Circular Reasoning?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Since JIA seemed scared by these questions maybe you would like to have a shot:

1: Is it right for a human to claim to be above man made laws?

2: If that human claims he is beyond crime because he can not be charged with a crime does that mean he is good, no matter what he does?

3: Has God killed?

4: If a human had done what God had done would that human be guilty of murder?

5: If the "I am above the laws" clause was removed would God be sinless?

6: As a human being with supposed free will can you honestly say you have no problem with a God that would never let itself be held accountable for its actions? That its laws aren't good enough to bind it as well?

It is, I feel, the height of horror when such lines appear: "And yes, God is above the Law by necessity as its creator." That is the kind of logic that kings and Emperors worked on. They claimed to be above the laws they supposedly represented. Laws were for the lessors, not for the "creators."

Is that right in your view? Do you truly mean to say you have no problem with the idea of a God who has admitted to being subject to poor emotions like jealousy and who has killed on a massive scale claiming to be sinless? Is it right he will never be reviewed for this? Power corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I find it so lamentable there are people who are prepared to accept claims of "I am above the law" so easily. No wonder the acts of tyrants could go unchallenged.

Let me give it a try:

1. Maybe. It depends on he/she does.
2. Maybe. It depends on he/she does.
3. It all depends on what you mean by god. If we are talking about the Christian god, the answer would be: no. This god is man made and therefore cannot do anything.
4. If a human had done what the bible says that god has done then the answer is yes.
5. See answer to question 3.
6. I have a big problem with a God that would never let itself be held accountable for its actions.

How was that? 😆

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Let me give it a try:

1. Maybe. It depends on he/she does.
2. Maybe. It depends on he/she does.
3. It all depends on what you mean by god. If we are talking about the Christian god, the answer would be: no. This god is man made and therefore cannot do anything.
4. If a human had done what the bible says that god has done then the answer is yes.
5. See answer to question 3.
6. I have a big problem with a God that would never let itself be held accountable for its actions.

How was that? 😆

Very good.

And yes, it was operating under the concept of the Christian God in the eyes of those followers who think he is real - so for 3 it would be yes, because for a believer God is real and he has certainly killed.

I considered adding one about sadism, but thought that might be a bit hard for them to deal with.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
[b]Eye for an Eye

Turn the Other Cheek....

Two entirely contradicting philosophies both within the same religious text. If you argue that I do not understand them because I somehow lack the necessary "insight" to understand, then I challenge you to clarify how they are not contradictory. [/B]

Originally posted by sonnet
It will only appear to be contradictory if you do not know the history and events in which these phrases were said.
1 Eye for an eye is from Exodus 21 (also in Leviticus) were God instructed Moses to give His people, the Israelites, God's laws. This happened after Moses gave them the Ten Commandments. These laws were given to God's chosen people as general laws "of life".
2. Turn the other cheek... Jesus said these words in Matthew 5:38. It talks about when a person is confronted by a evil (KJV) / a wrongdoer or a person who does evil/bad things. Jesus brought us a new Law and came to show us forgiveness. Not only did He came to bring us salvation from sins (ultimate forgiveness from God) but also to teach us to forgive others. He also said that we should not seek vengeance, for vengeance is for God to take when the time comes. So you see the one phrase is under the laws of Israelites for the Israelites, the other is for the us when we deal with evil/ wrongdoers. Because of Jesus we are placed under a new law / covenant, one were forgiveness is vital. It also says in the Bible that how can God forgive us if we refuse to forgive others.

Thanks for your response, but it does not actually answer my question.

1) "Eye for an Eye" was used in Jewish Government as a way to be fair and just to one's wrong doing. Jesus Christ came and abolished that notion.

2) Turn the Other Cheek- when evil is done to you, do not retaliate, but offer more of yourself.

According to "Eye for an Eye" a human being has the right to harm another human being if he is harmed first.

Leviticus 24:18 says, "And he that killeth a beast shall make it good; beast for beast."

Also, for God to kill all the first born Egyptian sons, send the plagues and disease, and attack the nation of Egypt for what one Pharoah did is not only irrational but hypocritical.

"Thou shalt not kill".....it's bad when human beings do it, but it's somehow okay when God does it 🙄

So God can commit "sin" and it's not sin, but when Man does it, it's wrong ? A hypocrit of a God you worship !

Then at the same time : "A man shalt not lay with another man as he would layeth with a woman. For that is detestable and punishable by death

A quote which clearly encourages the murder of homosexual men.

If God's word is truly perfect, then why have so many "mistranslations" been made and contradictions been clear and present ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Thanks for your response, but it does not actually answer my question.
1) According to "Eye for an Eye" a human being has the right to harm another human being if he is harmed first.
Leviticus 24:18 says, "And he that killeth a beast shall make it good; beast for beast."
Also, for God to kill all the first born Egyptian sons, send the plagues and disease, and attack the nation of Egypt for what one Pharoah did is not only irrational but hypocritical.
"Thou shalt not kill".....it's bad when human beings do it, but it's somehow okay when God does it 🙄
So God can commit "sin" and it's not sin, but when Man does it, it's wrong ?Then at the same time : "A man shalt not lay with another man as he would layeth with a woman. For that is detestable and punishable by [b]deathA quote which clearly encourages the murder of homosexual men. If God's word is truly perfect, then why have so many "mistranslations" been made and contradictions been clear and present ? [/B]

And how do you know that GOd is beyond sin and is righteous?

And dont say the bible says so. Yes it was inspired by the divine and all of that. But we dont exactly know things bout god. God can't tell us stuff bout itself and we take that as THE word. Without someone to collaborate then we cant be entirely sure.

I AM sure God is not perfect. WE only make God seem perfect.

but then again saying this to you is going to be completely wasted. Most of the people here who believe in god, dont think that God is perfect.

Originally posted by fini
And how do you know that GOd is beyond sin and is righteous?

And dont say the bible says so. Yes it was inspired by the divine and all of that. But we dont exactly know things bout god. God can't tell us stuff bout itself and we take that as THE word. Without someone to collaborate then we cant be entirely sure.

I AM sure God is not perfect. WE only make God seem perfect.

but then again saying this to you is going to be completely wasted. Most of the people here who believe in god, dont think that God is perfect.

Well since God is an infinite entity its a waste of time considering wether it is perfect or not. Just focus on the aspects of God that you like.

Originally posted by sonnet
When are you going to get the picture?
God made the law
We obey the law
God cannot sin, we sin when we disobey the law.
When we sin or disobey then it is God's right ot punish for He is God. So if He says that some act like homosexuality is a sin and punishable by death then we should not commit that sin. If we do, we accept the consequences and then do not have the right to moan about the punishment.
Personally I think that an eye for an eye is a very good system of justice. It will make people think twice about harming others or stealing etc. I cannot but wonder what would happen to our crime levels if governments would bring in that law. I think we would sleep peacefully at night again. God is a righteous God and knew how to set up punishment for evil.

Originally posted by ThePittman
That is total BS; it would be like your parent telling you not to do drugs and smoking pot in front of you. That would make God a total hypocrite, no wonder why angels rebelled against him.

😆

Originally posted by sonnet
When are you going to get the picture?
God made the law
We obey the law
God cannot sin, we sin when we disobey the law.
When we sin or disobey then it is God's right ot punish for He is God. So if He says that some act like homosexuality is a sin and punishable by death then we should not commit that sin. If we do, we accept the consequences and then do not have the right to moan about the punishment.
Personally I think that an eye for an eye is a very good system of justice. It will make people think twice about harming others or stealing etc. I cannot but wonder what would happen to our crime levels if governments would bring in that law. I think we would sleep peacefully at night again. God is a righteous God and knew how to set up punishment for evil.

First, I think you should move to Saudi Arabia. They have those kinds of laws there. However, they will not allow you to be Christian.

What you said above is a lie. Not that you are lying, but the people in power a long time ago lied to keep control over the masses.

Your god did not make the law, Constantine did. You should read about him.

Originally posted by sonnet
When are you going to get the picture?
God made the law
We obey the law

According to your myth.....

Originally posted by sonnet
God cannot sin, we sin when we disobey the law.

That's like a Dictator making laws for all his people, but breaking his own laws any time he wishes. Your statement right here makes God a hypocrit. I dislike hypocritical dieties....

Originally posted by sonnet
When we sin or disobey then it is God's right ot punish for He is God. So if He says that some act like homosexuality is a sin and punishable by death then we should not commit that sin. If we do, we accept the consequences and then do not have the right to moan about the punishment.

Okay...what consequences are you talking about ? So far, I have had a very great and enjoyable life !

Oh wait..lemme guess....I'm going to burn in Hell for all eternity....a Hell that your God created.......can someone day "sadistic dictator" ?

Originally posted by sonnet
Personally I think that an eye for an eye is a very good system of justice. It will make people think twice about harming others or stealing etc. I cannot but wonder what would happen to our crime levels if governments would bring in that law. I think we would sleep peacefully at night again. God is a righteous God and knew how to set up punishment for evil.

"Eye for an Eye" is an ineffective system. Texas is notorious for having Death Penalty, but there are still murders and crimes occuring in Texas all the time. Same in New York, crime is still high even though Death Penalty is one of the punishments of the system.

You like the "eye for an eye" system, even though Jesus Christ denounced it....I guess you're going to Hell just like me 😱

Two wrongs do not make a Right ❌

I think that is exactly what Jesus Christ was trying teach us. The fact that you are blindly ignoring this, and only using religion to strengthen the bias and hatred you already possess is disgusting and worthy of no respect.

So God punishes evil with MORE EVIL ?...seems illogical, irrational, hypocritical, and untrue.

And trust me......the DEATH PENALTY, or any kind of bloodshed or vengeance is the LAST FKN THING that would help people sleep better at night. You poor Fool ❌

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

Your god did not make the law, Constantine did. You should read about him.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen

And trust me......the DEATH PENALTY, or any kind of bloodshed or vengeance is the [b]LAST FKN THING that would help people sleep better at night. You poor Fool ❌ [/B]

Originally posted by sonnet
It just shows how sick society became that they can take a murderer and a rapist who destroys life and say he deserves his life. To hell with the life he took or destroyed - that is the attitude it seems. You are the fool.

Does killing him fix the problem?

How can we expect to be better than murdereres if we murder ourselves?

Originally posted by Alliance
Does killing him fix the problem?

How can we expect to be better than murdereres if we murder ourselves?

Originally posted by sonnet
I have read about him. God gave the laws to the Israelites. I am sure it could not have been Constantine, he came around MUCH later.

"Oh im SURE!!!...."

Originally posted by sonnet
It just shows how sick society became that they can take a murderer and a rapist who destroys life and say he deserves his life. To hell with the life he took or destroyed - that is the attitude it seems. You are the fool.

If you truly want the murderer or rapist to suffer then you would give him or her Life In Prison. Death Penalty is actually quite merciful, as it is done once, and then over.

Life In Prison would not only give the criminal the time to reflect on the horrors that he or she comitted, but they would also suffer harassment, violence, and constant threats of death from other inmates and guards.

You have no true idea what my stance on the matter is. It shows you quick to judge you are, so typically Christian and how immature your logic is.

If the point is justice, then Life in Prison not only SERVES Justice greatly, but also prevents us from lowering to the same level as the murderer.

You feel it is okay to punish a SIN with the SAME SIN ?

Remember: Thou shalt not kill...Why can't you follow your own rules? Or do you only pay attention to the Biblical passages that justify your anger, bias, and hate while ignoring the REST ? That's what most Christians do !

Originally posted by sonnet
I have read about him. God gave the laws to the Israelites. I am sure it could not have been Constantine, he came around MUCH later.

The only clear laws that God gave the Isrealites were the Ten Commandments.

The Ten Commandments do not support your stance on the death penalty, nor do they support your other biases. In fact, they actually contradict your biases. That is probably why you ignore them and hardly touch on the subject.

As a comfort technique to justify your own evil, you pay attention to the Biblical passages that promote violence, discrimination, and wrath. That is quite pathetic on your part. ✅

Originally posted by sonnet
I have read about him. God gave the laws to the Israelites. I am sure it could not have been Constantine, he came around MUCH later.

You do not follow the law of the Jews. You are a Christian and therefore a follower of Constantine.

Originally posted by sonnet
When are you going to get the picture?
God made the law
We obey the law
God cannot sin, we sin when we disobey the law.
When we sin or disobey then it is God's right ot punish for He is God. So if He says that some act like homosexuality is a sin and punishable by death then we should not commit that sin. If we do, we accept the consequences and then do not have the right to moan about the punishment.
Personally I think that an eye for an eye is a very good system of justice. It will make people think twice about harming others or stealing etc. I cannot but wonder what would happen to our crime levels if governments would bring in that law. I think we would sleep peacefully at night again. God is a righteous God and knew how to set up punishment for evil.

Then what happens if you put someone to death and find out that they didn’t commit the crime, then you are guilty of murder in the eyes of God because one you past judgment and then killed.