Originally posted by Juntai
Elaine replaced Yahweh/God in Vertigo. She is God now.Micheal and Lucifer are the Will and the Power of Yahweh.
I thought Vertigo's God wasn't the same as DC's?
Urizen made an arguement towards the imperfection of that Vertigo God, and someone said it wasn't the same as the Presence.
Claarify that for me Jun.
Originally posted by Mr MasterVertigo comics is not DC Canon. Many considered such at one time, like Sandman....but the stories have moved so far and away, they've decided they are not.
I thought Vertigo's God wasn't the same as DC's?Urizen made an arguement towards the imperfection of that Vertigo God, and someone said it wasn't the same as the Presence.
Claarify that for me Jun.
Elaine replaced Vertigo's God in the final issues of Lucifer, a Vertigo title.
She melded Lucifer's creation, and Yahweh's creation and her creation, into one consistant universe. She rewrote the laws of reality, and unmade a need for Hell.
That last line alone is part of why it can't be taken as DC Canon material for the DCU. Hell exists in the DCU, Etrigan is a Demon Lord of Hell, for example.
Characters like Morpheus/Sandman, and Wesley Dodds/Sandman[not confused with Morpheus, the Lord of dreams], and Swamp Thing, and John Constantine, and Lucifer, and Deadman, all have/had Vertigo titles, but I don't think any of their appearances count as continuity for DC... only when it's a DC comic.
Another example being that Deadman in Vertigo, and Deadman in DC, are two different guys.. Vertigo's isn't Boston Brand.
Elaine is indeed powerful, but even though she replaces Yahweh as ruler of Creation (the universe as it is stated, not a multiverse, btw) she is not on par with him in terms of raw ability.
Yahweh abandoned his creation long ago, and Elaine being a rather liberal mindset, unmade Hell (as Christopher Rudd had proposed)
The fact that Yahweh did create Hell, already proves him imperfection....I have argued this a million times, so please Juntai do not argue with me on this particular point...
Thanos with HOTU is too powerful...Lucifer may be the biggest factor in this, simply because he is so damn intelligent.
Lucifer may find a way to defeat Thanos, and use the almighty power that Micheal and Elaine currently wield as his means...that is if Thanos doesn't erase him from existance beforehand. Or turn him into toilet paper...which ever comes first.
Originally posted by Juntai
Elaine is not a DC character, has never appeared in a DC comic. She is not DC comics God.
Micheal and Lucifer however, have... yet, it was Lucifer's title where Hell was collapsed and Elaine replaced Yahweh... a Vertigo title.
Oh oh, this is beginning to look like a continuity mess.
Am I right? or are they handling things over there?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Understood.Are they the exact same characters in both companies?
Is Elaine Yahweh's daughter or the Presence's?
Who created Lucifer, Mike and Elaine? Presence or Yahweh?
Is there any relationship between Yahweh and the Presence?
Urizen makes claim that Yahweh is faulty, because Yahweh said he is formed by other sources when Lucifer said he did a good job of being the only being in existance that doesn't have a beginning with another creature. I take it that creation itself shapes Yahweh. His creations decide what he is and what God will be. Anyways, everything in Vertigo is said to move according to "The Plan", which is Yahweh's plan for all things. The only thing to ever escape it's purpose in "The Plan" is Lucifer, and that was simply because he's imbued with the Will of Yahweh himself, it gave him the ability to truly understand, and leave his purpose and The Plan behind. . .. yet, he's still a creation of Yahweh. Yahweh has never been portrayed as incapable, or imperfect.
In DC, The Presence is The Presence.
It created everything. It is everything.
Elaine is not a DC character.
Micheal nor Lucifer [who appear and speak the same in both universes] have never mentioned her. She has never appeared to my knowledge in any DC comic.
At the end of the Lucifer run, Yahweh decides to give Elaine lordship of creation. She begins by melding multiple creations together, and getting rid of hell, and rewriting many of the laws of creation.
This, like ELaine's character entirely, has never happened in a DC comic.
Originally posted by Lord UrizenThe place in itself, was merely the farthest point from Premium Mobile, inside of the Creation he made.
Elaine is indeed powerful, but even though she replaces Yahweh as ruler of Creation (the universe as it is stated, not a multiverse, btw) she is not on par with him in terms of raw ability.Yahweh abandoned his creation long ago, and Elaine being a rather liberal mindset, unmade Hell (as Christopher Rudd had proposed)
The fact that Yahweh did create Hell, already proves him imperfection....I have argued this a million times, so please Juntai do not argue with me on this particular point...
Originally posted by Juntai
The place in itself, was merely the farthest point from Premium Mobile, inside of the Creation he made.
And, it was all part of The Plan.
If it was all part of "The Plan" then none of the characters had free will...
Also that's bullshit, because in the last issue of Lucifer, Yahweh wanted Lucifer to accept his gift...to trade experiences, and Lucifer declined..
Yeah, let me guess...that was part of his plan 2, right ? 🙄