works the same way our criminal justice system works - if you are guilty of a crime, you go to jail. It doesn't matter how many good things you have done.

Now, maybe you have never done any of the things above. If so, you need to go to this page. The rest of us realize that we have a BIG problem. I came to this realization upon reading Jesus' Sermon on the Mount from Matthew chapter 5. I realized that I needed a Savior to take away my sin. That is the only way I could appear before God without guilt. Jesus Christ died to take away my (and your) sin, so that we could be righteous before God. The Bible says you must receive Jesus Christ as your Lord (i.e., boss) and Savior. This means that you repent (turn from your sin) and believe that Jesus died for your sin. You also agree to follow Jesus to become more like Him. He will give you true joy in this life and eternal life with Him afterward.

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/goingtoheaven.html [/B]

The ending:

"Richard, are you sorry for the things you did wrong?"

"Yes, Lord"

"Richard, will you accept my sacrifice in return for admittance?"

"Yes, Lord"

"Then I absolve you of all your sins, you are no longer a thief, you are no longer an adulterer, you are no longer a murderer, etc. for I have the ability to forgive whom I will forgive"

*scene of a loving, brotherly, embrace Richard crying*

"Go Richard, enter Heaven and do not worry over your sins further, for all may be saved through my grace"

*Richard enters*

*A man steps forward*

"But lord, you said those people wouldn't get in"

"Ah, but I also offered them the ability to repent and not be those people"

"But you said they couldn't, so he shouldn't get in"

"Did I not also say something about judging?"

"I seem to remember such, but I wasn't judging, it was the Bible that did"

"Is the Bible not the Word of God?"

"It is"

"Does the Bible not say that I am the Word of God?"

"It does"

"Did I not say that I judge no man? And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me?"

"You did"

"Then how can you claim that the Bible judged your brother?"

"I..."

"I am sorry, but you have judged your brother, and you have held strict to the Bible while doing so. You should have understood, but you did not. I must judge you by the judgement you used to judge."

"But you didn't do that with him..."

"But I did"

"..."

"Have you ever called anybody a fool?"

"No, Lord, I quoted the Bible where it said he was a fool, he was really stupid and said there was no God."

"So, I judged him and said he was a fool?"

"Uhhh...no?"

"Correct, I did not if I did not, who did?"

"... I did?"

"Yes, you did. What does my word say about people who call others a fool?"

"It says that they shall be guilty enough to go into hell."

"Yes, that is what it says"

____________________________________________

JIA, you are not the one that sits at the Judgement Seat, you stand before it with everyone else. If Christ does this, regardless of whether it will or will not occur, you are not in the position to comment on it.

Edit: I removed reference to JIA forgetting.

Originally posted by Regret
You forgot the ending:

"Richard, are you sorry for the things you did wrong?"

"Yes, Lord"

"Richard, will you accept my sacrifice in return for admittance?"

"Yes, Lord"

"Then I absolve you of all your sins, you are no longer a thief, you are no longer an adulterer, you are no longer a murderer, etc. for I have the ability to forgive whom I will forgive"

*scene of a loving, brotherly, embrace Richard crying*

"Go Richard, enter Heaven and do not worry over your sins further, for all may be saved through my grace"

*Richard enters*

*A man steps forward*

"But lord, you said those people wouldn't get in"

"Ah, but I also offered them the ability to repent and not be those people"

"But you said they couldn't, so he shouldn't get in"

"Did I not also say something about judging?"

"I seem to remember such, but I wasn't judging, it was the Bible that did"

"Is the Bible not the Word of God?"

"It is"

"Does the Bible not say that I am the Word of God?"

"It does"

"Did I not say that I judge no man? And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me?"

"You did"

"Then how can you claim that the Bible judged your brother?"

"I..."

"I am sorry, but you have judged your brother, and you have held strict to the Bible while doing so. You should have understood, but you did not. I must judge you by the judgement you used to judge."

"But you didn't do that with him..."

"But I did"

"..."

"Have you ever called anybody a fool?"

"No, Lord, I quoted the Bible where it said he was a fool, he was really stupid and said there was no God."

"So, I judged him and said he was a fool?"

"Uhhh...no?"

"Correct, I did not if I did not, who did?"

"... I did?"

"Yes, you did. What does my word say about people who call others a fool?"

"It says that they shall be guilty enough to go into hell."

"Yes, that is what it says"

____________________________________________

You forget JIA, you are not the one that sits at the Judgement Seat, you stand before it with everyone else. If Christ does this, regardless of whether it wil or will not occur, you are not in the position to comment on it.

Regret, don't accuse me of forgetting what I have not forgotten.

Thanks Regret, I'm glad you are here.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Regret, don't accuse me of forgeting what I have not forgotten.

Ok, you did not forget it, it must have occurred while you were busy searching for some Biblical quotes.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Thanks Regret, I'm glad you are here.

You are welcome my friend.

Originally posted by Regret
Ok, you did not forget it, it must have occurred while you were busy searching for some Biblical quotes.

So then why did you post that remark?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So then why did you post that remark?

My intent is the same, I will remove the forget part.

Of course, lacking any reasonable basis to actually state that someone who has fancied a girl is actually an adulterer, the whole exchange looks pretty stupid.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Heaven is not a place you go when you die. Heaven is a state of mind.

You do not earn your way to heaven; that we agree on. You can be in heaven any time you wish to.

We do not have guilt before any holy god, for there is no first sin.

We cannot do things against God; we are part of God.

We do not need a savior, for there is nothing to be saved from. But I am glad that you are happy.

Jesus died to make a martyr of him self to further her religion, and he succeeded. However, there is no original sin for Jesus to die for.

I used to be a Christian and I know first hand that what I was told was lies.

Shaky,

Your comment there about once being a Chirstian and "knowing" that it was lies really struck me. Without going into the story of my upbringing and the way in which I was taught about bible reading, prayer, church and God, I had the same bitter feelings as you carry with you now. However, at some point it's up to you as an adult (presuming you are of adult age) to disregard what others have drilled into you, and seek out the truth for yourself. You do owe it to yourself to learn on your own.

Jesusisalive: I see that you are trying very hard in here to spread the word of God and that is wonderful! You will be greatly rewarded!! But, be careful in what manner you take to get your point across and share the Word of God. The written word of God is a sword. But swing it wrongly-and people could get hurt. Just a little piece of advice.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Of course, lacking any reasonable basis to actually state that someone who has fancied a girl is actually an adulterer, the whole exchange looks pretty stupid.

Yes, if it were so, all men would be adulterers, or at least very odd in their process of mate selection 😉

Originally posted by marcu
Shaky,

Your comment there about once being a Chirstian and "knowing" that it was lies really struck me. Without going into the story of my upbringing and the way in which I was taught about bible reading, prayer, church and God, I had the same bitter feelings as you carry with you now. However, at some point it's up to you as an adult (presuming you are of adult age) to disregard what others have drilled into you, and seek out the truth for yourself. You do owe it to yourself to learn on your own.

Jesusisalive: I see that you are trying very hard in here to spread the word of God and that is wonderful! You will be greatly rewarded!! But, be careful in what manner you take to get your point across and share the Word of God. The written word of God is a sword. But swing it wrongly-and people could get hurt. Just a little piece of advice.

Fair enough Marcu.

Originally posted by marcu
Shaky,

Your comment there about once being a Chirstian and "knowing" that it was lies really struck me. Without going into the story of my upbringing and the way in which I was taught about bible reading, prayer, church and God, I had the same bitter feelings as you carry with you now. However, at some point it's up to you as an adult (presuming you are of adult age) to disregard what others have drilled into you, and seek out the truth for yourself. You do owe it to yourself to learn on your own.

Jesusisalive: I see that you are trying very hard in here to spread the word of God and that is wonderful! You will be greatly rewarded!! But, be careful in what manner you take to get your point across and share the Word of God. The written word of God is a sword. But swing it wrongly-and people could get hurt. Just a little piece of advice.

Shak already did. He shed Christianity and took up Buddhism.

When id God's word become a lethal instrument?

Don't we have a "Good people in hell" thread already?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Don't we have a "Good people in hell" thread already?

That is not the import that should be inferred from this thread.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Shak already did. He shed Christianity and took up Buddhism.

When id God's word become a lethal instrument?

Many people have very bitter feelings towards the church and God. Thus, when one is speaking to someone who does not seem to be recieving openly...he must be careful not to throw too much religion at that person. The last thing a christian should do is use the written word so forcefully that non-believers get disqusted and turn further away.

None of you know my backround, and when I say that the wrong approach to teaching bible reading, prayer etc is used...it can be haremul in the mind of the one inteneded to recieve.

Originally posted by marcu
Shaky,

Your comment there about once being a Chirstian and "knowing" that it was lies really struck me. Without going into the story of my upbringing and the way in which I was taught about bible reading, prayer, church and God, I had the same bitter feelings as you carry with you now. However, at some point it's up to you as an adult (presuming you are of adult age) to disregard what others have drilled into you, and seek out the truth for yourself. You do owe it to yourself to learn on your own.

Jesusisalive: I see that you are trying very hard in here to spread the word of God and that is wonderful! You will be greatly rewarded!! But, be careful in what manner you take to get your point across and share the Word of God. The written word of God is a sword. But swing it wrongly-and people could get hurt. Just a little piece of advice.

Thank you for your kind words. I understand what are you saying, and I am working on that right now. The hate is deep within me, and I need to purge this from my life. I have made a lot of progress and this forum has helped. However, JIA brings out the pain in me because he reminds me of my brother, who will not talk to me. Why can Christians be so hateful?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That is not the import that should be inferred from this thread.

...what?

[edit] Oh okay, i see the differences. Propaganda clouds my mind.

[edit2] Actually I take it back, it's basically the same thread. Just with a Richard instead of a Ghandi this time.