Columbine Rejects God In Favor of Darwin's Theory

Originally posted by Nellinator
The real part is our works passing through the fire. It is what Purgatory was based on, however, it evolved into someone entirely different.

You ignored everything I said in that paragraph. I CLEARLY stated "Although we are saved our works still pass through fire". Whay are you saying that I said the person passes through the fire? I didn't. The works are subjected to fire even though we are saved, that is what I have been saying the entire time.

Actually it is talking about both works of the flesh and works of the kingdom that are done in the flesh. 1 Corinthians 3 clearly states that we will suffer loss for some of our works. These are not of the kingdom if they are burned up.

I'm not sure why we are arguing about seeing God being the final reward. I think we both understand what is going on there.

The rich man in Lazarus's story was in Hades, not the lake of fire. Being absent from the body does not equal death as you are implying because, as I will reiterate, verse 9 states that we labour whether absent of present. This means it is while we are in the flesh. Also, we do not go straight to heaven, we first go to the judgement seat of Christ, from where we go either to heaven or Hades. The lake of fire has not been created yet, so unbelievers go to Hades and believers go to heaven.

This is what I intended to write:

Purgatory is a false doctrine based on something that is real. What we are discussing is what is real. It has nothing to do with purging or salvation, therefore it is completely and utterly seperate from the doctrine of Purgatory.

I do not follow you, what is real?

"We are saved through fire". This was a slight slip of the tongue. However, I did mean "through", not "by means of". That sentence would be more correctly be stated as "Although we are saved our works still pass through fire". This is not a determining factor in salvation, as the Lazarus story says, "neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence." The place of this is obviously not heaven because sin does not enter heaven. 2 Corinthians 5:10 states that it is before the judgement seat of Christ. That is, the fire is before heaven.

We are not saved "through" fire nor do we pass "through" any fire. This is still unscriptural. We are saved "through" faith (in Jesus Christ), not through any fire. The "works" (this is what you still do not grasp brother, with all due respect) are what are subjected to the fire or that pass through the fire not the individual (i.e. the believer). You persist in stating that the "person" is the object of the fire's scrutiny, but it is not, it is the person's "work" that he/she has done on behalf of the Kingdom of God. We are not going to have to pass through any fire. We are saved, sanctified, filled with the Holy Spirit, and bound for Heaven based on Christ's sacrifice/payment for our sins. There isn't any thing else that we need to undergo in order to be fit for Heaven. We are "already" the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. We are ready for Heaven. It is finished, nothing more has to be done for us to go to Heaven because Jesus has done it all for us. That is why Jesus sat down. We can boldly enter the Holiest i.e. the throne room of Almighty God in Heaven thanks to Jesus. We do not need to undergo any fiery purification process before going to Heaven. Everything is done.

Hebrews 10:12
But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,

Hebrews 10:19
Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus,

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Ephesians 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Hebrews 9:12
Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 10:10
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Notice how eveything is in the past tense brother. It is because everything is already done. As far as sanctification it has a dual nature. Sanctification is both an accomplished act as far as us being set apart by God as holy, and righteous, but it is also an ongoing process in our lives each day because our flesh is not saved. Our flesh is still subject to the law of sin and death (that is why we still struggle with sin and why our body still dies).

Works are one of the ways sin is born. Fits of rage, drunkeness, gluttony, etc. are all works that are sinful. Other works, such as charity to the helpless, etc. are works that are glorifying to God. Now "the fire shall try every man's work of the sort it is." This work obvious includes both the glorifying works and the sins we have committed. The glorifying works are the ones that are not burned up and for which we receive reward. The works that are burned up are the sinful, or impurely done deeds that we have done and for these we "suffer loss". This is why 2 John 8 says "look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward." Once again, this has nothing to do with salvation, but with rewards and punishment. This fire tests, but when the works "abide which he hath built thereupon" the fire does punish. This is similar to the process of purification of metals, which is why it is called purification. This is not a purification from sin because that was done on the cross by the blood of Jesus.

You are still associating the word "works" with sin. The word "works" is in 1 Corinthians 3:8, 13-16 is not talking about the "works of the flesh" that are listed in Galatians 5:19-21. It is talking about works in the sense of the "things" that we do on behalf of the Kingdom of God as Christ's representatives in the earth, which inherently have a reward associated with them. We will receive a reward for everything that we do on behalf of Jesus (i.e. for His glory and to help other people) if it is done with the right motive, intent, and attitude.

"Actually, being able to see God is my ultimate reward."
Which is what heaven is 😉

Well, Heaven is a "place," but God is a "Person," so in my mind they are not the same.

2 Corinthias 5:6-8 does not comment on whether we go directly to heaven or not, it is completely silent on the subject. Verse 7 indicates that Paul is talking about this life as he is talking about the walk in faith. He is equating faith with being at home with the Lord and absent from the body. This is basically being "in the Spirit" as per the common cliche. Also notice that in verse 9 he says "Wherefore, we labour, that, whether present of absent, we may be accepted of Him." Meaning that it is of this life because it is in this life that we labour.

The inference is there. To be absent from the body = to be present with the Lord. Every person who died in the Bible who was righteous in God's eyes went to Paradise. The moment that their spirit and soul left their body (this is what is meant by being absent from the body) they went somewhere specific based on their standing with God. Lazarus' standing with God was obviously righteous. But the rich man's standing with God was apparently unrighteous. Both parties went somewhere immediately at death. It is the same way for believers today, but the only difference is we go immediately to Heaven. But unbelievers go immediately to Hell at death just like the rich man. Nothing has changed. If we were living at the time before Christ first came to earth then we who are righteous before God would have gone to the Paradise side of Hades just like all the other righteous dead who lived before Jesus' first advent. But we live on the other side as it were of Christ's advent so we go straight to Heaven. Paradise has perhaps been relocated to Heaven.

Originally posted by Nellinator
The real part is our works passing through the fire. It is what Purgatory was based on, however, it evolved into someone entirely different.

You ignored everything I said in that paragraph. I CLEARLY stated "Although we are saved our works still pass through fire". Whay are you saying that I said the person passes through the fire? I didn't. The works are subjected to fire even though we are saved, that is what I have been saying the entire time.

Actually it is talking about both works of the flesh and works of the kingdom that are done in the flesh. 1 Corinthians 3 clearly states that we will suffer loss for some of our works. These are not of the kingdom if they are burned up.

I'm not sure why we are arguing about seeing God being the final reward. I think we both understand what is going on there.

The rich man in Lazarus's story was in Hades, not the lake of fire. Being absent from the body does not equal death as you are implying because, as I will reiterate, verse 9 states that we labour whether absent of present. This means it is while we are in the flesh. Also, we do not go straight to heaven, we first go to the judgement seat of Christ, from where we go either to heaven or Hades. The lake of fire has not been created yet, so unbelievers go to Hades and believers go to heaven.

Ok, brother I acknowledge that you do not believe that the person passes through fire.

Originally posted by Draco69
I personally blame Marilyn Manson and Mortal Kombat. It clearly had to with the Columbine shootings.

✅

Originally posted by Nellinator

The real part is our works passing through the fire. It is what Purgatory was based on, however, it evolved into someone entirely different.

I have read what you have written.

You ignored everything I said in that paragraph. I CLEARLY stated "Although we are saved our works still pass through fire". Why are you saying that I said the person passes through the fire? I didn't. The works are subjected to fire even though we are saved, that is what I have been saying the entire time.

I acknowledge that you do not believe that a person passes through the fire (now). But yes, that is what you have been saying the entire time. You stated,

Originally posted by Nellinator
You are misinterpretating what I am saying.

"But he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire". We are saved through fire. The works are passed through the fire, but according to this, so is the person themselves, even though they are saved. This is not necessarily a tormenting fire, but it is fire nonetheless.

You stated that the person also passes through the fire as well.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Sheol/Hades has nothing to do with our works. It is penance and a purification by fire as per the story of Lazarus. Lazarus was in Hades, not the Lake of Fire. There was a difference. However, time spent in Sheol/Hades does not negate the need for grace and salvation through Jesus alone. I'm not saying that the entire Catholic doctrine on Purgatory are scriptural, but the parts I mentioned are.

The Deuterocanonical are not he Apocrypha. They are apart of the canon that Jesus himself used, that is the Septuagint. They were apart of the canon until Luther removed them erroneously.

No, Sheol/Hades has nothing to do with penance and purification as per the story of Lazarus. Lazarus did not go to Hades for sake of penance and purification, but this is what you state and what you mean when you say, “It is penance and a purification by fire as per the story of Lazarus.” You say that the entire time that you have been talking about works being burned up that you do not believe in Purgatory, but your statements contradict what you say. Furthermore, Lazarus went to the "Paradise" side of Hades apparently because He was righteous in God's eyes. But again, that instance is not a proof text for the Dogma of Purgatory in any way, yet you state that it is by using it in reference to Purgatory, which includes the whole penance and purification thing (vestiges of the Dogma of Purgatory).

Originally posted by Nellinator
I realize that Lazarus wasn't in the fire. He was in the so-called bosom of Abraham, which is, as you have mentioned, the holding place for the righteous. I do hold that the fire of Sheol/Hades is different than the fire of Tartarus/the lake of fire because they are seperate. That is all I am saying.

However, read 1 Corinthians 3:13-17 and see that purification by fire does occur before heaven.

In this post brother you imply that purification by fire "does" occur. This post is preceded by a post where you uphold the purification of individuals by fire (you affirm penance and purification in the post immediately preceding this one). That is why you say in this one that purification "does" occur. You are using 1 Corinthians to support your claim that people must undergo penance and purification by fire before going to Heaven. None of your posts are isolated, they are all one continuous thought.

Actually it is talking about both works of the flesh and works of the kingdom that are done in the flesh. 1 Corinthians 3 clearly states that we will suffer loss for some of our works. These are not of the kingdom if they are burned up.

I do not agree, the context of 1 Corinthians does not bear that out. We are dealing with contexts. Scripture can only be correctly interpreted in light of it context. The context is not talking about the works of the flesh. The works of the flesh is a reference to “sins” that are committed in the flesh.

Notice what is conspicuous in its absence in 1 Corinthians 3:8, 13-16: the word “flesh.” The apostle Paul said that in his “flesh” dwells no good thing. Furthermore, how can you suffer loss for something that is sinful? You can only suffer loss for something that you have done that you could possibly “gain” from. You don’t suffer loss for a work of the flesh or a sin. That would not be a loss, that would be a gain. For example, if I lost the sin of adultery through this fiery examination then I have actually gained its antithesis (marital fidelity). Can you see the asininity of this logic? That is why I continue to harp on context because without it you cannot rightly divide the Word of Truth. It makes no sense at all that 1 Corinthians 3:8, 13-16 is talking about both works of the flesh and works of the kingdom that are done in the flesh,” as you maintain. That interpretation does not fit and is incompatible with the surrounding verses. What we stand to suffer loss from based on 1 Corinthians 3:8, 13-16 is any works that we do that were not deemed worthy of a reward or rewards based on the quality of them. It is not talking about burning up works of the flesh so that we can go to Heaven or burning up any works that need to be purified or removed from us.

I'm not sure why we are arguing about seeing God being the final reward. I think we both understand what is going on there.

I hear you brother but you know me: I am just being technical in my line upon, precept upon precept counter of your points that I believe are inconsistent with Scripture.

The rich man in Lazarus's story was in Hades, not the lake of fire. Being absent from the body does not equal death as you are implying because, as I will reiterate, verse 9 states that we labour whether absent of present. This means it is while we are in the flesh. Also, we do not go straight to heaven, we first go to the judgement seat of Christ, from where we go either to heaven or Hades. The lake of fire has not been created yet, so unbelievers go to Hades and believers go to heaven.

I don’t believe that I ever stated that Lazarus was in the Lake of Fire.

Again, you are not paying careful attention to context here. The word “absent” (in context) goes with 2 Corinthians 5:6 which suggests life in the body (i.e. a person who is still alive, in the flesh, and who is not present with the Lord). But the word “present” goes with 2 Corinthians 5:8 which does allude to death (this is the opposite of being alive, in the flesh) and to that which follows (i.e. being present with the Lord). We do not labor if we are present with the Lord as you state because the Bible indicates that we rest from our labors at that point.

Revelation 14:13
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”

Hebrews 4:9
There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.

So, we can conclude at least two things from this verse of Scripture;

1) that those who die in the Lord do not continue to labor for Him in Heaven, they rest (i.e. not necessarily that they sleep all day, but in the sense that they “cease” to labor for others on behalf of God in the earth).

2) that everything that I have been saying our works (i.e. whatever we do on behalf of Jesus Christ, for His glory, and everything that we do for other people in terms of loving them and helping them etc.) is the work that will follow us into Heaven for reward (if it passes the examination by fire cited in 1 Corinthians 3:8, 13-16).

There is complete harmony here. Another point I want to make that I have learned from all of this discussion brother: everything that we read in the Bible should be able to correspond with, be compatible with, and reconcile with other Scriptures just as Revelation 14:3 and 1 Corinthians 3:8, 13-16. 1 Corinthians 3:8, 13-16 does not correspond with the works of the flesh or sins as you state, and neither does Revelation 14:3. Both references correspond with the interpretation that I have submitted to you, that they are talking about works in terms of the things that we for Jesus or rather on His behalf as His representatives. For example, if I help someone out of love for Jesus and love for that person, and my heart is right (i.e. I am doing for the right reason etc.), then I believe that when that “work” is examined by fire that I will receive a reward for what I have done. My works will follow me to Heaven.

Originally posted by Nellinator

Yes, we do go straight to Heaven when we die. The Judgment Seat of Christ is not a judgment to determine where we will spend eternity (I can tell that the you have a “works-centered” mentality about salvation becomes it keeps coming out in your speech), it corresponds with what I have been saying all along: rewards. Our salvation is decided for us based on our decision to exercise faith in Jesus Christ’s redemptive work on our behalf in--this life, not while we are in Heaven. We must choose this day whom we will serve. As Joshua said,

Joshua 24:15
“…But as for me and my house we will serve the Lord.”

So, we are saved “before” we go to Heaven, not after we get there and are Judged by Jesus Christ (this makes no sense and it contradicts Scripture). The apostle Paul states in his letter to the Romans,

Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 10:13
For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

Romans 14:10
But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Salvation precedes the Judgment Seat of Christ. We are already saved before or prior to standing before the Lord Jesus Christ (at His judgment seat) to receive the things done in the body whether good or bad (again this is talking about whether we will receive a reward for what we have done since becoming saved from our sins).

I believe that the Lake of Fire has already been created. I believe that it does exist. There is no Scripture that refutes this.

Can you this brother?

Paul, Paul, Paul worshiper.

Go to your naughty corner...naughtycorner

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

Yes, we do go straight to Heaven when we die. The Judgment Seat of Christ is not a judgment to determine where we will spend eternity (I can tell that the you have a “works-centered” mentality about salvation becomes it keeps coming out in your speech), it corresponds with what I have been saying all along: rewards. Our salvation is decided for us based on our decision to exercise faith in Jesus Christ’s redemptive work on our behalf in--this life, not while we are in Heaven. We must choose this day whom we will serve. As Joshua said,

Joshua 24:15
“…But as for me and my house we will serve the Lord.”

So, we are saved “before” we go to Heaven, not after we get there and are Judged by Jesus Christ (this makes no sense and it contradicts Scripture). The apostle Paul states in his letter to the Romans,

Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 10:13
For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

Romans 14:10
But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Salvation precedes the Judgment Seat of Christ. We are already saved before or prior to standing before the Lord Jesus Christ (at His judgment seat) to receive the things done in the body whether good or bad (again this is talking about whether we will receive a reward for what we have done since becoming saved from our sins).

I believe that the Lake of Fire has already been created. I believe that it does exist. There is no Scripture that refutes this.

Can you this brother? [/B]

**That would not be a loss, that would be a gain. For example, if I lost the sin of adultery through this fiery examination then I have actually gained its antithesis (marital fidelity). Can you see the asininity of this logic? That is why I continue to harp on context because without it you cannot rightly divide the Word of Truth. It makes no sense at all that 1 Corinthians 3:8, 13-16 is talking about both works of the flesh and works of the kingdom that are done in the flesh,” as you maintain. That interpretation does not fit and is incompatible with the surrounding verses. What we stand to suffer loss from based on 1 Corinthians 3:8, 13-16 is any works that we do that were not deemed worthy of a reward or rewards based on the quality of them. It is not talking about burning up works of the flesh so that we can go to Heaven or burning up any works that need to be purified or removed from us.**

You are missing a piece. To suffer loss is to not receive full reward acocrding to 2 John 8. There is nothing suggesting that sins are not included in the idea of works. Works include all the things we do, there is nothing suggesting otherwise. The only thing stated is that there are good works and their are sins, or impurely motivated good works. The later two are singled out as being burned up because they do not stand the test of fire. As a consequence we do not receive our full reward, that is, we lose apart of the reward we would have gotten for our good deeds. That is exactly what this is saying and that is why we can suffer loss for our deeds as the fire does not remove them (as only the blood of Christ can do so), it reveals, but Christ is the judge.

On us going straight to heaven:

I never stated that the judgement seat was a judging of salvation because it isn't. You are jumping to false conclusions. Our salvation is guarenteed or lost before the judgement, however, the judgement that determines our reward (not our salvation) is before heaven.

As Revelations 20:12 says, the dead are brought before God, judged, then sent to Hades. It is only after Satan is thrown into the lake of fire that Hades will be as well according to the chronological order of Revelations 20.

Originally posted by Nellinator

I re-stated back to you what you "originally" held (it appears that you have changed your position on the penance, purification, purgatory thing.

**That would not be a loss, that would be a gain. For example, if I lost the sin of adultery through this fiery examination then I have actually gained its antithesis (marital fidelity). Can you see the asininity of this logic? That is why I continue to harp on context because without it you cannot rightly divide the Word of Truth. It makes no sense at all that 1 Corinthians 3:8, 13-16 is talking about both works of the flesh and works of the kingdom that are done in the flesh,” as you maintain. That interpretation does not fit and is incompatible with the surrounding verses. What we stand to suffer loss from based on 1 Corinthians 3:8, 13-16 is any works that we do that were not deemed worthy of a reward or rewards based on the quality of them. It is not talking about burning up works of the flesh so that we can go to Heaven or burning up any works that need to be purified or removed from us.**

You are missing a piece. To suffer loss is to not receive full reward acocrding to 2 John 8. There is nothing suggesting that sins are not included in the idea of works. Works include all the things we do, there is nothing suggesting otherwise. The only thing stated is that there are good works and their are sins, or impurely motivated good works. The later two are singled out as being burned up because they do not stand the test of fire. As a consequence we do not receive our full reward, that is, we lose apart of the reward we would have gotten for our good deeds. That is exactly what this is saying and that is why we can suffer loss for our deeds as the fire does not remove them (as only the blood of Christ can do so), it reveals, but Christ is the judge.

There is nothing suggesting that sin is included in the idea of works in reference to reward. I am simply stating that the Scripture reference that you provided (1 Corinthians 3:8, 13-16) does not support your supposition that that word works includes or means sinful works based on the context. The word “works” is not modified there as it is in Galatians 5:19.

Now if that reference had said "work of the flesh," then it would but it does not. In short, it is not the works of the flesh that are consumed in 1 Corinthians 3:15.

On us going straight to heaven:

I never stated that the judgement seat was a judging of salvation because it isn't. You are jumping to false conclusions. Our salvation is guarenteed or lost before the judgement, however, the judgement that determines our reward (not our salvation) is before heaven.

Brother, you seem to change your statements periodically, here is what you said:

Originally posted by Nellinator
Also, we do not go straight to heaven, we first go to the judgement seat of Christ, from where we go either to heaven or Hades.

Brother, you just stated that a person must first go to (or through) this judgment before going to Heaven or Hades, you mention nothing about rewards. The way that you state it leaves the impression that a person’s salvation is determined at the judgment seat, because they can only go to one of two places: Heaven or Hades. But then you just said that the judgment seat is not a judging of salvation. If it is not (and I do not believe that it is either) then everyone who goes there should go to Heaven. The judgment seat of Christ is for believers not unbelievers. No unbeliever will go before the judgment seat of Christ, they will go before the Great White Throne, so who is the person that goes to Hades? You said that we will either go to Heaven or Hades from the judgment seat. But then you state,

“I never stated that the judgement seat was a judging of salvation because it isn't.”

Can you see this?

Brother it appears that you are contradicting yourself, but then you seem to change what you say in subsequent posts to clean up or fix what you said in a previous post. But all I have to do is go back to a previous post and paste it to show exactly what you said as I did just now.

As Revelations 20:12 says, the dead are brought before God, judged, then sent to Hades. It is only after Satan is thrown into the lake of fire that Hades will be as well according to the chronological order of Revelations 20.

But that does not mean that the Lake of Fire does not exist. I believe that the Lake of Fire exists right now. There are no Scriptures that refute this.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
On us going straight to heaven:

I never stated that the judgement seat was a judging of salvation because it isn't. You are jumping to false conclusions. Our salvation is guarenteed or lost before the judgement, however, the judgement that determines our reward (not our salvation) is before heaven.

Brother, you seem to change your statements periodically, here is what you said:

Brother, you just stated that a person must [b]first go through this judgment before going to Heaven or Hades, you mention nothing about rewards. The way that you state it leaves the impression that a person’s salvation is determined at the judgment seat, because they can only go to one of two places: Heaven or Hades. But then you just said that the judgment seat is not a judging of salvation. If it is not (and I do not believe that it is either) then everyone who goes there should go to Heaven. The judgment seat of Christ is for believers not unbelievers. No unbeliever will go before the judgment seat of Christ, they will go before the Great White Throne, so who is the person that goes to Hades? You said that we will either go to Heaven or Hades from the judgment seat. But then you state,

“I never stated that the judgement seat was a judging of salvation because it isn't.”

Can you see this?

Brother it appears that you are contradicting yourself, but then you seem to change what you say in subsequent posts to clean up or fix what you said in a previous post. But all I have to do is go back to a previous post and paste it to show exactly what you said as I did just now.

As Revelations 20:12 says, the dead are brought before God, judged, then sent to Hades. It is only after Satan is thrown into the lake of fire that Hades will be as well according to the chronological order of Revelations 20.

But that does not mean that the Lake of Fire does not exist. I believe that the Lake of Fire exists right now. There are no Scriptures that refute this. [/B]

I still hold that we go to judgement first because it is scriptural. I never said that it was where salvation was decided, that was your own misinterpretation. Every man is judged according to his deeds and rewarded there. It is seperate from salvation. The Great White Throne is the same thing as the judgement seat of Christ. As Revelations 20:15 says, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire". Therefore, both believers and non-believers are judged here as the book of life will single out those written in it. We are judged once which is why they must be the same.

I will concede to you that the Lake of Fire does already exist. However, you were incorrect when you said that non-believers go straight to the lake of fire because they go to Hades which is later thrown into the lake of fire.

Originally posted by Nellinator
You simply misunderstand me in combination with a few carelessly worded sentences, I have not changed anything about my belief.

I still hold that we go to judgement first because it is scriptural. I never said that it was where salvation was decided, that was your own misinterpretation. Every man is judged according to his deeds and rewarded there. It is seperate from salvation. The Great White Throne is the same thing as the judgement seat of Christ. As Revelations 20:15 says, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire". Therefore, both believers and non-believers are judged here as the book of life will single out those written in it. We are judged once which is why they must be the same.

I will concede to you that the Lake of Fire does already exist. However, you were incorrect when you said that non-believers go straight to the lake of fire because they go to Hades which is later thrown into the lake of fire.

I never said anything about unbelievers going straight to the Lake of Fire.

You said this:
"But unbelievers go immediately to Hell at death just like the rich man."

However, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were actually referring to Hades, in which case I apologize. That is why I don't use the word hell, it get confusing and misused. It is easier to simply use Hades/Sheol and Tartarus/lake of fire.

Originally posted by Nellinator

Perhaps I have misunderstood you, sorry, but you are not completely exonerated because like you said, “you had a few carelessly worded sentences.”

😄

I still hold that we go to judgement first because it is scriptural. I never said that it was where salvation was decided, that was your own misinterpretation.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Also, we do not go straight to heaven, we first go to the judgement seat of Christ, from where we go either to heaven or Hades.

Stating that we go either to Heaven or Hades from the judgment Seat of Christ is very misleading because we are already in Heaven at that point.

Every man is judged according to his deeds and rewarded there. It is separate from salvation. The Great White Throne is the same thing as the judgement seat of Christ.

The judgment seat of Christ and the Great White Throne Judgment are not one and the same. Here is why: the Great White Throne Judgment occurs after the 7 year Tribulation period. It actually occurs after the 1,000 reign of Jesus Christ on earth. The only people mentioned in attendance at the Great White Throne Judgment are the dead. Believers are not dead during this point because the catching away (aka. The Rapture) has already taken place. During the Rapture the righteous dead are resurrected, this is called the “first” resurrection. So the Great White Throne Judgment is for unbelievers.

As Revelations 20:15 says, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire". Therefore, both believers and non-believers are judged here as the book of life will single out those written in it. We are judged once which is why they must be the same.

The only people not found written in the (Lamb’s) Book of Life are unbelievers. Revelation 20:12 states very specifically that the “dead” will be judged according to their works. There will not be any dead believers because all believers will already have resurrected, glorified bodies at this point in time. Furthermore, Revelation 20:12 mentions the word “dead” at least two times. Do you think that God is trying to tell us something? Believers will go before the judgment seat of Christ, but unbelievers will go before God (the Father). The Bible states that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Thank God that we will not have to do it.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Also, we do not go straight to heaven, we first go to the judgement seat of Christ, from where we go either to heaven or Hades.

The judgment seat of Christ is in Heaven because that is where Jesus is. Hence, we (i.e. believers) do go straight to Heaven (at death). There is no alternative as such for “believers” as far as going to Heaven or Hell (we have already decided where we want to go at death "before" we die). So the whole “from where we go either to Heaven or Hades,” statement is not correct.

I will concede to you that the Lake of Fire does already exist. However, you were incorrect when you said that non-believers go straight to the lake of fire because they go to Hades which is later thrown into the lake of fire.

I never said that unbelievers go straight to the Lake of Fire. Here is why: perhaps the Lake of Fire is the future, eternal residence of everyone who’s names are not found written in the Book of Life.