Ion vs Phoenix

Originally posted by Juntai
This isn't the first time. He tried this 'interpretation' stuff on me with Spectre too, saying my interpretation was wrong, when all I was doing was quoting the comic. lol.

The specific instance involved what was know as The Wrath, which the host[human soul] of the Spectre gets bonded with, it is vengence, it is justice, it is Gods Wrath..... In the instance... issue 4 of volume 4... it started changing, to what Hal asked "Is this your TRUE FACE?!" "As best you can percieve it." And went on to speak of how "The Wrath" is just man's projections and then goes on to identify itself as The Logoz.

He went on to argue that Spectre is NOT The Logoz, [even though the comic directly says as much.] but rather an agent of it.

Here's the scan, courtest of Skeets and the respect thread. [I helped in my own little ways, but he did the bulk of the scanning and posting.]

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6099/thespectrev40414de7.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/2056/thespectrev40415xn7.jpg

And he was saying my INTERPRETATION was wrong, just like here.

What interpretation? I just quote comics.

I'm not surprised at all.

He's done it to me time and time again, there are many debaters now that see through that garbage.

This piece of the Scans is in plain english.

"Your belief has pierced the veil of the Wrath (Spectre) and REVEALED the LOGOZ that Lies Beneath"

Is there really any other way to see this?

I think not.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm not surprised at all.

He's done it to me time and time again, there are many debaters now that see through that garbage.

This piece of the Scans is in plain english.

"Your belief has pierced the veil of the Wrath (Spectre) and REVEALED the LOGOZ that Lies Beneath"

Is there really any other way to see this?

I think not.

The panels depictions of him summoning up energy and forming them on panel into planets, a solar system, and eventually nearly a completed universe by the time Spectre arrives. With the intent to start on making other universes.

And there's nothing to support him just manipulating the creation event while on the other hand everything therein seems to support the depictions in him creating, rather than just manipulating anything.

Which is what I've been saying, this entire time.

Originally posted by Juntai
And here we are again in Zero Hour, with Parallax, technically the same character - Hal Jordan, as he was Spectre in those scans as well. lol.

The panels depictions of him summoning up energy and forming them on panel into planets, a solar system, and eventually nearly a completed universe by the time Spectre arrives. With the intent to start on making other universes.

And there's nothing to support him just manipulating the creation event while on the other hand everything therein seems to support the depictions in him creating, rather than just manipulating anything.

Which is what I've been saying, this entire time.

😮‍💨

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Yes. The circuit breakers were one of the reasons behind Dark Phoenix. Mastermind awakened a hunger for power within her, however she had the breakers in place cutting off her might so there was an inner struggle between her good side and bad side which made her go insane. With her power cut off the Dark Phoenix persona ate the star as a stop gap measure. It was gradually winning the battle and wouldve eventually won hence the reason why the good Jean persona committed suicide lest the dark side gain access to the full power and destroy everything.

There's actually evidence that supports this. In (I believe it was in) What If...Phoenix Had Lived, the reality that branced off of Jean Grey not committing suicide was ultimately destroyed by Dark Phoenix herself.

Sigh GS is still at it?

Phoenix was killed by wolverine in exiles after the last of her circet breakers were gone. He killed her with his claws.

She's been killed by a laser turret and a blast from a starship.

Ion has the powers of Parallax plus the starheart. He ethier just shoots her dead or creates an entropy rift which nothing short of the spectre can withstand.

For all the Phoenix Fanboys out there also know to the world at large as "Special Needs Children" Think of it this way. God sent his son to earth, Jesus, he got killed by a peice of wood and some nails.

Powerfull beings can be killed.

What is so hard for you Bird loving numbnuts to get about that?

this is such a big hypocritical love fest.

Originally posted by RSSR
There's actually evidence that supports this. In (I believe it was in) What If...Phoenix Had Lived, the reality that branced off of Jean Grey not committing suicide was ultimately destroyed by Dark Phoenix herself.

What if's are a joke.

And anyway Jean was destroyed along with the universe in that What If:

The Phoenix Force can not be used in a versus thread.

In it's Natural State the Phoenix is UNAWARE of it's Own Existence

The Phoenix Force has NO CONSCIOUSNESS in it's Natural State

It can only act through Avatars, Jean Grey was greatest of the Avatars (White Phoenix of the Crown)

The Phoenix Force is the SPARK that ignites the Big Bang (creation & destruction of a Universe), NOT the White Phoenix (Jean Grey)

Big Bangs are a self perpetuating process, that PF simply ignites, No more.

My lighter lets off a SPARK (PF) that mixes with Gas (Self Perpetuating Process), to ignite a Flame (Big Bang)

The SPARK is Not the Flame, the SPARK does NOT create the Flame.

The Gas (Self Perpetuating Process) creates the Flame (Big Bang)

Originally posted by Ext@nt
Sigh GS is still at it?

Phoenix was killed by a laser turret and a blast from a starship.

Killed by a Shiar Laser....Notice she has her FULL Power back,

This is another angle

Even if she let herself get shot, a powerful Entity should not be killed by Shiar tech.

And if the next excuse is, well the Mortal body died but not the actual Force.

Who cares, when the only being allowed to represent the Force in a battle is an Avatar.

because like I posted before, the Phoenix Force

In it's Natural State is UNAWARE of it's Own Existence

The Phoenix Force has NO CONSCIOUSNESS in it's Natural State

Hence, KILL the Avatar, Phoenix loses.

gimme a break. she didn't just let herself get shot, she LET HERSELF DIE.

rings a xorn bell.

Originally posted by manorastroman
gimme a break. she didn't just let herself get shot, she LET HERSELF DIE.

rings a xorn bell.

🙄 Why dont you clear the fog from your glasses and read again what Mr M politely explained was a so called powerfull being as GS claims such as the phoenix shouldn't be put down like a dog by shiar tech. Even if she let herself "get killed", if LT let himself get blasted by that do you think it would put him down or perhaps even Galactus in fact whats to say it would put the surfer down.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Phoenix Force is the SPARK that ignites the Big Bang (creation & destruction of a Universe), NOT the White Phoenix (Jean Grey)

Big Bangs are a self perpetuating process, that PF simply ignites, No more.

My lighter lets off a SPARK (PF) that mixes with Gas (Self Perpetuating Process), to ignite a Flame (Big Bang)

The SPARK is Not the Flame, the SPARK does NOT create the Flame.

The Gas (Self Perpetuating Process) creates the Flame (Big Bang)

Originally posted by Supreme being
🙄 Why dont you clear the fog from your glasses and read again what Mr M politely explained was a so called powerfull being as GS claims such as the phoenix shouldn't be put down like a dog by shiar tech. Even if she let herself "get killed", if LT let himself get blasted by that do you think it would put him down or perhaps even Galactus in fact whats to say it would put the surfer down.

After all it depends on how much Jean wants to do her "Phoenix-Thing" or simply wants to be Jean. So she can be absolutely invincible and also vulnerable like a common mortal...it all depends on her mental condition and whether she has finished her "job" yet or not.
Since the "versus threads" are usually about the opponents being at full potential (if not stated otherwise), well...

Ion wins because:
1 He is omnipresent and as shown in Green Lantern v3 146 he can create as much of him self as he wants and theye are equal to Ion and he can see everything through their eyes I would like to see how Phoenix handle for example 50 Ions at once
2.Ion can read anyones mind so he would know what Phoenix wants to do so he could act before she does anything
3.Phoenix has been taken down much weaker forces then Ion like the 6 Guardians, Magneto , a Shiar lasergun non of those would even scratch Ion
4.The only guy who was able to handle Parallax was the Spectre(while other guys were feeding on Parallax's energy) who is Equal to the Living Tribunal but Parallax didn't go down with out a fight
Ion has the power of Parallax,The Oa Central batter,and Oblivion

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Ion wins because:
1 He is omnipresent and as shown in Green Lantern v3 146 he can create as much of him self as he wants and theye are equal to Ion and he can see everything through their eyes I would like to see how Phoenix handle for example 50 Ions at once

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
2.Ion can read anyones mind so he would know what Phoenix wants to do so he could act before she does anything

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
3.Phoenix has been taken down much weaker forces then Ion like the 6 Guardians, Magneto , a Shiar lasergun non of those would even scratch Ion

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying PF will win (nor am i saying Ion will win), because i simply don't know enough about Ion to judge, but i certainly know enough about Phoenix to know, that she is not as easily handled as you seem to imply.

Originally posted by wannabe
So he can actually [B]create energy or are all those Ions feeding off the same source?
White Crown Phoenix is not exactly a "lightweight" when it comes to telepathy...you know that?!
I already commented that in my previous post.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying PF will win (nor am i saying Ion will win), because i simply don't know enough about Ion to judge, but i certainly know enough about Phoenix to know, that she is not as easily handled as you seem to imply. [/B]

I see more proof brought and I see more proof in the comics I have (all of GL and most of Phoenix appearences) that Ion is more powerful than Phoenix.

Originally posted by wannabe
Judging the might of Phoenix by it's vulnerability is rather pointless and brings you nowhere!
On the one hand she can let herself get killed by a blaster, on the other hand she can fly righ into the heart of a star unharmed and consume it...so what now?!
To compare it with LT or Galactus in this particular aspect is also pointless, since those two are immortal by nature, they don't have a choice, whereas Jean is the synthesis of an eternal force and a mortal body - she can choose.
Even more it is an essential part of a Phoenix-Avatar to be mortal, otherwise there would be no circle of death an rebirth.

After all it depends on how much Jean wants to do her "Phoenix-Thing" or simply wants to be Jean. So she can be absolutely invincible and also vulnerable like a common mortal...it all depends on her mental condition and whether she has finished her "job" yet or not.
Since the "versus threads" are usually about the opponents being at full potential (if not stated otherwise), well...

You answered exactly what needed to be established here. "whereas Jean is the synthesis of an eternal force and a mortal body", you see I would say Ion doesn't posses that same mortality weakness his powers and his body are one. Besides wolverine killed dark phoenix and i am pretty certain she wasn't keen on any scarifies.

Originally posted by wannabe
So he can actually [B]create energy or are all those Ions feeding off the same source?
White Crown Phoenix is not exactly a "lightweight" when it comes to telepathy...you know that?!
I already commented that in my previous post.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying PF will win (nor am i saying Ion will win), because i simply don't know enough about Ion to judge, but i certainly know enough about Phoenix to know, that she is not as easily handled as you seem to imply. [/B]

Phoenix is a powerfull being in a weak form. As I used the god/jesus example to prove. Ion's power also enchances his body physically.

Also the point everyone seems afriad of and unwilling to deal with,

Ion posesses the same powers as Parallax in addition to having the starheart, which means he can make entropy rifts which would erase her. (he doesnt even have to be around her to do it.)

That's one way hen can kill her outright that you can't argue against.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Killed by a Shiar Laser....Notice she has her FULL Power back,

Not trying to cross hair but that pic is slightly misleading, seeing that is not what actually happened in the story. IIRC, the reason she was able to kill herself was from the fact that her powers had not returned to their full level. AAMOF, the X-Men try to stop her before she reaches her full power level.

Originally posted by HandOfFate
Not trying to cross hair but that pic is slightly misleading, seeing that is not what actually happened in the story. IIRC, the reason she was able to kill herself was from the fact that her powers had not returned to their full level. AAMOF, the X-Men try to stop her before she reaches her full power level.

It seems like Ion is winning this little debate, lol and it seems like a war is currently ongoing here as well.