Congress Grants Unconditional Power to Bush

Originally posted by docb77
Those terrorist scum ceased to be human a long time ago and therefore don't deserve "human rights".

The problem with any torture is that it becomes overused. It becomes a lazy man's interrogation technique.

Originally posted by docb77
So all you really want is an opinion? OK, here's one, and it's just as valid as yours:

Those terrorist scum ceased to be human a long time ago and therefore don't deserve "human rights".

Our soldiers on the other hand (the ones who get beheaded on video if they get captured), should be treated according to the geneva conventions.

Like the terrorists are going to change the way they treat our guys if we change the way we treat theirs, give me a break.

they are terror SUSPECTS. anyone can be a suspect. lets sit you down and explain due process.

yes i get it. our soldiers are real humans, as opposed to those brown people who live on top of our oil. they look like terrorists, so if suspect they automatically are not human. great logic 👆
now i see. we must become a nation of lowlife sadistic scumbags because the terrorists are lowlife sadistic scumbags.

Originally posted by PVS
While Democrats warned the bill could open the way for abuse, Republicans said defeating the bill would put the country at risk of another terrorist attack.

Great ! The entire Bush´s politics is based on 'preventing terrorist attacks' , and this is serving as a excuse to make wars, torture people, and other kinds of abuse of power.

We don´t even know if there was really a terrorist attack. For me that is just a way to allow more severe and unrestricted use of power.

We live in a democracy and what people think matters, so there must be a "justification" if you will want to make something agaisnt the the will of the people and against democracy.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Who cares if it is on the same level, it is both against the humanistic ideals the US pretends to stand for.

That is the whole point, you are equating a beheading for the sole purpose of spreading fear as being equal to keeping a guy awake past this bedtime to gain information that could save lifes.

I am not for torture at all personally, but if lives are at stake and a criminal has information that could save those lifes, keep the fcker up a few days, blast him with Manilow, make him sleep naked in a cold room.

The only problem I do see here is this 'torture' going unchecked and stepping into the lines of real torture i.e. severe beatings, starvation, burnings etc.

Originally posted by Robtard
That is the whole point, you are equating a beheading for the sole purpose of spreading fear as being equal to keeping a guy awake past this bedtime to gain information that could save lifes.

deliberate lying and dressing down of the issue. speaking of sleeping at night, how do you do it?

Originally posted by Robtard
The only problem I do see here is this 'torture' going unchecked and stepping into the lines of real torture i.e. severe beatings, starvation, burnings etc.

we've BEEN doing that!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Robtard
That is the whole point, you are equating a beheading for the sole purpose of spreading fear as being equal to keeping a guy awake past this bedtime to gain information that could save lifes.

I am not for torture at all personally, but if lives are at stake and a criminal has information that could save those lifes, keep the fcker up a few days, blast him with Manilow, make him sleep naked in a cold room.

The only problem I do see here is this 'torture' going unchecked and stepping into the lines of real torture i.e. severe beatings, starvation, burnings etc.

I am not. Beheading is worse in my book. Keeping someone awake in the cold for 72 hours is wrong to me as well...

Originally posted by PVS
then you are just as amoral as those who torture our troops and thus no better. what makes you better? "they started it?" please, say that so it will be clear for all to see....say it.

Fine, I'll say it, I don't give a shit. I'm a firm believer in revenge getting your just desserts.

For such a litigious nation things like detention without charge, the extraction of evidence or information by way of torture or duress, and the reversal of the presumption of innocence seem to go down pretty easily. Curiouser and curiouser.

Originally posted by docb77
Those terrorist scum ceased to be human a long time ago and therefore don't deserve "human rights".

I love this , I used to think like this before i realised how stupid and barbaric it is . So your basically saying Docb77 , that being a religious fanatic or defending ones countries/ideals stops someone being human ?

Because if so then you have just dropped yourself into a HUGE pile of cacky , considering that a LAAAAARGE number your 'troops' (Aka the American people) are near enough fanatics.

Originally posted by docb77
Our soldiers on the other hand (the ones who get beheaded on video if they get captured), should be treated according to the geneva conventions.

Oh just like those poor bastards who were caught in Guantanamo Bay

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Fine, I'll say it, I don't give a shit. I'm a firm believer in revenge getting your just desserts.

Torturing possibly innocent people is not revenge, dude.

Originally posted by PVS
well, the other question begged is "does it matter" since so many people feel content being "tough" on terror SUSPECTS. so really it seems to me (given the opinions i come across) that its a form of punishment as much as extracting unreliable information.

and furthermore with the passing of this bill, if i was in the military i would demand to have a cyanide capsule on my person at all times for fear of retribution of what our government is planning to do.

people love to be deliberate and dress it all down, as if it will not be brutal enough to think of Auschwitz, but...they are frikin idiots who are the fuel for dictators and should die....consciously lying and decieving to protect the idea that their leader is perfect in every way, and that no matter what horrible evil we commit, its all justified. the proof is in the quotes here, and opinions reflected in the media.

Well, all nations around the world need to be tough on terror. Terrorist do not play by the rules books, they specifically target civilians. Having a lenient hand on terrorist will only provoke further attacks.

Thats not a bad idea, but does it really matter if the bill passed or not? If you were a soldier captured by Al Qaida of any other terrorist group, do you really think they would go easy on you if this bill didn't pass?

See, comparing the technique's we use as being like Auschwitz is dressing it WAY up. Come on man, do you really think a keeping a guy up a few days is equal to slave labor followed by a trip to the gas chamber? As I said below, the only problem I see here is the no checks and balances and someone somewhere crossing the line into real torture.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Torturing possibly innocent people is not revenge, dude.

Nope , just a stress reliever. Screw a cup of coffee I'll go for the branding irons.

Who gets to define "real torture"?

Can I do it? Pick me. Pick me.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Who gets to define "real torture"?

Can I do it? Pick me. Pick me.

Originally posted by grey fox
Nope , just a stress reliever. Screw a cup of coffee I'll go for the branding irons.

Or you can try both: a cigarette in your mouth, cup of coffee in one hand, and a catttle prod in the other.

^ The ultimate stress reliever.

Originally posted by Robtard
Well, all nations around the world need to be tough on terror. Terrorist do not play by the rules books, they specifically target civilians. Having a lenient hand on terrorist will only provoke further attacks.

Thats not a bad idea, but does it really matter if the bill passed or not? If you were a soldier captured by Al Qaida of any other terrorist group, do you really think they would go easy on you if this bill didn't pass?

See, comparing the technique's we use as being like Auschwitz is dressing it WAY up. Come on man, do you really think a keeping a guy up a few days is equal to slave labor followed by a trip to the gas chamber? As I said below, the only problem I see here is the no checks and balances and someone somewhere crossing the line into real torture.

Honestly it's not todays actions that concern me the most. This opens up doors for atrocities in the future far beyond what we are talking about today.

Originally posted by PVS
deliberate lying and dressing down of the issue. speaking of sleeping at night, how do you do it?

we've BEEN doing that!!!!!!!!!

What am I deliberately lying about?

Abu Ghraib prison right? Yes it was wrong and the people responsible are being dealt with.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Who gets to define "real torture"?

Can I do it? Pick me. Pick me.

Well, hopefully who could discern the difference between a severe near death beating and sleep deprivation.

So are you using a linear or a logarithmic scale?

Originally posted by Soleran
Honestly it's not todays actions that concern me the most. This opens up doors for atrocities in the future far beyond what we are talking about today.

I agree, reason I said 'checks and balances' going out the door.