Originally posted by Scoobless
Spider-Man can, Cap can't.Why is the "comic book physics" defence always pulled out when someone can't defend their point using reason?
Originally posted by inamilist
AgreedSometimes comic book physics is acceptable, I don;t think it is here. Bullet dodging is such a ridiculous feat.
As far as I am concerned, dodging bullets and lasers should be invalid feats for anyone. If they are that fast, they should have to show it in other places. Bullet dodging is just something that heroes have to do, or they would die. To be honest, it is more of a low showing for soldiers in the MU that they can't hit a moving target going just above human speed
It makes no sense for cap to dodge bullets. I would argue that, in many ways, it makes no sense for Spider-Man to dodge bullets. However, not having a spider-man to test this theory on, we will never know.
Bullets job like what in the Marvel Universe
No he can, he has blocked bullets after they have been fired, he also said that he can see bullets. He can dodge bullets.
Originally posted by Alfheim
No he can, he has blocked bullets after they have been fired, he also said that he can see bullets. He can dodge bullets.
Think about it for a second. If Spiderman can see bullets, then to him, someone punching him would be ULTRA SLOW MO and he would never get hit.
That is crap.
Originally posted by masterbruce
Think about it for a second. If Spiderman can see bullets, then to him, someone punching him would be ULTRA SLOW MO and he would never get hit.That is crap.
Euh depends on the character now wouldn't it.
Iff he fights a guy with enhanced speed or superhuman speed, the guy might hit faster than a bullet.
Originally posted by masterbruce
Think about it for a second. If Spiderman can see bullets, then to him, someone punching him would be ULTRA SLOW MO and he would never get hit.That is crap.
A fist won't go through his brain and have a huge entry wound out the back of his head. Blunt force trauma won't do as much damage to him, and he knows that.
Originally posted by inamilistIt's worse when people use feats that say the person can run 20 yards in half a second.
AgreedSometimes comic book physics is acceptable, I don;t think it is here. Bullet dodging is such a ridiculous feat.
As far as I am concerned, dodging bullets and lasers should be invalid feats for anyone. If they are that fast, they should have to show it in other places. Bullet dodging is just something that heroes have to do, or they would die. To be honest, it is more of a low showing for soldiers in the MU that they can't hit a moving target going just above human speed
It makes no sense for cap to dodge bullets. I would argue that, in many ways, it makes no sense for Spider-Man to dodge bullets. However, not having a spider-man to test this theory on, we will never know.
Bullets job like what in the Marvel Universe
Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Guh! Cap is not a street leveler! He's an enhanced human! He's not Batman with a f#@$ing shield!Jebus.
You're right.... He's not as intelligent as Batman and didn't have to work as hard to gain his abilities, it was handed to him in a Serum. Albeit a serum with intrinsic risks of killing him at the time. However he was a weak, sickly and feeble individual so he had little to lose. That said, Steve Rogers is very brave.
Originally posted by Brutacus
Lol don't worry it's not like I'm from marvel or something, heck I might be wrong, just don't see it like he's on the same level as batman.
Well I think he could be as smart as Batman in terms battle tactics but not building stuff. Im just really stubborn when it comes to Cap so im trying to be more open minded and not disagree straight away.
Originally posted by long pig
Batgirl has dodged bullets. No, not the aim or the person firing, she dodged the bullets effortlessly.The red dot was on her forehead, she heard the fire and it showed the bullet going towards her almost 3 inches or so from her face and she just sidesteps it. Then, 10 more bullets are fired and she casually goes around them while they were inches from her body.
Deathstroke has done the same thing.
IMO D.C streetlevelers are way above Marvel's.
I believe the same thing about DC's streetlevelers but only because everyone tells me every streetleveler is one of DC's greatest martial artists.
Originally posted by Scoobless
He can't even dodge cars sometimes:
http://img355.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverinesquashedbycarsyy5.jpg
I don't think anyone is saying cap isn't superhuman
and nobody is saying that Cap hasn't dodged bullets in the comics or that it isn't necessary sometimes to forsake "continuity" for a economically viable "story".
However, VS threads aren't about that type of thing. There are two major reasons why bullet dodging is just in general a bad feat. My opinion of course.
1) The speed necessary to dodge bullets is much higher than "superspeed" or what have you. In some cases, it would require the ability for one to propel their body at speeds greater than the speed of sound. This is especially true of feats where a hero would "dance" between the bullets. Most of the street levelers who dodge bullets have no other showings moving nearly that fast. Yes, they are faster than normal humans, but I think you are underestimating just how fast a bullet travels.
2) The shooter, in most cases, is a trained military guy. I can understand street punks not being able to tag Cap at close ranges, but a trained military professional with a semi-automatic weapon? To even think that your regular, run of the mill soldier couldn't take out Cap or DD or Moon Knight or whatever, is not a feat for the hero, it is a disrespect to the soldier.
The common responses to these are not very satisfactory either. The classic forum response is that the hero is just able to stay one step ahead of the shooter's aim. This is ridiculous. Especially when dealing with computer guided systems or lasers. Cap is not fast enough to avoid the fire of someone who knows how to handle a firearm. Its not that cap isn't superhumanly fast, its just that he isn't THAT fast.
The other response, where it says on panel or something that Cap can see bullets like they are in slow mo or whatever. I am not going to argue with what they say on panel, but imagine how much Cap's character would change if he could perceive the world as though things moving the speed of sound were moving in slow motion. He could possibly give Quicksilver a run in a footrace at that speed. Sure, it explains the single answer of "how can Cap dodge bullets", but leaves way to many unanswered variables about how his "slow mo vision + correspondingly fast reflexes" power works.
Re: What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?
Originally posted by ScooblessThere is a great misconception amongst many KMC members over who exactly can and cannot "dodge bullets"
Characters such as DareDevil, Wolverine, Batman, Captain America, etc, etc... all have managed to fool people into believing that they can "dodge" bullets... this is simply not possible, while yes, they do avoid being hit on a consistent basis, they are not actually dodging bullets, they are merely avoiding the aim of the person firing at them.
High velocity rifle fire can travel at over 3,000 mph (over mach 4) which is obviously way too fast for any non-speedster to avoid if it's on target when fired.
I've even heard people state that "Wolverine (or whoever) dodges lasers all the time" which is even more ludicrous... once again they are only avoiding the aim of the person/machine behind the weapon.
Spider-Man is another character people claim can "dodge" bullets and that he does it more often than any other character "proving" that he can... once again this is not the case... his spider-sense lets him know when he is about to be fired at and his superhuman speed allows him to easily move from that location before the shooter can even pull the trigger
I know this thread is fairly pointless... but I don't care... the growing number of fanboys on the comic forums who constantly state that "(insert name here) can dodge bullets/lasers" is mind-boggling
The characters who actually can "dodge" a bullet after it has been fired include Superman, the Flash, Quicksilver(classic), Speed Demon, etc... basically people who can move and react at the speeds necessary to avoid a projectile travelling anywhere between mach 0.5 to mach 4.5
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/MariaPereyra.shtml
http://www.reloadbench.com/gloss/conv.html
What abouut when a character...like...lets say Storm Shadow is able to block bullets with his sword?😖hifty:
Or walk in-between gun fire?
😛
Originally posted by inamilist
I don't think anyone is saying cap isn't superhumanand nobody is saying that Cap hasn't dodged bullets in the comics or that it isn't necessary sometimes to forsake "continuity" for a economically viable "story".
However, VS threads aren't about that type of thing. There are two major reasons why bullet dodging is just in general a bad feat. My opinion of course.
1) The speed necessary to dodge bullets is much higher than "superspeed" or what have you. In some cases, it would require the ability for one to propel their body at speeds greater than the speed of sound. This is especially true of feats where a hero would "dance" between the bullets. Most of the street levelers who dodge bullets have no other showings moving nearly that fast. Yes, they are faster than normal humans, but I think you are underestimating just how fast a bullet travels.
No I just think its pointless nitpicking about these things I'll explain later.
Originally posted by inamilist
2) The shooter, in most cases, is a trained military guy. I can understand street punks not being able to tag Cap at close ranges, but a trained military professional with a semi-automatic weapon? To even think that your regular, run of the mill soldier couldn't take out Cap or DD or Moon Knight or whatever, is not a feat for the hero, it is a disrespect to the soldier.
Thats completely subjective. Even if you wanted to agree that they cant dodge bullets if they are superhuman why cant they move so fast that even trained guys cant hit them?
Originally posted by inamilist
The common responses to these are not very satisfactory either. The classic forum response is that the hero is just able to stay one step ahead of the shooter's aim. This is ridiculous. Especially when dealing with computer guided systems or lasers. Cap is not fast enough to avoid the fire of someone who knows how to handle a firearm. Its not that cap isn't superhumanly fast, its just that he isn't THAT fast.
Thats completely subjective. Even if you wanted to agree that they cant dodge bullets if they are superhuman why cant they move so fast that even trained guys cant hit them?
Originally posted by inamilist
The other response, where it says on panel or something that Cap can see bullets like they are in slow mo or whatever. I am not going to argue with what they say on panel, but imagine how much Cap's character would change if he could perceive the world as though things moving the speed of sound were moving in slow motion. He could possibly give Quicksilver a run in a footrace at that speed. Sure, it explains the single answer of "how can Cap dodge bullets", but leaves way to many unanswered variables about how his "slow mo vision + correspondingly fast reflexes" power works.
Im aware of all of that but there are so many things that people accept on this forum that dont make sense, to nitpick on points like that is iilogical. If you want to do that you need to do a massive overhaul on all the characters. Lets have a look at some stuff:
1. Dr Doom does not have superhuman intelligence but can still build time machines. Using current 2007 tech and not having superhuman intelligence how does he do it? Even if you were not going to have any problem with that, dont you think that if somebody was that intelligent that the intelligence on its own would give him superhuman powers? Dr Doom has other psionic and magical powers but they are not due to his intelligence.
2. The Hulk should not have to touch anybody to hurt them if he can lift 100, 000's tons he should be able to kill people by flexing his muscles. The flexing of the muscles would be so strong that they would send vibrations through the air. How the hell do guys like that walk around without breaking stuff and killing people by accident? So they can lift 100,000s tons but they touch people without killing them. Why doesnt the ground shake everytime these people walk?
3. Why does Wonder Woman have class 100 strength but is still able to get hurt by bullets and arrows? Her being a magical character does not explain it, the purpose of the magic was to make her a warrior. Why the hell would somebody cast a spell to give somebody class 100 strength but make their durability significantly weaker.
4. As far as I know characters like the Silver Surfer can travel faster than lightspeed but cannot time travel. That doesnt make any sense either.
Originally posted by By Crom!
You're right.... He's not as intelligent as Batman and didn't have to work as hard to gain his abilities, it was handed to him in a Serum. Albeit a serum with intrinsic risks of killing him at the time. However he was a weak, sickly and feeble individual so he had little to lose. That said, Steve Rogers is very brave.
😕
If you're trying to make me hold Batman in higher regard, it's not happening. I'm not going to make the character out to be uber. I like the stories, but his abilities are mundane to me.
Either way, it still stands that Cap is a superhuman. Batman is not.
