Originally posted by malhavok
Excellent link and post. Very cool and well thought out. Though I still contend that in his appearances that Doc is 'portrayed' at the 70 ton range. Shehulk, who is listed as 75 tons can leap 1000 feet. Doc, who WAS listed at 70 tons was listed also in the OHOTMUDE as being able to leap 910 feet. Pretty comparable, I think. And why I'd rank him at 70 tons rather than 85-90 tons upon retrospection. Also anyone laying the smack down on Rhino so easily does NOT have a normal 25 ton strength.Now, you may argue physics ... but physics has little to do with the powerhouses of the marvel universe or most universes. If so, the only way the powerhouses with dense flesh could hurt each other would be by grappling. The speed of the punch and their own body mass would be insufficient to hurt each other. The most they'd ever do would be to bounce off each other like croquet balls. If physics truly was a major factor, spidey could beat ANYONE. As his feet would stay matted to the ground and his punch would send anyone without a similar power flying. One must assume that the powerhouses in the marvel universe have some subconscious telekinesis or the like preventing them from making fools of themselves. (Pictures Rhino and Hulk crashing into each other, then bouncing about like a pinballs).
So, on the strength issue, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
But to get back to my original thought, ground strikes or sonic claps would probably be the only way to stop spidey. Smacking his fist into the concrete would probably work well, because the stone shard shrapnel would do serious damage to someone without dense flesh. (I've worked with a pick before on stone, and the flying stone chips are h*ll). Anyway, take care and thanks for the intelligent discussion and debate.
Yes, a 25 ton strength foe can lack a smackdown on much stronger foes (such as Rhino). Cap, bats, and wolverine have been hurting very high class strength dudes for years with their kicks alone. From that simple fact, hitting power doesn't truly estimate over the head pressing power. Since those guys can't even generate more than 3 tons of force. Yet their strikes are quite effective.
It all depends on where a character strikes a foe anyway. In comics, for some reason, the head seems to be the most vulnerable spot in the whole body. Hulk, Thing, etc. has taken some pretty serious things before yet they have been knock out by foes with much lower strength than them.
I don't believe Samson was consistently shown to press overhead more than 25 tons (maybe not at all). But many has estimated his strength from the type of foes he has hurt and owned before.
This is faulty since many characters such as Luke Cage, Spiderman, Captain America, Batman, Wolverine, etc. has been hurting and knocking out much higher strength class foes for years in which they were no where near these foe's strength.
Durability and Strength are two different things (even though the more strength one has the more durability they need to support that strength)
It is faulty to assume that a class 75-100 being should automatically withstand (without sustaining any damage or being knocked out) physical strikes from much lower strength foes. Again, this has been shown countless times by many characters.
With 25 tons strength (I believe Marvel), there is no way samson can perform a decent enough thunderclap either a ground attack. With 70 tons strength (which I think is falsely estimated from comics), samson also isn't strong enough to produce a groundattack that is faster and powerful enough for spidey to avoid. Hulk's strength when he did it was at least over 1,000 tons (as he was more and more enraged in the battle). Spidey has super speed and spider sense (his greatest power). He has dodge bullets and lasers (speed of light) that was homed to him like a day job. He has leaped, horizontally, hundreds of feet in the air while twisting, turning, and contortioning his body to avoid bullets and other fast attacks many times.
With spiderman's abilities, I considered it PIS that he got hit by Hulk's ground attack. Especially since Hulk punches much faster and was at a closer range and spidey was still able to easily dodge. No way in the heck can samson hit spidey with a ground attack (Even though he is not strong enough to initiate a decent enough one). Spider will simply leap at Samson at super speed and "Maximum Spider" ultimate combo finish him while he attempts such an attack.
Lastly, with 25 ton strength, a thunderclap from samson isn't going to do anything. Samson has never used it in all of his history. I believe writers knew he wasn't strong enough to produce an effective thunderclap. That is probably why you never seen it from him. Also, since spidey is faster and is around 20ton strength then he should be able to duplicate a samson's non effective thunderclap too (since speed is needed more than strength anyway in a thunderclap).