ESB Luke vs. Qui-Gon Jinn

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
This is so retarded. Are you saying then that TPM Padawan Obi-Wan Kenobi can give Vader a nice fight? This is so fu*cked up 😂

Vader has defeated dozens of Jedi during his hunt for them. He can:

- Force Choke with great power
-Use his hands to dissappear energy from laser blasts
-Could hurl many items at his opponents while fighting, plus he uses Dun Moch
-Uses his fierce strength with his Djem So to create a barrage of crushing blows
-Has immense strength
-Trained regularly with ASP-19 Droids for practice, note these droids are faster than human

Plus a lot more.

I don't see how Tyrannus can beat him. Plus, Luke stood up to that!!! Maul would get pwned by Vader. And guess what, Qui-Gon got sliced up Maul! Luke would stand to Qui-Gon easily.

I highly doubt Vader could defeat Dooku. I would give that fight to Dooku 9/10 times. Furthermore I DO think that TPM Kenobi can give Vader a good fight but not necessarily win. Vader would have trouble with anyone as fast as Maul or Obi wan, and only his incredibly strength and force abilities would win him those fights.

I highly doubt Vader could defeat Dooku. I would give that fight to Dooku 9/10 times. Furthermore I DO think that TPM Kenobi can give Vader a good fight but not necessarily win. Vader would have trouble with anyone as fast as Maul or Obi wan, and only his incredibly strength and force abilities would win him those fights.

What has the vs. forum fallen to? So now a Padawan Obi-Wan can give Darth Vader, a master of the Force and lightsaber a tough fight, bullsh*t!!!

TPM Kenobi is faster than Vader and while I have no doubt in my mind that OT Vader would beat TPM Kenobi in a pure saber fight it would be close if Kenobi is using his anger (Vader still would win, though barely).

- Force Choke with great power

-Use his hands to dissappear energy from laser blasts

-Could hurl many items at his opponents while fighting, plus he uses Dun Moch

-Uses his fierce strength with his Djem So to create a barrage of crushing blows

-Has immense strength

-Trained regularly with ASP-19 Droids for practice, note these droids are faster than human

I don't see how Tyrannus can beat him. Plus, Luke stood up to that!!! Maul would get pwned by Vader. And guess what, Qui-Gon got sliced up Maul! Luke would stand to Qui-Gon easily.

How can you say Vader pwns Maul when they already faught and it was close? That's so newbish. Qui-Gon didn't get sliced up by Maul, watch TPM again it was close. Vader > Maul barely, Maul > Qui-Gon but it's close so Vader > Qui-Gon but not by to much while he wtf pwnd Luke when he actually tried his best. Qui-Gon pwns ESB Luke.

Dude, you're really a noob. How in the world can you say Darth Vadre is very close to Darth Maul. Vader would comfortably defeat Maul. I would even go to say that Vader pwns Maul!!! Maul is good, no doubt, but Vader is a lot better. Just because he's in a suit doesn't mean he is as fast as a snail. His life-suit is not like Medieval armor, which is very heavy. This is the future, the suit is probably light weight. I highly doubt Vader's mobility is reduced more than half. I would say he is mybe 1/5 or perhaps 1/4 of his original speed. OMFG, Vader does not beat Qui-Gon barely. George Lucas says that Vader goes back up to 80-90% of Sidious, which is about Count Dooku's level. Vader is better than Tyrannus, but if we're assuming he's not, he'd still wipe the floor with Qui-Gon. You're just basing your claim on the movies. The choreography sucked back then, so Vader's powers were reduced badly. Vader would destroy Qui-Gon, and Luke would barely lose to Qui-Gon or win.

I can say that they are very close because they have fought before and the outcome was very close.

So you're basing your claim on a comic. Now, I don't doubt the credibility of comics, but sometimes the illustrations are made for the entertainment of the reader, not to portray the flow of the battle as it would really happen.

Now Maul is good, no doubt, by logical terms, Vader is better from many standpoints.

Now for Luke vs. Qui-Gon.

After Qui-Gon "healed himself", Maul eliminated him within 30 seconds (I watched it on youtube). Maul doesn't even look wiped out, even though he fought Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan plus revitalized Qui-Gon!!!

Luke however lasted for a couple of minutes against Vader!!! With Vader being a lot more powerful than Maul.

Logically speaking, Qui-Gon might win only by experience and even then it's close. However, there is a definite possibility that luke could win, though I am not acknowledging it.

Well...getting back on-topic, doesn't Qui-Gon have the experience factor? Not to mention more time using The Force? I mean, he has years of wielding the blade and also years of using The Force over Luke. Same goes for Vader of course, but Vader wasn't really trying to win. If Vader had been going for the kill, it woul dhave been more than Luke's hand that went flying off his body.

I say Mr. Jinn stomps on Luke. not a very short or long fight, but by no means close.

Wow, when I saw this I thought it said ESB Vader vs. Qui-Gon and then I was looking at the poll and I was like wtf? Luke? And then I realised it was the ESB Luke vs. Qui-Gon thread! 😛

Quinlan, don't try to trick us with that comic, when Luke fought Vader there Obi-Wan's spirit was controlling his body and Luke had the Kaiburr crystal.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Dude, you're really a noob. How in the world can you say Darth Vadre is very close to Darth Maul. Vader would comfortably defeat Maul. I would even go to say that Vader pwns Maul!!! Maul is good, no doubt, but Vader is a lot better. Just because he's in a suit doesn't mean he is as fast as a snail. His life-suit is not like Medieval armor, which is very heavy. This is the future, the suit is probably light weight. I highly doubt Vader's mobility is reduced more than half. I would say he is mybe 1/5 or perhaps 1/4 of his original speed. OMFG, Vader does not beat Qui-Gon barely. George Lucas says that Vader goes back up to 80-90% of Sidious, which is about Count Dooku's level. Vader is better than Tyrannus, but if we're assuming he's not, he'd still wipe the floor with Qui-Gon. You're just basing your claim on the movies. The choreography sucked back then, so Vader's powers were reduced badly. Vader would destroy Qui-Gon, and Luke would barely lose to Qui-Gon or win.

Err, Uh...hate to say, but actually...Vader's suit weighs about 1 ton.

Seriously.

But, it dosen't change the fact that Vader could still easily beat TPM Obi-Wan, Quinlan is definantly right about it.

Btw, If you want to know how Vader can move in such a heavy suit, just ask. ^^
I'll go into some detail and explain. 😎

Can we get on-topic? We're not talking about Vader/padawan Obi-Wan. We're talking about novice Luke/Master Qui-Gon.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Wow, when I saw this I thought it said ESB Vader vs. Qui-Gon and then I was looking at the poll and I was like wtf? Luke? And then I realised it was the ESB Luke vs. Qui-Gon thread! 😛

Quinlan, don't try to trick us with that comic, when Luke fought Vader there Obi-Wan's spirit was controlling his body [b]and Luke had the Kaiburr crystal. [/B]

I thought it was already said that SOTME is un-canon!

Well...getting back on-topic, doesn't Qui-Gon have the experience factor? Not to mention more time using The Force? I mean, he has years of wielding the blade and also years of using The Force over Luke. Same goes for Vader of course, but Vader wasn't really trying to win. If Vader had been going for the kill, it woul dhave been more than Luke's hand that went flying off his body.

Vader has tried to kill Luke before, but has failed. In ESB, Vader is not like a Dooku, he doesn't waste his time. He was going for Cho Sun (cutting off opponent's hand) as fast as possible in case of any potential threat. He wanted to recruit Luke but Luke held him off until the platform, where he then lost his arm. However, since Luke managed to fend off Vader so long he ends up hanging on a pole out of Vader's reach. Using this, he escapes by jumping down.

I say Mr. Jinn stomps on Luke. not a very short or long fight, but by no means close.

Wonderful proof you gave there mate, you really convinced me 🙄

Quinlan, don't try to trick us with that comic, when Luke fought Vader there Obi-Wan's spirit was controlling his body and Luke had the Kaiburr crystal.

I wasn't trying to trick you man. I saw the comic and was like "dude, Luke is uber!" Don't make false accusations darth.

Look how Luke (before ESB) takes out a group of vibroblade wielding warriors, even though he is blind. He uses the Force as his eyes. Quite impressive.

I don’t see how you guys can keep arguing. I have given good enough proof why Vader > Maul, and than Maul >> Qui-Gon and that Luke gave Vader a tough fight. Logically then, Luke would be on par with Qui-Gon, being only slightly worse. Use your brains people! People have even claimed ROTJ Luke > Maul, and since ESB Luke is lesser than ROTJ, we can definitely assume he is on level with Qui-Gon. I am not claiming Oh My God, Luke would pawn Qui-Gon, I am merely stating that Luke would lose but it would be close. There is no way Qui-Gon pwns Luke. It just won’t make sense.

Well, Jedi don't PWN. That's the way. Qui-Gon wouldn't rush in and just start pounding away at Luke's defenses. He'd stay on defense himself, fending off Luke's rather inexperienced strikes and wearing him down. I can definitely be certain Qui-Gon could hold off Luke's blade for a good while and Luke, being young and a novice, can not keep his energies and power repelnished via The Force. So, all Qui-Gon has to do is steadily fattigue Luke and then, he's toast.

And Maul beat Qui-Gon? Yeah. Well, his style and weapon vary greatly in Vader's own. So, even f Vader is above him in skill and strength, he is a vastly different opponent. I don't see Vader doing cartwheels in that suit to dodge saber strikes.

Originally posted by kamikz
I thought it was already said that SOTME is un-canon!

It is.

Ok...

Lol, now when you think about it, Luke with around of a week's traning is now put beside Mace Windu as of TPM here on KMC....

N no, I meant that it's true thats its NOT cannon.

N no, I meant that it's true thats its NOT cannon.

Books are canon, but they are NOT 100% credible sources as they tend to exaggerate people. Example, in ROTS novelization they say Anakin is the strongest of them all, which is not true as he is weaker than Yoda. SoTME is canon, but it contains exaggerations, especially the comic, though it's true to a certain extent.

Lol, now when you think about it, Luke with around of a week's traning is now put beside Mace Windu as of TPM here on KMC....

Mace Windu of TPM is an unknown. We don't even know if he has mastered Vapaad or if he is still in the process of completing Juyo. In thirteen years, Mace Windu could have improved greatly, especially in his war experience during the CW. Mace Windu of TPM could have been as strong as Maul for all you know. Second, it's only a phrase, it's not 100% to be believed.

Finally, in a way it sounds messed up, but Luke being on Qui-Gon's level makes sense in a way. LoTF Luke, which is Luke's highest form, is immensely powerful. Luke cannot start off as strong as Whie Malreux and hope to become that powerful. A Jedi's strength grows exponentially, and Luke's starting power has to be at a high level for him to be as strong as seven Yoda's. Vader himself has remarked that Luke is strong for his level of training.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Books are canon, but they are 100% credible sources as they tend to exaggerate people. Example, in ROTS novelization they say Anakin is the strongest of them all, which is not true as he is weaker than Yoda. SoTME is canon, but it contains exaggerations, especially the comic, though it's true to a certain extent.

That depends, Anakin IS the strongest of them all. As in, force wise he has the most potentiol of any Jedi, so yes he is the strongest of them all, but he does not know how to harness that power. If he were traiend to harness, he would be WTF destroying everything in his path.

True, but I believe the book was indicating ROTS Anakin.