The hero's 12 steps

sorry this is a 4th post. I don't think I'm explain myself too well with why the 12 steps have started again.

when you look at Lord Of The Rings. They set out knowing it was all one story..so that entire pattern runs from start to finish..each movie did close..but it closed rather open ended...where Frodo was at a different stage each time it closed movie 1 for him ended on step 6 I would say because he just had one tough moment with allies, enemies and tests. He then looks over at mordor and prepares for the approach to the inmost cave...and he actually turns to sam..who is the one who gives him strength..he is the reason he doesn't turn back and flee IMO...

PotC1 had no intention to make a second unless it was a success..so all the 12 steps were in that movie from start to finish..and it was really about Will following them..not Liz and not Jack.. Jack was actually Will's mentor. Its only when he gets help from Jack does he actually take the first threshold and we see his character do something rather bold and different to how we first meet him (hating pirates...scared of Liz)...It seems as if Jack was Elizabeth's mentor too in that movie..as soon as Jack helps her from the water he frees her an dall of a sudden we see her start to change into her feisty pirate self..It seems as if originally, Liz was meant to be Jack's mentor in movie 1 ..but they actually totally CUT his suggestive change out of that wind change scene..they kept him mentor for some reason or another. (she's not his in movie 2/3 either because she's his elixir)

anyway..because they ended this story..fully closed..they decided to make another which is 2 parts..and the hero's steps start from scratch again because they have added in a new mentor..and I doubt there will be another in movie 3 because the 12 steps for each character have not ended yet by the time the movie has closed.

movie 2 is linked with movie 1 but movie 1 ended closed, enemy defeated..Will has his elixir... movie 2/3 there is now a new story..it ends on a cliff hanger unlike 1 and 3 new main enemies have been established one has been defeated but the other 2 are still there...and this time each character is following their own steps..Jack is no longer mentor to anyone because he is following his own..where as before Jack didn't really follow anything..you cant use that pattern with Jack over movie 1 I dont think..he has that good nature in him anyway from the very start to finish he didnt change by the end of movie1 at all really..he just made some friends lol(a little something more in liz although it was made really easy to miss). .I would say he was following some sort of steps had they left in that original wind change scene AND all the Jack/Liz ones(with the endingmeans he's learned something about her/himself)..but they didn't want to do that back then for some reason...Jack followed no ones orders but his own..he didn't listen to a mentor or anything...but he did have her on his mind by the end of movie 1..but you wouldnt think he had learned anything because of her..

Explained better here:

1) The Ordinary World. The hero is taken out of the ordinary world and is put into the Special World, in which the hero is a fish out of water.

2) The Call to Adventure. Thrust into the Special World, the hero is presented with a problem, challenge or adventure.

3) Refusal of the Call. The hero is reluctant to undertake the quest as presented. Fear of the unknown is one of mankind's greatest fears.

4) Mentor. The mentor is a Merlin-like character who meets or joins with the hero, offering advice, guidance or magical equipment.

5) Crossing the First Threshold. This is the point where the hero makes the decision to accept the quest.

6) Tests, Allies and Enemies. After crossing the first threshold, the hero begins to encounter tests, allies and enemies, all of which help to outline the rules of the Special World.

7) Approach to the Inmost Cave. This is really broken down into two parts. It is the point at which the hero comes to the most dangerous place in the Special World, usually the lair of the hero's greatest enemy. The approach is the time the hero takes to prepare, plan and deal with guards or traps. Then comes the confrontation in the most dangerous place.

8) The Ordeal. This is also called the 'black moment'. It is the point at which the hero faces the greatest challenge, and also the point at which the reader may wonder if the hero will survive.

9) Reward. This is also called seizing the elixir or seizing the sword. Once the hero survives the ordeal, it is time to celebrate and the hero receives some reward for surviving.

10) The Road Back. The hero must deal with the consequences of all that he/she has done in order to gain the reward. Often, the villain pursues the hero.

11) Resurrection. This is the second Ordeal, a time for the villain to again attack the hero.

12) Return With the Reward. The hero is able to return to the ordinary world with the reward. Sometimes the reward is not physical, but can be true love, freedom, wisdom or knowledge.

I'm wondering if Jack is at 10 actually..or is still going to hover on 10 for a while when movie 3 starts..I'm guessing there will be a new villain for Jack in movie 3...Will/Barbossa?

where do you think Liz is on this scale? I agree that I think Jack is at 9 as well

I think Liz is at number 5 ..she met the mentor then decided to go after Jack just before the movie closed

Jack may be at number 10

actually I dont know..I think its 9..LOL its confusing OMG i think its 9!! cuz will is gonna be PISSED when he comes back..he's gotta face the consequences and someone is gonna be pissed..its also gonna be Davy because Jack killed his beloved Kraken

Ah yes...so with dear Lizzie:

1) The Ordinary World. The hero is taken out of the ordinary world and is put into the Special World, in which the hero is a fish out of water.
Elizibeth is happy with Will..then all of a sudden she is placed with Jack..she's confused and scared with all of her new emotions for him flying about..

2) The Call to Adventure. Thrust into the Special World, the hero is presented with a problem, challenge or adventure.
Jack comes back for her..and is basically saying he needs her in his life, He wants her in his life to feel strong and brave.

3) Refusal of the Call. The hero is reluctant to undertake the quest as presented. Fear of the unknown is one of mankind's greatest fears.
Elizabeth is afraid to go with him..she's in denial still, she thinks she should stick with her old way of life..fear of the unknown..is fear of Jack...Jack saying Pirate to her is what prperly scares her off..he's saying she is one and he should be with her and this is what makes her finally leave IMO..she knows she wants him but is terrified to go with him.

4) Mentor. The mentor is a Merlin-like character who meets or joins with the hero, offering advice, guidance or magical equipment.
Meets with Tia..here she begins to feel guilty for refusing a man who needs her in his life..she refused the call to adventure...Tia offers her help to regain him

5) Crossing the First Threshold. This is the point where the hero makes the decision to accept the quest.
Liz accepts to rescue Jack..persue her elixir.

Ends for Liz.

Will:
1) The Ordinary World. The hero is taken out of the ordinary world and is put into the Special World, in which the hero is a fish out of water.
happy with Liz..all of a sudden he's thrown into the world of Jack again lol

2) The Call to Adventure. Thrust into the Special World, the hero is presented with a problem, challenge or adventure.
Jack asks Will to help him get the key to the chest which WILL lead him to his dad..not sure if Jack knows this or not

3) Refusal of the Call. The hero is reluctant to undertake the quest as presented. Fear of the unknown is one of mankind's greatest fears.
Will refuses to help find the key for Jack/refuses to be with his dad (although he doesnt know it) He does know his dad is alive somewhere though since movie 1 and I think that he is pushing him to the back of his mind because of Liz

4) Mentor. The mentor is a Merlin-like character who meets or joins with the hero, offering advice, guidance or magical equipment.
Helps guide will towards it/father

5) Crossing the First Threshold. This is the point where the hero makes the decision to accept the quest.
accepts to help his father..Liz is no longer his "quest."

6) Tests, Allies and Enemies. After crossing the first threshold, the hero begins to encounter tests, allies and enemies, all of which help to outline the rules of the Special World.

anyone care to help me here? 😂

...my eyes just got crossed eye by reading all this lol
i think im the one who needs help with my eyes

LMFAO! I just got banned from KTTC..someone totally dissed me, I fought back and theys banned me!!

😂
OMG ..someone insulted my intellegence so i fought back..and they ban me for defending myself..😂

hey link that thread...i wanna read....

right down the bottom of the page:

http://forums.keeptothecode.com//viewtopic.php?t=7086&start=720

I was getting a bit frustrated because lots of people seem to think I'm off my case on that forum because I'm passionate about film studies.and I hate being told I dont know anything because I studied the darn things for 3 years..the ins and outs, the workings of them..the history of hollywood..present day hollywood..the hero's 12 steps..I didnt do all that to be told with stupid little sarcastic faces..and that I need some elixir because I'm talking nonsense..

god am feeling rather bitter..I did overreact bit but I felt attacked..thats the only reason I did that..I thought Lizzie ws attacking me..

I think you're awesome, LovelyOne. You remind me of a friend I had on the Phantom board named Honeywriter that found hidden clues in that movie. I felt she and you both bring to the table a lot more than "Johnny's so hot."
To talk about Liz, I don't think it's fair to her that we're talking about the steps of a HERO and are applying them to her love interest. We aren't doing that to Jack even though we're very preoccupied with his love life. I think we need to apply the steps to her in the same way we would with anyone- her process in becoming a hero, which she is.

ok LovelyOne u can hire me to be the hitman, well uh hitgurl lol. and ill kill all those idiots from KTTC those ppl were mean when they said to lovelyone "dont call us deary nor hun cus were not 10 years old" WELL THEY ARE SURE ACTING LIKE IT THOSE BASTARDS!!! i poo poo on them!

Originally posted by willofthewisp
I think you're awesome, LovelyOne. You remind me of a friend I had on the Phantom board named Honeywriter that found hidden clues in that movie. I felt she and you both bring to the table a lot more than "Johnny's so hot."
To talk about Liz, I don't think it's fair to her that we're talking about the steps of a HERO and are applying them to her love interest. We aren't doing that to Jack even though we're very preoccupied with his love life. I think we need to apply the steps to her in the same way we would with anyone- her process in becoming a hero, which she is.

LOL ta..you know what..I think the steps her and Jack are following are to do with their love interests..even Jack he refused the call to help her because of his little fear of making her an obligation in his life.

..honestly Tia seems to be helping them both out with that instead of what the initially go to her for.as Harris said: "she has the ability to look through people into their hearts and true desires"..the mentor seems to be helping them with that elixir rather than their fake ones etc.
..even will..she sends him to the onne thing he's wanted most since he was a child.

I think Elizabeth is going to save Jack from someone possibly Beckett later on when she gets to her supreme ordeal..

the thing that gets me is how Jack faced a physical barrier to gain the elixir..and he also had to cross some emotional ones at the same time..his problem was making her an obligation in his life and he overcame that emotional barrier..

Tia seems to be helping them sort of emotionally accept one another..by crossing physical barriers too.

chikimina!! thanks hun

yeah lovelyone, i just read that forum... you didnt over-react at all. really. if anything, they are the ones constantly over-reacting but not allowing people to defend themselves. its scary. they are like, socialists.
this forums are meant to explore DEEP into the movie. if they are content to scratch the surface, thats not our problem. heck we could be way off on some of our stuff, we thats the fun of it--- exploring ALL the angles, ALL the possibilities, really getting in depth with it. and i dont know how ANYONE could logically refute the 12 steps. please. lol.

Thanks katelovespirate..🙂 you are so right...even Ted said that was the point of the movie on KTTC they made it like that so that people will be trying to figure little things out lol.

Jack totally has his elixir(lizziebeth!)..there are 2..(one that kinda does) things that hint it 😂

1) he gets HIS hat back once he kisses her and in that scene..it was absent from her head all of a sudden..where as she was wearing it symbolically throughout the entire movie before hand..from when she met him in tortuga to the part whre he comes back for her and she kisses him.

2) The dog( symbolizes Jack) is sitting on Jack's old thrown with a bone in his mouth as if he is a king with his prize after the credits ..he no longer has the keys (old way of life)..he's got his bone...something NEW in his life to protect and love..also a bone is what makes a dog happiest in life and it symbolizes that Liz is what makes him happiest in life..

3) The kraken itself..he was fearing facing up to it as s responsibility..and he was also fearing making Liz an obligation in life..and when the two came together he faced up to both..and basically decided to ake her an obligation in his life.... He basically allowed the kraken to swallow him with his "not so bad..hello beastie" he's ready to have Liz in his life by the time the movie ends..he's got his elixir.

what makes me laugh is what the kraken does to him when he turns round and faces up to it..IMO it explains EXACTLY how that kiss made Liz feel i..there's no nice and clean way to put it..so I'll just say it. The taste of the waffle was like an "orgy" in her mouth lol 😂..you can totally see how much that kiss affected her "physically"..never ONCE seen her look that physically affected after a kiss with Wiliam..the savoury and safe feast..

here's a quote from TR you might find interesting (im researching these darn writers today lol):

HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES

Consider what sort of hero is demanded by your story genre. The DRAMATIC HERO succeeds due to his best efforts. The TRAGIC HERO fails despite his best efforts. And the COMIC HERO succeeds despite his best efforts -- usually to avoid heroism.
Rick in CASABLANCA is an example of a dramatic hero. Oedipus is the classic tragic hero, doomed from the start, no matter what he does. Bilbo Baggins of "The Hobbit" is a great comic hero, resisting the hero's call nearly to the end. (At the very end of a comedy, it's quite satisfying to let the comic hero have the same victory of the dramatic hero; another example, consider the ending of GHOSTBUSTERS.)

---Going by this quote, I reckon this ties in with Jack continuing to pull sketchy moves in 3... like trading Liz. but EVENTUALLY he WILL accept the call and hopefully succeed in EVERYTHING< including winning the girl.

I think he altready has her but he needs to return home with her..funny how its in singapore which seems to be his home..he's just gotta face up to the consequences of getting her..will..liz herself..his own emotions lol..its not just a physical elixir its an emotional one..as well as physical lol..he already took up the hero's call at the end of DMC 😄

thanks for the quote 😄

I think he already has her too, which is why it will be so interesting when they meet up again.
What was going on in Singapore during that time? Did the writers just pick it because it sounded exotic? Jack does have a history there, but it seems he has a history everywhere. If he didn't live here for a long time, I don't know what other significance it could have.

Hmm, Jack and Liz out in an Asian garden, maybe a little pond nearby with a bunch of lotus flowers....and them in their pirate outfits. Oh well. The sun's just starting to set, little birds and frogs are making background noise. How will they be able to resist each other?

Interesting:

According to Vogler's categories, to engage viewers, at the beginning of a film a character should be conceived as a person who lives a stable but rather problematic life. His/her existence is satisfying only in appearance, because his/her personality hides weaknesses -- sometimes in terms of values, more often, when the model is strictly respected, both in terms of the capacity of accepting reality and in terms of psychological inhibitions. The real story of a main character, then, begins when a messanger interrupts his daily routine and calls him to the adventure. If the hero answers positively, he/she enters a new dimension, assisted by an old and expert mentor: the hero leaves the ordinary, apparently well-known world, to make a journey in a special, unknown land. Here, after hard training, having overcome many trials, and having defeated his/her antagonist in a supreme ordeal, the character will attain full knowledge of himself. In this way, his/her personality will be completed; the different sides of his/her psyche will be balanced; the person will become strong enough to deal with the fatal flaw.

The more important result of the character's efforts is therefore a fresh, new glance at life. It is the attitude of feeling in harmony with the world and with people, now seen in a perspective -- perhaps eccentric but profound -- rooted in the experience of truth: the truth he has gained through his extrordinary journey. In other words, it is possible to say that the hero returns in his ordinary world empowered with "an elisir".

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LIZ UNCOMFORTABLE WITH FEELINGS FOR JACK..poor Liz had the whole friggin movie stuck in that uncomfortable stage lmao..remember she wasnt called to adventure by anyone she broke out herself and Jack was on the mind from the very beginning IMO..and she was uncomfortable with it...the call to adventure was Jack coming back for her on the pearl..

I'm wondering if Jack is her mentor..although he doesn't teach her anything new really...IMO thats her ordinary world still because she's looking for will but is dissatisfied hence the fact her compass is pointing at Jack...and she's having trouble accepting it:

"his/her personality hides weaknesses -- sometimes in terms of values, more often, when the model is strictly respected, both in terms of the capacity of accepting reality and in terms of psychological inhibitions."

same goes for Jack at the start.