ESB Luke vs. Qui-Gon Jinn

Started by Darth Sexiest5 pages

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos

Mace Windu of TPM is an unknown. We don't even know if he has mastered Vapaad or if he is still in the process of completing Juyo. In thirteen years, Mace Windu could have improved greatly, especially in his war experience during the CW. Mace Windu of TPM could have been as strong as Maul for all you know. Second, it's only a phrase, it's not 100% to be believed.

Mace Windu of TPM is NOT an unknown.
It is known that according to the official novel, Mace Windu had skills that were just slightly above those of Qui-Gon Jinn.

Also, Mace had completed his mastery of Juyo back while he was still a knight. He was a swordsman prodigy.
Back before the blockade of Naboo, and while it was still happening, Vapaad wasn't even a twinkle in Mace's eye. It wasn't even thought up yet.
Mace created Vapaad after the events of TPM but before the events of AotC, when there was a rumour among the Jedi spy network that a Sith Lord had somehow infiltrated the Republic Senate.
Yoda diden't think this was true, but Mace who was catious of the Dark side decided to prepare for an eventual confrontation with the mysterious "Sith Lord", whom Mace knew would be a highly formidable opponant once the two faced off.
So, he set off to use the ancients precipts for Juyo, to create a more expanded and mentally rounded form.
He used the concepts of fury, which was the root of power utilised in Juyo, and then used the higher Jedi Control disciplines to harness them.
He then used the well of emotion within the mind as a template for the power, and found a way to harness it, until he could expand it to skirt the Dark side.

Thats a basic explaination, at any rate.

But anyway, Mace is a known in TPM.

He didn't know Vapaad, but had already completely mastered Juyo, in all its aspects. 😮‍💨

Doesn't really matter. So has it been decided that Luke > Qui-Gon or not?

Not.

Definantly not.

So not, It's not even funny...

All right, bring it on man. Your arguments haven't really discredited mine anyway.

Oh, my bad. I meant to say it has it been decided Qui-Gon and Luke are near par with each other since Qui-Gon wins only by experience?

LOL, experience, amongst other things...

Your argument is useless bud.

This forum is like, "Bruce Lee VS The Karate Kid"

Qui-Gon is a Jedi Master who is just in a whole 'nother league than Luke.

He WTF Pwns him. Every. Single. Time. 😛

Yeah, only by experience can Qui-Gon beat Luke, otherwise they are literally almost equal with Qui-Gon being a bit better among certain things, like technique. However, if they fought, it would be a close battle no doubt.

And now I am going to do my homework, so I will debate with you tommorrow or later in the day.

I can see Qui-Gon being stronger, and faster as well.

More balance...

More tactical prowess...

etc.

Yeah, I hope your teacher gives you a gold star. 😛

Then you can pass on to the second grade...

Won't that be fun?

Qui-Gon, especially against ESB, is alot more skilled and powerful than Luke.
In this scenario he is a Jedi Master, whilst Luke is barely a half-trained apprentice.

So, Qui-Gon beats Luke.

Very, Very easily and very, very badly.

Yeah, Maul vs. ESB Luke without Maul using his saber would be close but Maul might win. And Qui-Gon held off Maul but wasn't as storng as Maul was.

But Qui-Gon WTFpwns Luke

No, Maul is not greatly inferior to Darth Vader. When they fought in the infintry it was damn close. And while the infintry isn't a canonical event in the sw history the events that happened within infintires are regarded as accurate, or as accurate as any otehr EU source is. C-Canon.

Because when Vader fought Luke, he was rusty and was also experiencing the same semi-crippling mental effect he had while dueling Obi-Wan on Mustafar.

The reputed and highly experienced Jedi Master, Qui-Gon Jinn, would have a clear and focused mind as he used his advanced and highly honed techniques and reflexes against the barely trained apprentice, Luke Skywalker.

In a masterful measure of technique and grace, he would move in during the beggining of the duel and dispatch Luke with one precise and agile attack.

He would drop Luke like a bad habit.

I highly doubt Vader could defeat Dooku. I would give that fight to Dooku 9/10 times. Furthermore I DO think that TPM Kenobi can give Vader a good fight but not necessarily win. Vader would have trouble with anyone as fast as Maul or Obi wan, and only his incredibly strength and force abilities would win him those fights.

So here is the summary of what Darth_Sexist, darthsith19, and the rest of Qui-Gon’s pwning society have claimed:

1.) Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, is on the level of Darth Maul, the young Sith Lord apprentice of the Darth Sidious. This makes Qui-Gon and Darth Vader very close on level. In fact, Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith can be given a good fight by Padawan Obi-Wan Kenobi.
2.) Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, wears a suit that wears about a ton. This makes Vader as fast as 1/8 of his original speed
3.) Luke, despite having an extreme potential, would be demolished by Qui-Gon Jinn, who got himself totally vanquished by Darth Maul.

Here is Quinlan_Vos's Argument:

ESB Luke:

- In ANH, he demonstrated that with only limited knowledge of the Force, he could guide his ship’s blaster perfectly into the hole of the Death Star
- In the Temple of Pomojema, he held Vader off and managed to sever the Dark Lord’s arm
- Managed to fight Darth Vader in his wrath by himself for an extended period of time

Maul as we know is greatly inferior to Darth Vader. Maul defeated Qui-Gon with ease (barely a minute after Qui-Gon healed himself). If Luke could hold off Darth Vader, I would say he’s pretty damn good.

Very well, I accept he loses to Qui-Gon, but to say he gets wtf pwned, dies in a second, is plain dumb logic.

Besides, Vader has probably never met a true double-wielding lightsaber Sith Lord before. And kamikz is right, Maul could have been struggling. People say Vader is greater than Dooku (which he is), and Dooku is a lot stronger than Maul. Qui-Gon got defeated with ease by Maul. Luke held off Vader for an extended period of time, see Trebor's quote. I don't see how Qui-Gon wtf pwns Luke. I see it as Qui-Gon barely wins, but Luke has a possiblity of winning.

Umm why can't he?? OMFG he can't move as fast, but his armor is not like a middle-age battle armor, which is hot & stiff suit and where you can barely move in! This is the future, his armor is probably cooled and flexible. Vader still knows his Djem So strength, plus he learns a one-handed version that uses the Force. Even Dooku has to stop for a second to use the Force. Vader can defeat Dooku, no doubt about it.

Mace Windu of TPM is an unknown. We don't even know if he has mastered Vapaad or if he is still in the process of completing Juyo. In thirteen years, Mace Windu could have improved greatly, especially in his war experience during the CW. Mace Windu of TPM could have been as strong as Maul for all you know. Second, it's only a phrase, it's not 100% to be believed.

Finally, in a way it sounds messed up, but Luke being on Qui-Gon's level makes sense in a way. LoTF Luke, which is Luke's highest form, is immensely powerful. Luke cannot start off as strong as Whie Malreux and hope to become that powerful. A Jedi's strength grows exponentially, and Luke's starting power has to be at a high level for him to be as strong as seven Yoda's. Vader himself has remarked that Luke is strong for his level of training.
This is so retarded. Are you saying then that TPM Padawan Obi-Wan Kenobi can give Vader a nice fight? This is so fu*cked up

Vader has defeated dozens of Jedi during his hunt for them. He can:

- Force Choke with great power
-Use his hands to dissappear energy from laser blasts
-Could hurl many items at his opponents while fighting, plus he uses Dun Moch
-Uses his fierce strength with his Djem So to create a barrage of crushing blows
-Has immense strength
-Trained regularly with ASP-19 Droids for practice, note these droids are faster than human

Plus a lot more.

I don't see how Tyrannus can beat him. Plus, Luke stood up to that!!! Maul would get pwned by Vader. And guess what, Qui-Gon got sliced up Maul! Luke would stand to Qui-Gon easily.

Dude, you're really a noob. How in the world can you say Darth Vadre is very close to Darth Maul. Vader would comfortably defeat Maul. I would even go to say that Vader pwns Maul!!! Maul is good, no doubt, but Vader is a lot better. Just because he's in a suit doesn't mean he is as fast as a snail. His life-suit is not like Medieval armor, which is very heavy. This is the future, the suit is probably light weight. I highly doubt Vader's mobility is reduced more than half. I would say he is mybe 1/5 or perhaps 1/4 of his original speed. OMFG, Vader does not beat Qui-Gon barely. George Lucas says that Vader goes back up to 80-90% of Sidious, which is about Count Dooku's level. Vader is better than Tyrannus, but if we're assuming he's not, he'd still wipe the floor with Qui-Gon. You're just basing your claim on the movies. The choreography sucked back then, so Vader's powers were reduced badly. Vader would destroy Qui-Gon, and Luke would barely lose to Qui-Gon or win.

So you're basing your claim on a comic. Now, I don't doubt the credibility of comics, but sometimes the illustrations are made for the entertainment of the reader, not to portray the flow of the battle as it would really happen.

Now Maul is good, no doubt, by logical terms, Vader is better from many standpoints.

Now for Luke vs. Qui-Gon.

After Qui-Gon "healed himself", Maul eliminated him within 30 seconds (I watched it on youtube). Maul doesn't even look wiped out, even though he fought Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan plus revitalized Qui-Gon!!!

Luke however lasted for a couple of minutes against Vader!!! With Vader being a lot more powerful than Maul.

Logically speaking, Qui-Gon might win only by experience and even then it's close. However, there is a definite possibility that luke could win, though I am not acknowledging it.

So who wins then?

LOL, give it up kid. Luke loses. Why can't you stop being in denial and just accept it? Heh.

Qui-Gon Jinn beats his rear.

Can't you understand that simple logic?

Mabye your in Special Ed instead of the first grade... box

Lolz Sexist, you should give up. I have totally owned all ur arguments. Qui-Gon wins but barely. Admit it, u just got pwned and ur trying to use reverse psychology on me.

Umm, btw, I'm Indian and I bet I am several times smarter than you in rl. My sister graduated with 3.98 GPA and I am vying for 4.0. I take all advanced courses. Plus, I am taking Argumentation, which involves mastoring Rhetoric.

I don't think Luke's omnipresent dumb luck would save him here.

QGJ would own.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Umm, btw, I'm Indian

Red dot or feather?

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Umm, btw, I'm Indian and I bet I am several times smarter than you in rl. My sister graduated with 3.98 GPA and I am vying for 4.0. I take all advanced courses. Plus, I am taking Argumentation, which involves mastoring Rhetoric.

If I may ask, what is "mastoring"?

Mastering, there happy little kitten?

Advent is a cute 'lil kitten. lol. 😛 🙄

Btw Quinlan, I feel bad that your disgracing your people by talking like such a retard.

You may be smarter in some areas than me I'll wager. But one thing's for sure.

You definantly aren't smarter than me in this thread. fish

I mean, If you were, you'd already know that Qui-Gon would drop ESB Luke like a bag of potatos.

But you don't.

Checkmate. renske