Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Signers of the U.S. ConstitutionDone in convention by the unanimous consent of the states present the seventeenth day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven and of the independence of the United States of America the twelfth.
In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,
G. Washington-Presidt. and deputy from Virginia
New Hampshire: John Langdon, Nicholas Gilman
Massachusetts: Nathaniel Gorham, Rufus King
Connecticut: Wm: Saml. Johnson, Roger Sherman
New York: Alexander Hamilton
New Jersey: Wil: Livingston, David Brearly, Wm. Paterson, Jona: Dayton
Pennsylvania: B. Franklin, Thomas Mifflin, Robt. Morris, Geo. Clymer, Thos. FitzSimons, Jared Ingersoll, James Wilson, Gouv Morris
Delaware: Geo: Read, Gunning Bedford jun, John Dickinson, Richard Bassett, Jaco: Broom
Maryland: James McHenry, Dan of St Thos. Jenifer, Danl Carroll
Virginia: John Blair--, James Madison Jr.
North Carolina: Wm. Blount, Richd. Dobbs Spaight, Hu Williamson
South Carolina: J. Rutledge, Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, Charles Pinckney, Pierce Butler
Georgia: William Few, Abr Baldwin
The U.S. Constitution does not mention Buddha, Allah, or any other god. But the Constitution signers acknowledge the Lord. There was no need to say, "...in the year of our Lord ...." for the Constitution to be binding. [/B]
This has probabally been said but, the first amenedment.
prohibits the federal legislature from making laws that establish a state religion or prefer a certain religion (the "Establishment Clause"😉,
So, I guess America isn't.
Originally posted by spencerspider
and where the heck did this slavery thing come in anyway. like i said they were not perfect. they believed in jesus as we should. i know u can call me whatever but with him we are a better all-around country.
jawdrop You have got to be ****ing kidding me.
You think Africans brought to this country already believed in Jesus?
Then we both interpret it differently, when I hear "come to believe" it indicates that they have chosen to accept that this story is true, force-feeding a religion is not compatible with the term "came to believe" which to me indicates choice and personal advancement.
(Please note I havn't insulted you yet.)
JesusIsAlive, you have yet to address what the Founding Fathers have to say:
Adams, James and George Washington. “Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11.” 1796-7.The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.
Franklin, Benjamin. Benjamin Franklin, A Biography in his Own Words. 1758.As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion . . . has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity.
Madison, James. Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments. 1785.During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.
Paine, Thomas Robert. The Age of Reason. 1795.Whenever we read the obscene stories [of The Bible], the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half The Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the Word of God.
Washington, George. The Writings of George Washington. 12 vols. 1834.The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy.
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
I think African's who came to belive realised that they were greater in God's eyes than the white slave takers.
Which is why Christianity si so enduring and spread so widely initially. All the focus was put on the afterlife, so its ok if you're whipped to the bone by yor Lord, you'll have a better life in the end.
By deluding people into arbitraily thinking about a life after death and not the like they actually were living, Christianity succeded.
Originally posted by Alliance
Which is why Christianity si so enduring and spread so widely initially. All the focus was put on the afterlife, so its ok if you're whipped to the bone by yor Lord, you'll have a better life in the end.By deluding people into arbitraily thinking about a life after death and not the like they actually were living, Christianity succeded.
Escapism is a powerful tool. Now, I'm going to escape to my bed.
Re: JesusIsAlive, you have yet to address what the Founding Fathers have to say:
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
JesusIsAlive, you have yet to address what the Founding Fathers have to say:quote:
Adams, James and George Washington. “Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11.” 1796-7.The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.
quote:
Franklin, Benjamin. Benjamin Franklin, A Biography in his Own Words. 1758.As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion . . . has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity.
quote:
Madison, James. Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments. 1785.During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.
quote:
Paine, Thomas Robert. The Age of Reason. 1795.Whenever we read the obscene stories [of The Bible], the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half The Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the Word of God.
quote:
Washington, George. The Writings of George Washington. 12 vols. 1834.The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy.
WAS THE UNITED STATES FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION?
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Recently, many authors have debated whether or not the United States of America was founded as a Christian nation. I wish to provide a few historical quotes from our Founding Era that lend credence to the supposition that we indeed were founded as a Christian nation.
Granted, God is not mentioned in the Constitution, but He is mentioned in every major document leading up to the final wording of the Constitution. For example, Connecticut is still known as the "Constitution State" because its colonial constitution was used as a model for the United States Constitution. Its first words were: "For as much as it has pleased the almighty God by the wise disposition of His Divine Providence…"
Most of the fifty-five Founding Fathers who worked on the Constitution were members of orthodox Christian churches and many were even evangelical Christians. The first official act in the First Continental Congress was to open in Christian prayer, which ended in these words: "...the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son, our Savior. Amen". Sounds Christian to me.
Ben Franklin, at the Constitutional Convention, said: "...God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"
John Adams stated so eloquently during this period of time that; "The general principles on which the fathers achieved Independence were ... the general principles of Christianity ... I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that the general principles of Christianity are as etemal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."
Later, John Quincy Adams answered the question as to why, next to Christmas, was the Fourth of July this most joyous and venerated day in the United States. He answered: "...Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer’s mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity?"
Sounds like the founding of a Christian nation to me. John Quincy Adams went on to say that the biggest victory won in the American Revolution was that Christian principles and civil government would be tied together In what he called an "indissoluble" bond. The Founding Fathers understood that religion was inextricably part of our nation and government. The practice of the Christian religion in our government was not only welcomed but encouraged.
The intent of the First Amendment was well understood during the founding of our country. The First Amendment was not to keep religion out of government. It was to keep Government from establishing a 'National Denomination" (like the Church of England).
As early as 1799 a court declared: "By our form of government the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed on the same equal footing."
Even in the letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Baptists of Danbury Connecticut (from which we derive the term "separation of Church and State"😉 he made it quite clear that the wall of separation was to insure that Government would never interfere with religious activities because religious freedom came from God, not from Government.
Even George Washington who certainly knew the intent of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, since he presided over their formation, said in his "Farewell Address": "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars."
Sure doesn't sound like Washington was trying to separate religion and politics.
John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court, and one of the three men most responsible for the writing of the Constitution declared:
"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is their duty-as well as privilege and interest- of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."
Still sounds like the Founding Fathers knew this was a Christian nation.
This view, that we were a Christian nation, was held for almost 150 years until the Everson v. Board of Education ruling in 1947. Before that momentous ruling, even the Supreme Court knew that we were a Christian nation.
In 1892 the Court stated:
"No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people...This is a Christian nation."
There it is again! From the Supreme Court of the United States. This court went on to cite 87 precedents (prior actions, words, and rulings) to conclude that this was a "Christian nation".
In 1854, the House Judiciary Committee said: "in this age, there is no substitute for Christianity...That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.'
It should be noted here that even as late as 1958 a dissenting judge warned in Baer v. Kolmorgen that if the court did not stop talking about the "separation of Church and State", people were going to start thinking it was part of the Constitution.
It has been demonstrated in their own words: Ben Franklin, George Washington and John Adams, to the House of Representatives and the Supreme Court, how our founding fathers felt about the mix of politics and religion.
When we read articles such as "What's God got to do with it?" (Primack, 5/4) and "The wall between state and church must not be breached" (Tager, 5/7) it just reaffirms how little, even intelligent people, understand about the founding of our great Republic. To say that this nation was not founded as a Christian nation or that the Constitution was not founded on Christian principles is totally at odds with the facts of history.
Tex Browning
Re: Re: JesusIsAlive, you have yet to address what the Founding Fathers have to say:
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveThe rest of your post is yawn, but this stuck out.
Granted, God is not mentioned in the Constitution, but He is mentioned in every major document leading up to the final wording of the Constitution. For example, Connecticut is still known as the "Constitution State" because its colonial constitution was used as a model for the United States Constitution. Its first words were: [B]"For as much as it has pleased the almighty God by the wise disposition of His Divine Providence…" [/B]
So because our Constitution was based on the colonial Constitution of Connecticut, which started with religious language, even though this text never made it to the U.S. Constitution, it somehow means we're a Christian nation? That's some REAL faulty reasoning.
Not to mention the fact that you didn't address the quotes that Capt_Fantastic posted, as he asked. You just posted some irrelevant drek as a pseudo-response, while ignoring the quotes themselves. Good job 😉