Originally posted by sonnet
The proof I have you cannot understand because you look at it with blinded eyes. Accept God so that you can see.
So I have to believe God exists to believe God exists? Well..I could have found that out myself.
But you know that planes fly because science is right and can give proof of that and not because I believe planes could fly, right?
Originally posted by sonnet
I do realise that,... because we as Christians do not see it as sircular reasoning because the Bible is our source of Knowledge of God and thus source of authority. As it was put inthe the intro, there is no higher source of authority. But the rest of the world sees it as sircular reasoning because they do not believe that we can use the Bible as our source, we have to find proof of God that falls favourately on the ears of the world.
The quotes I used tells us that God gives us the knowledge and proof we need through His Word, Jesus and His spirit and that Satan who is of this world is trying to blind us into believing that the only source of knowledge is through scientific reasoning. If people can quote scientific pages then surely I can quote my source of knowledge or are you being discriminitive.
Because your quote did not go towards establishing an argument, it was just a worthless accusation at me.
I'll refer you to my first post in this thread about why we should stick to scientific reasoning; to do otherwise is utter foolishness and will result in all your arguments being disregarded, and with damn good reason.
Our eyes are not blinded, Sonnet. Your so-called 'proof' is at fault. Your mentality is no better than that of the brainwashed cult adherent, and no more convincing.
JIA, if you think showing a picture of a car next to a stylished picture of some objects in space and think that that proves that science is wrong, ID is true and that using the Bible to prove the Bible is not circular reasoning, then you have long ago left the realm of any sense, logic or hope.
Originally posted by Bardock42
So I have to believe God exists to believe God exists? Well..I could have found that out myself.But you know that planes fly because science is right and can give proof of that and not because I believe planes could fly, right?
Not quite, corn-fritter (just joking) you must acknowledge that you don't know everything there is to know about everything there is to know (did I just confuse myself?).
No seriously, God is a "faith" God (faith pleases God) and so He has ordained that those who come to Christ, do so by faith. Salvation through Jesus Christ can only be appropriated by faith, personal faith. Once you in essence confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and believe in you heart that God has raised Him from the dead, then at that precise moment God intervenes as such and gives you the faith to believe. Right now you don't have faith to believe because you don't have faith and because you are being blinded by the god of this age (satan). The Truth of the gospel is veiled to you.
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.
This verse is referring to Christians. God has given to each one of us the measure of faith. But unbelievers do not have faith for salvation. That is why God sent preachers to preach so that faith can come.
Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
The Word of God (the Bible) is the mainstay of faith. In other words, faith is based on what God says in His Word. But faith comes by hearing, and hearing (ad infinitum i.e. repeatedly hearing, not just once or twice) the Word of God.
2 Corinthians 4:2-4
But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Because your quote did not go towards establishing an argument, it was just a worthless accusation at me.I'll refer you to my first post in this thread about why we should stick to scientific reasoning; to do otherwise is utter foolishness and will result in all your arguments being disregarded, and with damn good reason.
Our eyes are not blinded, Sonnet. Your so-called 'proof' is at fault. Your mentality is no better than that of the brainwashed cult adherent, and no more convincing.
JIA, if you think showing a picture of a car next to a stylished picture of some objects in space and think that that proves that science is wrong, ID is true and that using the Bible to prove the Bible is not circular reasoning, then you have long ago left the realm of any sense, logic or hope.
Again, the reasoning that scientific reasoning holds primacy is because the world around us is a direct and observabale result of it. Check my first post in this thread once more.
This is another reason religion is slowly dying.
And the quote was clearly aimed at me.
Meanwhile, JIA and sonnet, you still continue to do absolutely nothing to deflect the issue of the Bible used to justify the Bible as circular reasoning, hence it will continue to be treated as such. And so will do you no good in trying to win any argument or convince anyone of anything.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Not quite, corn-fritter (just joking) you must acknowledge that you don't know everything there is to know about everything there is to know (did I just confuse myself?).No seriously, God is a "faith" God (faith pleases God) and so He has ordained that those who come to Christ do so by faith. Salvation through Jesus Christ can only be appropriated by faith, personal faith. Once you in essence confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and believe in you heart that God has raised Him from the dead, then at that precise moment God intervenes as such and gives you the faith to believe. Right now you don't have faith to believe because you don't have faith and because you are being blinded by the god of this age (satan). The Truth of the gospel is veiled to you.
[B]Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.This verse is referring to Christians. God has given to each one of us the measure of faith. But unbelievers do not have faith for salvation. That is why God sent preachers to preach so that faith can come.
Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
The Word of God (the Bible) is the mainstay of faith. In other words, faith is based on what God says in His Word. But faith comes by hearing, and hearing (ad infinitum i.e. repeatedl hearing, not just once or twice) the Word of God.
2 Corinthians 4:2-4
But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. [/B]
Did you read this Bardock?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Not quite, corn-fritter (just joking) you must acknowledge that you don't know everything there is to know about everything there is to know (did I just confuse myself?).
I know that, that's why I think in probabilities, but do you?
You don't know everything either. Why do you think you can be sure God (without any evidence) exists, but I can't be sure that something with a lot of evidence (evolution) exists?
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Again, the reasoning that scientific reasoning holds primacy is because the world around us is a direct and observabale result of it. Check my first post in this thread once more.
Funny thing is that a lot of scientific reasoning is based on theories. The funny thing about theories is that they can still change..... if you want to base primacy on that, go on ahead. I will believe in the only truth, God.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I know that, that's why I think in probabilities, but do you?You don't know everything either. Why do you think you can be sure God (without any evidence) exists, but I can't be sure that something with a lot of evidence (evolution) exists?
See, that is what you don't get: there is evidence all around you but you cannot discern, perceive, or recognize it as such(yet) because of your spiritual blindness.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
See, that is what you don't get: there is evidence all around you but you cannot discern, perceive, or recognize it as such(yet) because of your spiritual blindness.
That's the difference, the evidence of my views can be seen by everybody, always and everywhere. Which is why they are so true.
Originally posted by sonnet
Funny thing is that a lot of scientific reasoning is based on theories. The funny thing about theories is that they can still change..... if you want to base primacy on that, go on ahead. I will believe in the only truth, God.
No, nearly ALL of it is based on theory. And yes, that can change, unlike dogmatic religion, which cannot. Another victory for Science. You cannot try to combat me with one of science's strengths.
What makes a theory a theory rather than just a hypothesis is the existence of evidence. A theory is refined and improved over time as more evidence becomes available.
What is not reasonable- never reasonable- is to think something is so when there is absolutely no evidence for it, outside of the realm of philosophical debate.
Your idea that there is evidence for God is simply a statement with no backing. There IS no such evidence, and you saying there is does not change that.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, nearly ALL of it is based on theory. And yes, that can change, unlike dogmatic religion, which cannot. Another victory for Science. You cannot try to combat me with one of science's strengths.What makes a theory a theory rather than just a hypothesis is the existence of evidence. A theory is refined and improved over time as more evidence becomes available.
What is not reasonable- never reasonable- is to think something is so when there is absolutely no evidence for it, outside of the realm of philosophical debate.
Your idea that there is evidence for God is simply a statement with no backing. There IS no such evidence, and you saying there is does not change that.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
See, that is what you don't get: there is evidence all around you but you cannot discern, perceive, or recognize it as such(yet) because of your spiritual blindness.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Once more- you simply SAYING there is evidence means nothing. Again, it is no stronger than the word of a delusional cult member.The objective fact remains that the evidence is not there.
You must be in the final stages of utter delusion if you can't see the world around you is evidence of God's existence. Oh, I get it: you are alluding to your tenuous view of evolution not having any evidence.
Again, any delusional person can simply say there is lots of invisible evidence that no-one else can see. Deano does it in the Conspiracy area all the time.
But once more, by the same rationale that built cars and cities and modern cilvilisation and this computer that I am now making this post on, I see evidence for evolution, absolutely none for what you talk about, and hence absolutely no credibility, sense or rationality behind what you say at all.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You must be in the final stages of utter delusion if you can't see the world around you is evidence of God's existence. Oh, I get it: you are alluding to your tenuous view of evolution not having any evidence.
But there are many other explanations for the world around us. So it's sole existence is not proof for God.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Once more- you simply SAYING there is evidence means nothing. Again, it is no stronger than the word of a delusional cult member.The objective fact remains that the evidence is not there.
hysterical
That statement should be in the Guinness Book of World Records for most abusurd comment ever made by a human being.