Pope' s Speech Stirs Muslim Anger

Originally posted by Robtard
Martyr complex? America didn't sacrifice itself; we're still the sole world superpower and will be for some time to come, no complex here.

Originally posted by Robtard
No worries though, most of the world hates America, then again, when you're #1, in the right or wrong, people tend to hate you. Who ever becomes the next world superpower, be it China, Iran or Guatemala, they'll be despised just the same. Something to consider, if a country like Iran were to have hegemonic world power like America does currently, how will they use/abuse that power?

Originally posted by Robtard
Of course the Iranians blame America, they were lead and are currently lead by Islamo-facist extremist who view America as the "Great Satan" because they fear Democracy and progressive thinking, those ideologies threaten their control. By your tone "U.S. engineered coup" you clearly blame America as the fiend yet again.

"By your tone" U.S. foreign policy over the last half decade or so has had nothing to do with current Middle Eastern perceptions of the West.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You either didn't grasp what I meant by martyr complex or did and decided to be ironic, as illustrated by the second part of your post.What tone? It was a C.I.A. i.e. U.S. engineered coup d'etat.

"By your tone" U.S. foreign policy over the last half decade or so has had nothing to do with current Middle Eastern perceptions of the West.

I did grasp that you didn't mean "martyr" in a literal sense obviously, I was throwing it back in your face is all and it wouldn't be ironic, it would be hypocritical. The tone that the U.S. was in the wrong to help the Shah, that tone.

You're reading my tone wrong then, obviously foreign policy guides peoples opinions and views of a country. But we are not talking about the last 5 years (A.K.A. Bush & Co.), these anti-West views started long ago as stated in my first/second post that you responded too.

Any thoughts on my hypothetical question?

My statement about the coup d'etat was in regard to the causes of current animosity towards the West due to foreign policy going back a long time.

The question about an Iranian hegemony. I'd imagine they'd exert their influence to affect the world in the same manner. However the likelihood of such a scenario is remote to say the least, and a hypothetical scenario doesn't really mitigate U.S. foreign policy nor give carte blanche to U.S. action.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
My statement about the coup d'etat was in regard to the causes of current animosity towards the West due to foreign policy going back a long time.

The question about an Iranian hegemony. I'd imagine they'd exert their influence to affect the world in the same manner. However the likelihood of such a scenario is remote to say the least, and a hypothetical scenario doesn't really mitigate U.S. foreign policy nor give carte blanche to U.S. action.

Well of course, if the Ayatollahs weren't successful in their religious revolt, Iran would most likely have a pro-West attitude and the world would most likely be a safer/better place.

Wow... You really think an Islamic Theocracy like Iran would "exert their influence to affect the world in the same manner" as the U.S. has since becoming the sole world superpower? It wasn't supposed to excuse or condemn U.S. action, that wasn't the reason why I asked.

Originally posted by Sam Z
It doesn't really matter, they still can do that. My point is that it's funny that Pope has freedom of speech to say these things about islam but when they get upset and express their feelings about it everyone forget about that right and start blaming them for only trying to get apologies. It's simply not fair.

That's not true, no one is denying them their freedom of speech. No one at all.

Originally posted by Robtard
Well of course, if the Ayatollahs weren't successful in their religious revolt, Iran would most likely have a pro-West attitude and the world would most likely be a safer/better place.

Wow... You really think an Islamic Theocracy like Iran would "exert their influence to affect the world in the same manner" as the U.S. has since becoming the sole world superpower? It wasn't supposed to excuse or condemn U.S. action, that wasn't the reason why I asked.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
What manner do you think the Iranian regime would act? Would they arbitrarily deploy nuclear weaponry on the rest of the world? Or invade all their neighbours? Or cripple the global economy for fun? All while cackling hysterically?

Considering they are currently extremist and religious fundamentalist, I wouldn't doubt it, with the exception of nuclear warfare, that isn't logical, it destroys land and land is money, well, maybe they would make an exception and nuke Israel. Those damn "Zionist" you know.

Well it has been a long time since I read so much crap in one thread.

How did the irony of ''you said we are not peaceful, and therefore you will pay with your life for it'' got lost in this situation?

These are the people which are trying to convince all the world that they are a religion of peace.

In the demonstration yesterday in London, Muslims asked for Pope to be executed, saying that anyone who inslults islam deserves death.

They have killed a nun, and burned and attacked churches over one simple comment.

Please someone tell me last time you have recalled a Jew protest by burning down a church? When was the last time you Christian protested by Buring down a Mosque? When did a Buddhist protest by burning down either?

And those who somehow concluded that Christians were more violent than Muslims, doesn't seem to have even the basic knowledge of Islamic history, so please, read up on it before making such bold and historically innactuarte statements.

Besides, Pope appologised. I think its stupid and immature to keep on having a hissy fit.

Oh ad please, Im waiting for all the muslims clerics to appologise to Jews for calling them pigs and monkeys on their national television and in their children's books.

Im waiting for them to appologise for killing Theo Van Gogh.

Im waiting for them to appologise for stirring up shit because of Danish cartoons.

....I think i might wait very long time.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Well it has been a long time since I read so much crap in one thread.

How did the irony of ''you said we are not peaceful, and therefore you will pay with your life for it'' got lost in this situation?

These are the people which are trying to convince all the world that they are a religion of peace.

In the demonstration yesterday in London, Muslims asked for Pope to be executed, saying that anyone who inslults islam deserves death.

They have killed a nun, and burned and attacked churches over one simple comment.

Please someone tell me last time you have recalled a Jew protest by burning down a church? When was the last time you Christian protested by Buring down a Mosque? When did a Buddhist protest by burning down either?

And those who somehow concluded that Christians were more violent than Muslims, doesn't seem to have even the basic knowledge of Islamic history, so please, read up on it before making such bold and historically innactuarte statements.

Besides, Pope appologised. I think its stupid and immature to keep on having a hissy fit.

Oh ad please, Im waiting for all the muslims clerics to appologise to Jews for calling them pigs and monkeys on their national television and in their children's books.

Im waiting for them to appologise for killing Theo Van Gogh.

Im waiting for them to appologise for stirring up shit because of Danish cartoons.

....I think i might wait very long time.

You have the stupidest logic i've ever saw.
Ok, tell me now. Is christianity a violant religion because George Bush is an a$$hole? He is obviously not a man of peace, so it proves that Christianity is a violant religion!!! 😱
Or may be jewdaism is a violant religion because of the Ariel Sharon? How many serial killers were among christians, jews, bhuddists and atheists? Do they determine religion? Do their behaivour makes it violant? Or may be you yourself should read Qur'an and only then judge if Islam violant or not. I remembered we debated about that on another thread and all your "proofs" that Qur'an approvs violance failed, and i even wasted my own time and commented on the quotes and quoted Qur'an myself, but you wouldn't listen because you are too much got used to the idea that it is violant. I don't even know why i wasted time quoting Qur'an and explaining other quotes.
And i'd rather die and go to hell than apologise to Jews that currently live in Israel, why don't they apologise for killing my relatives? It doesn't seem to me that they feel sorry for inocent people they killed, raped and tortured (and yes, believe it or not i don't care but this DID happened). I'd never apologise to these f@#kers and i don't need apologies from Pope, i just know he is not the one to criticise any religion since Catholicism has lots of things to be "proud" of itself.
Now lets together wait till I get banned, you see i said that israeli jews are f!#kers, but i can't say such things about jews on the public forum, but when somebody say things like "f@#king Arabs" or "dumb canadians" it's just fine...

Responsibility is a two-way street. Your association with the good things done by other members of your group is just as strong as your association with the bad things done by members of your group.
In the end, religion is comprised of the actions and beliefs of the theists because that’ s all that really exists. There is no pure form of religion sitting out there, against which all current and historical manifestations of that particular religion can be judged.

Most of this wouldn't have happened if the Pope just had cut the comments from his speech. There were inflamatory and really contributed nothign to his argument. He could've been proactive about the situation.

But the "Islamic" response is still unacceptble. But I really don't know how large it is. I could find 200 people to riot about almost anything.

Originally posted by Alliance
Most of this wouldn't have happened if the Pope just had cut the comments from his speech. There were inflamatory and really contributed nothign to his argument. He could've been proactive about the situation.

But the "Islamic" response is still unacceptble. But I really don't know how large it is. I could find 200 people to riot about almost anything.

In what way were his words inflamatory? He quoted an ancient text.

This is the question I pose - What makes Muslims better than any other religious group, that noone may say anything regarding their religion?
Why is their religion more important than that of Jews and Christians?

And why may the Arab nations call Jews all kinds of names, teach their children to hate jews and praise Hitler, yet pope's words, which by the way, were mare quoting of medevil text, cause such an upheavel?

Second, your assumption of 200 people rioting is not right. Considering that a Italian nun has been shot in Somalia over this, and a numerous churches in Gaza stripp attacked and bombed, and the Muslim clerics have called out for the death of Pope, I would take that as a more than 200 people rioting.

I only saw the demonstrations in London, however.

If you believe that any comment can produce this kind of oubrake, and feel its justifyable, then I say you are wrong, in my opinion.

Why is our freedom of speach limited when it comes to Muslims?
I praise Pope for having the guts to say what he did, and I praise him more for being the only Pope to have ever made such an appology in history of Catholisism.

All Muslims did with this rioting is prove his comments correct.

It is perfectly legitimate for them to complain and lodge protests against the quote. However, riots and threats are not only inappropriate, but they only serve to validate some of the criticisms being made. The proper reaction is not threatening to kill people, and generally acting in a manner contrary to all civilized standards of decency.

I don't know where that praising Hitler thing came from but as for calling Jews names it is the least thing Arabs could do for what Jews did. By the way about freedom of speech, it usually limited when it comes to Jews, not muslims. Try talking about Holocaust. Do you know how many people were charged for doubting Holocaust? And not only that. When it comes to middle east conflicts media ussually only covers actions of countries israel fights against and never actions of israel itself.

Originally posted by Storm
It is perfectly legitimate for them to complain and lodge protests against the quote. However, riots and threats are not only inappropriate, but they only serve to validate some of the criticisms being made. The proper reaction is not threatening to kill people, and generally acting in a manner contrary to all civilized standards of decency.

I concur.
Everyone has the right to complain, just as everyone has the right to get offended.

Once people start fearing for their safety due to a comment or an opinion, is the point where people should stop and think, and perhaps release there is a problem.

I am sure you are familiar with the incident which lead to Theo Van Gogh's dead.

Dan Brown has not been shot and stabbed for writing The Da Vinchi Code, a book which has denied the very bases of Christian faith.

Originally posted by Sam Z
You have the stupidest logic i've ever saw.
Ok, tell me now. Is christianity a violant religion because George Bush is an a$$hole? He is obviously not a man of peace, so it proves that Christianity is a violant religion!!! 😱
Or may be jewdaism is a violant religion because of the Ariel Sharon? How many serial killers were among christians, jews, bhuddists and atheists? Do they determine religion? Do their behaivour makes it violant? Or may be you yourself should read Qur'an and only then judge if Islam violant or not. I remembered we debated about that on another thread and all your "proofs" that Qur'an approvs violance failed, and i even wasted my own time and commented on the quotes and quoted Qur'an myself, but you wouldn't listen because you are too much got used to the idea that it is violant. I don't even know why i wasted time quoting Qur'an and explaining other quotes.
And i'd rather die and go to hell than apologise to Jews that currently live in Israel, why don't they apologise for killing my relatives? It doesn't seem to me that they feel sorry for inocent people they killed, raped and tortured (and yes, believe it or not i don't care but this DID happened). I'd never apologise to these f@#kers and i don't need apologies from Pope, i just know he is not the one to criticise any religion since Catholicism has lots of things to be "proud" of itself.
Now lets together wait till I get banned, you see i said that israeli jews are f!#kers, but i can't say such things about jews on the public forum, but when somebody say things like "f@#king Arabs" or "dumb canadians" it's just fine...

Your analogy is way off... Do you not see how radical Islam has become these days? The religion itself may or may not be violent, I do not personally know, I haven't studied the Qur'an in depth to make that judgement. But do you not see how the Muslim population reacts these days to anything they see as an infraction? Burning churches, murdering and rioting are not peaceful acts. Islamic leaders condemn Jews and Christians without a care, but God forbid if someone says anything even remotely negative about Islam.

Please watch this movie, if you already haven't.

Do not contrencate if you do not wish, on what the people say, but pay very close attention to the kind of things Arab television transmits.

''Kill all Jews'' ''Death to America''

Hmmm...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1211228663574416724&q=Obsession+The+Movie

Originally posted by Robtard
Your analogy is way off... Do you not see how radical Islam has become these days? The religion itself may or may not be violent, I do not personally know, I haven't studied the Qur'an in depth to make that judgement. But do you not see how the Muslim population reacts these days to anything they see as an infraction? Burning churches, murdering and rioting are not peaceful acts. Islamic leaders condemn Jews and Christians without a care, but God forbid if someone says anything even remotely negative about Islam.

Muslims reacts just like many others react on something they are warried about. Burning churches, fighting is not an act of religion and not something Qur'an tells them to do, it's an act of croud. There was a gay parade in moscow recently, there was a HUGE fight, people all over Moscow came to fight gays for holding a freaking parade only. Or how about all demonstrations that turn into fights, and often because of stupid reasons. The only difference that some people are more worried about cutting off woods or killing animals or they don't like gays, muslims are just too sensitive when ot comes to their religion. Fighting and burning is an overreacting but that is how crouds usually react and it is not the reason to make judgements about religion itself and call it violant.

You see there are people in this thread who were just taught to hate muslims just like She recently said that arab children were tought "to hate Jews". And it doesn't matter what reasons you give, what quotes you type. I can tell a lot about what Qur'an teaches but She formed her opinion and she'd blindly follow it even if it's falls because She was taught this way. Take me for example, I do hate Jews (not all of them but some certain that live in Israel) and they were violant with arabs and with my relatives as well, but it doesn't make me think that Jewdaism is a violant religion.

Originally posted by Alliance
Maybe if we stopped assassinating their leaders. We'll..we did take a short break. The arab world is not in 800 CE. In 800 CE Baghdad was the intellectual and cultural capital of the world. The Arabs have a very modern mentality, its just not the one that you (and I) would prefer them to have.

I'm sure bombing the hell out of them is a productive way to help them industrialize...oh wait...we don't want them to industrialize. Why? Because we made them hate us.

Nobody made them hate us; they hate Americans for their own farfetched reasons.

And yeah, the Arab World is very backwards. I've been to Saudi Arabia (the very birthplace of that religion) and their mentality and world views are still set back 1000 years ago. Sure they have cars, computers, cell phones, and modern weapons (something they seem to have a particular fondness for) yet their society hasn't progressed in the least, ey. They make their women cover up and they can't even go out in public without a male escort. Not to mention, Jews can't even step foot in that country.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Nobody made them hate us; they hate Americans for their own farfetched reasons.

And yeah, the Arab World is very backwards. I've been to Saudi Arabia (the very birthplace of that religion) and their mentality and world views are still set back 1000 years ago. Sure they have cars, computers, cell phones, and modern weapons (something they seem to have a particular fondness for) yet their society hasn't progressed in the least, ey. They make their women cover up and they can't even go out in public without a male escort. Not to mention, Jews can't even step foot in that country.

Interesting, I know this guy at my work who I talk to usually, well anyways the topic of religion came up and he told me he lived in Saudia Arabia for 16 years, he is Christian though not Jewish, and he said he loved it and called it his homeland, I was surprised as shit. He also said that Americans have a backwards view of the middle east. Was a really interesting conversation.