Kratos vs Sephiroth

Originally posted by Burning thought
power is nothing to do with it, something hard to hold would be something heavy, fast moving etc etc thats something hard to hold, Holy was just seeminly plucked out of the air by willpower, the things made of energy so it has an unkown weight and it wasnt doing anything apart from moving was it not towards it location? so no it would not necessarily be hard to hold, more likely the opposite considering its energy body

what other fiction have you seen that makes you think that something powerful is hard to hold, a non living thing of unkown weght and resistence?

Also a nuclear bombs explosion is completly diffrent to holy, a nuclear bomb is a constant force blastwave once it goes off, we "know" it would be difficult to hold, but Holy isnt giving off a constant blast wave.

Holy is able to travel continents is seconds (fast) what makes things "heavy" hard to hold is by FORCE, the weight and gravity makes the FORCE powerful, think about it, Holy is a powerful output of energy force that can travel continents in seconds, and it is able to rip through anything in its path.

A nuclear bomb explosion blast is an output of energy travelling outwards, yes the energy would be hard to hold, Holy is an output of energy travelling towards meteor, but the energy was contained by Sephiroth.

*sigh*

Sephiroth can protect himself with a barrier above city-busting attacks(the one around the Crater in FFVII, that couldn't be destroyed by the normal Junon Cannon, the same Cannon stated to be a city-buster, in Before Crisis). He can phase through all of Kratos attacks(intangibility). He can regenerate his entire body in seconds(he did that in AC, by using the J-cells in that box).
Barrier + intangibility + insane regeneration(IIRC he is described as "nigh immortal" in the Ultimania, just because of that). How the fuc* could Kratos kill, or even hurt him?!

And I'm only talking about his deffense. It's not like Sephiroth will stay there doing nothing, while Kratos attacks him.

Seriously, some people in this forum underrate Sephiroth all the time, just because they think he is overrated. It's ridiculous.

Originally posted by SHM
*sigh*

Sephiroth can protect himself with a barrier above city-busting attacks(the one around the Crater in FFVII, that couldn't be destroyed by the [b]normal Junon Cannon, the same Cannon stated to be a city-buster, in Before Crisis). He can phase through all of Kratos attacks(intangibility). He can regenerate his entire body in seconds(he did that in AC, by using the J-cells in that box).
Barrier + intangibility + insane regeneration(IIRC he is described as "nigh immortal" in the Ultimania, just because of that). How the fuc* could Kratos kill, or even hurt him?!

And I'm only talking about his deffense. It's not like Sephiroth will stay there doing nothing, while Kratos attacks him.

Seriously, some people in this forum underrate Sephiroth all the time, just because they think he is overrated. It's ridiculous. [/B]

Sephiroth has never used intangibility, the Jenova clones did. And he has NEVER used it in battle.

Regeneration? Bullshit, he was CLEARLY shown to take over Kadaj's body, not regen from nothing. Kadaj transformed into Sephiroth.

With a sword, like Cloud.

What "Jenova clones"? You mean the body parts of Jenova he used? Well see, in AC he has the entire body as himself, in AC he became the newest stage evolution of Jenova.

1. Has he ever shown to be able to do a smaller more battle worthy form of that barrier? I think not.

YouTube video

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Has he ever shown to be able to do a smaller more battle worthy form of that barrier? I think not.

Yeah, fine, whatever. He doesn't need it to win anyway.

Sephiroth has never used intangibility, the Jenova clones did.

There isn't any "Jenova Clones" in FFVII. Sephiroth turned intangible by using the powers of a body made of 100% Jenova cells. A body exactly like the one he was using in AC.

And he has NEVER used it in battle.

See? This type of argument is only used by Sephiroth-haters, who are so desparate to underrate him, that they come with this nonsense bullshit, just because they want him to lose.

Who cares if he never used it in a battle? He CAN turn intangible, and that's the point. What Kratos could do to harm him? Nothing.

Regeneration? Bullshit, he was CLEARLY shown to take over Kadaj's body, not regen from nothing. Kadaj transformed into Sephiroth.

That's another reason why some people underrate him: lack of knowledge.
Kadaj didn't transform, because he wasn't even a physical being. He was a spirit.
To return to life, Sephiroth needed a physical body, and then he used the Jenova-cells. That's why Kadaj and the others are after the cells in the first place, to bring him back.
The cells were the host for Sephiroth's consciousness, not Kadaj.

How do I know this? Because of the Reunion Files. Go read it.

With a sword, like Cloud.

But not with Omnislash Version 5, like Cloud, or an attack on the same level.

Now please, stop ignoring his abilities just because you don't like him.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Holy is able to travel continents is seconds (fast) what makes things "heavy" hard to hold is by FORCE, the weight and gravity makes the FORCE powerful, think about it, Holy is a powerful output of energy force that can travel continents in seconds, and it is able to rip through anything in its path.

A nuclear bomb explosion blast is an output of energy travelling outwards, yes the energy would be hard to hold, Holy is an output of energy travelling towards meteor, but the energy was contained by Sephiroth.

Yes its fast BUT heres the rub, how can you prove its heavy? and no, weight and gravity depends on the friction of the object, if the object is just energy you cant prove its weight, it has no density.

It has an output of force and energy, its very diffrent and that depends, hard ot hold for whom? no human has TK and no one has ever even tried to hold a nuclear bomb, theres no TK in the real world so how can you compare something like that hm? Sephiroth ever held a nuclear blast? no ofc not.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes its fast BUT heres the rub, how can you prove its heavy? and no, weight and gravity depends on the friction of the object, if the object is just energy you cant prove its weight, it has no density.

It has an output of force and energy, its very diffrent and that depends, hard ot hold for whom? no human has TK and no one has ever even tried to hold a nuclear bomb, theres no TK in the real world so how can you compare something like that hm? Sephiroth ever held a nuclear blast? no ofc not.

See, this is where YOU don't understand all WEIGHT is, is FORCE of the gravitational pull,(in actual physics, half of FORCE is the acceleration speed) now heres the common logic part, a powerful energy force that can travel continents in seconds (speed) destroying everything in its path, in theory; that is similar to a explosion blast. ( going by your logic " if the object is just energy you cant prove its weight, it has no density." then an explosion blast would be easy to contain right? But we all know thats false.)

No, but we can use our imagination, never has any character in fiction ever held a big explosion with ease with TK, you can think of TK as bringing up a wall, the power of the TK depends on how powerful that wall is, normally an explosion would shatter any wall unless that wall is powerful enough.

Originally posted by SHM
Yeah, fine, whatever. He doesn't need it to win anyway.

There isn't any "Jenova Clones" in FFVII. Sephiroth turned intangible by using the powers of a body made of 100% Jenova cells. A body exactly like the one he was using in AC.

See? This type of argument is only used by Sephiroth-haters, who are so desparate to underrate him, that they come with this nonsense bullshit, just because they want him to lose.

Who cares if he never used it in a battle? He CAN turn intangible, and that's the point. What Kratos could do to harm him? Nothing.

That's another reason why some people underrate him: lack of knowledge.
Kadaj didn't transform, because he wasn't even a physical being. He was a spirit.
To return to life, Sephiroth needed a physical body, and then he used the Jenova-cells. That's why Kadaj and the others are after the cells in the first place, to bring him back.
The cells were the host for Sephiroth's consciousness, not Kadaj.

How do I know this? Because of the Reunion Files. Go read it.

[b]

But not with Omnislash Version 5, like Cloud, or an attack on the same level.

Now please, stop ignoring his abilities just because you don't like him.

2. Okay. I will rephrase this. A body made from Jenova. O RLY? Then wtf was Kadaj even there for if he can regen from just a friggin head? Also, if he has t3h super regen, why has he NEVER healed from a single wound in battle? What can Kratos do to harm him? Well in a physical fight overpower him and rip in half for one, and let's not forget Kratos' versatility advantage, he can turn Seph to stone in a flash and shatter Seph. Regen from that. Sure, the cells were needed to bring him back, but so was Kadaj, or at least one of the SHM, because if he did not, he should have been able to regen from just the head, but could not. If he did not transform...Then why the hell did we clearly see him do it? We saw Kadaj transform into Sephiroth.

3. Lol, Kratos has no attacks on Omnislash V. 5? The Blade of Olympus pisses on it.

Originally posted by Terryc250
See, this is where YOU don't understand all WEIGHT is, is FORCE of the gravitational pull,(in actual physics, half of FORCE is the acceleration speed) now heres the common logic part, a powerful energy force that can travel continents in seconds (speed) destroying everything in its path, in theory; that is similar to a explosion blast. ( going by your logic " if the object is just energy you cant prove its weight, it has no density." then an explosion blast would be easy to contain right? But we all know thats false.)

No, but we can use our imagination, never has any character in fiction ever held a big explosion with ease with TK, you can think of TK as bringing up a wall, the power of the TK depends on how powerful that wall is, normally an explosion would shatter any wall unless that wall is powerful enough.

No you dont understand, there is zero friction and when the TK hits it, zero force or movement, TK isnt a wall, what are you talking about, this is where YOU go wrong. Its a ball of energy traveling at speeds and suddenly it is stopped moving basically, nothing says here whether its hard to stop, especially since no one else does it, or tries to do it. An explosion blast is unkown to contain, we dont know thats false at all? wtf you talking about, we dont have TK or special fields, we have nothing to even attempt to contain an explosion, we can only use other physical objects of varying density.

Im not speculating with Kratos' god form but peak Sephiroth feats should allow him to take Kratos

Although Kratos has defeated God's, you gotta put in to perspective how powerful those gods were, yeah strong but nothing obsenely powerful. In additino his slaying of Ares wasnt under his own power, wasnt it Pandora's box?

His beating of Zeus WAS his own power and skill though.

And the Blade of Olympus pisses on Seph in terms of power.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. I'll just answer Terry on this subject. He can create a barrier, true, but as he was a SOLDIER at that time, he clearly had materia, and there is materia used to make barriers. Also, there is no proof that barrier was as strong as the one that tanked the canon.

2. Okay. I will rephrase this. A body made from Jenova. O RLY? Then wtf was Kadaj even there for if he can regen from just a friggin head? Also, if he has t3h super regen, why has he NEVER healed from a single wound in battle? What can Kratos do to harm him? Well in a physical fight overpower him and rip in half for one, and let's not forget Kratos' versatility advantage, he can turn Seph to stone in a flash and shatter Seph. Regen from that. Sure, the cells were needed to bring him back, but so was Kadaj, or at least one of the SHM, because if he did not, he should have been able to regen from just the head, but could not. If he did not transform...Then why the hell did we clearly see him do it? We saw Kadaj transform into Sephiroth.

3. Lol, Kratos has no attacks on Omnislash V. 5? The Blade of Olympus pisses on it.

If you dont address materia as his own power, thats like regarding his sword as a foreign power as well but even so thats ok. He does use materia when he uses Wall in his Seraph/Safer Sephiroth form, which is techniqually the only version of him thats actually his physical person minus CC which you seem to count his powers from materia.

All of the in game feats are actually Jenova taking the appearance of Sephiroth and before you go off on how its not Sephiroth, he has excerted his will over Jenova and she has embraced him as her actual "son" as expressed in the translation of the new One Winged Angel. All of his in game appearance feats are resonable to attribute to himself, even if it was a Jenova replication, those of which would include intangibility (as seen on right before Jenova Birth fight and Ancients temple before Red Dragon), Flight (Through out the game, Crisis Core, Advent Children), Teleportation (Ancients temple), Telekenesis (Advent Children on the buildings, and right before the final fight in the original game on the entire party), mind manipulation/control/invasion/ telepathy (Cloud multiple times in the game), Astral Projection (multiple times in game, mainly Ancients temple to monitor what the party is doing), Immunity to status effects (petrification, slowing, poison, etc.)

Originally posted by Hannibal-Lector
If you dont address materia as his own power, thats like regarding his sword as a foreign power as well but even so thats ok. He does use materia when he uses Wall in his Seraph/Safer Sephiroth form, which is techniqually the only version of him thats actually his physical person minus CC which you seem to count his powers from materia.

All of the in game feats are actually Jenova taking the appearance of Sephiroth and before you go off on how its not Sephiroth, he has excerted his will over Jenova and she has embraced him as her actual "son" as expressed in the translation of the new One Winged Angel. All of his in game appearance feats are resonable to attribute to himself, even if it was a Jenova replication, those of which would include intangibility (as seen on right before Jenova Birth fight and Ancients temple before Red Dragon), Flight (Through out the game, Crisis Core, Advent Children), Teleportation (Ancients temple), Telekenesis (Advent Children on the buildings, and right before the final fight in the original game on the entire party), mind manipulation/control/invasion/ telepathy (Cloud multiple times in the game), Astral Projection (multiple times in game, mainly Ancients temple to monitor what the party is doing), Immunity to status effects (petrification, slowing, poison, etc.)

2. But here is the thing, we have never seen any being who was actually Sephiroth use intangibility(which was also never used in battle btw). Flying, teleportation, TK, and TP he HAS shown to be able to use, as in Seph himself has. Regeneration is just bullshit though, if Seph had any kinda friggin healing factor, he wouldn't have had the shit kicked out of him.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No you dont understand, there is zero friction and when the TK hits it, zero force or movement, TK isnt a wall, what are you talking about, this is where YOU go wrong. Its a ball of energy traveling at speeds and suddenly it is stopped moving basically, nothing says here whether its hard to stop, especially since no one else does it, or tries to do it. An explosion blast is unkown to contain, we dont know thats false at all? wtf you talking about, we dont have TK or special fields, we have nothing to even attempt to contain an explosion, we can only use other physical objects of varying density.

If we go by your theory, hell, a nuclear explosion should be easily contained with TK, but obviously common logic tells us its not.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Well here is the thing, does Sephiroth have said materia in this fight? If this is AC Seph, then no, the only materia he could possibly have is any Kadaj did. Seph in CC was a SOLDIER, who typically use materia.

2. But here is the thing, we have never seen any being who was actually Sephiroth use intangibility(which was also never used in battle btw). Flying, teleportation, TK, and TP he HAS shown to be able to use, as in Seph himself has. Regeneration is just bullshit though, if Seph had any kinda friggin healing factor, he wouldn't have had the shit kicked out of him.

You do know the negative lifestream grants him magic right? All materia does is aid the user into tapping magic out of the lifestream, Sephiroth has power over the negative lifestream which grants him magic.

Sephiroth does have access to all these powers and has shown he has the ability to do them, just because he didnt use it in a 10 minute fight with Cloud (in which he purposely didn't use his powers) doesnt mean he's unable to do them.

Originally posted by Terryc250
You dont need "friction" you just need a power force pushing against it, TK is breakable depending on how powerful the user is, you're talking like Holy is some harmless thing, no its a powerful energy, that was stated could destroy everything on the planet, so there you have a powerful force that can destroy/disintegrate everything in its path, and we see it travelling continents in seconds, so there we have speed, common logic; poweful force(enough to destroy everything no the planet) + powerful speed (fast enough to travel continents in seconds) = hard to hold.

If we go by your theory, hell, a nuclear explosion should be easily contained with TK, but obviously common logic tells us its not.

No nothing points to how powerful the user is, if something needs ot move, yet your just stopping it with your mind, then nothings actually pushing against it, its just being stopped, and yes it is a harmless thing when its not hitting anything. Yeh and its travelling towards nothingness yet stops because of it, it cannot have any power against simply nothing can it? no ofcourse not. So no, thats not common logic, powerful speed of a piece of popcorn would not make it harder to top if you could use TK to pluck it out of the air, and the powerful force is not excisting until it hits, otherwise its just energy since it doesnt explode when Sephiroth grabs it. So powerful energy but harmless due to it not hitting anything+an unkown weight factor due ot it being energy anyway=common logic telling us it wasnt hard to hold at all.

No, no logic tells us that, and technically thats wrong, according to my theory a nuclear explosion is not able to be measured against TK because humans dont have it, so you cant say common logic tells us its not since we dont have TK, so you dont know what your talking about here, furthermore ive already explained this, the nuclear missle itself flying towards the target is more like holy when Sephiroth takes it, and that can be stopped since like Holy its power is not expressed yet, the explosion of a nuke itself is nothing like holy when Sephiroth takes it, since Sephiroth would never be able to stop the nuclear explosion, yet we can see him stopping holy.

Originally posted by Terryc250
You do know the negative lifestream grants him magic right? All materia does is aid the user into tapping magic out of the lifestream, Sephiroth has power over the negative lifestream which grants him magic.

Sephiroth does have access to all these powers and has shown he has the ability to do them, just because he didnt use it in a 10 minute fight with Cloud (in which he purposely didn't use his powers) doesnt mean he's unable to do them.

Can you prove this? can you prove that having simply raw lifestream is the same as having Materia, you said to me once that Materia is specially made.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Can you prove this? can you prove that having simply raw lifestream is the same as having Materia, you said to me once that Materia is specially made.

Well he doesnt have ne materia in his Seraph/Safer Sephiroth form, and he casts magic... although he has had like 5 years exposure to the pure life stream

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Well here is the thing, does Sephiroth have said materia in this fight? If this is AC Seph, then no, the only materia he could possibly have is any Kadaj did. Seph in CC was a SOLDIER, who typically use materia.

2. But here is the thing, we have never seen any being who was actually Sephiroth use intangibility(which was also never used in battle btw). Flying, teleportation, TK, and TP he HAS shown to be able to use, as in Seph himself has. Regeneration is just bullshit though, if Seph had any kinda friggin healing factor, he wouldn't have had the shit kicked out of him.

If ur going by AC Sephiroth, then it is Jenova in taking the form of Sephiroth because Sephiroth wills jenova to do so. Going by that sinces its techniqually Jenova, all of the Jenova Sephiroth feats apply. If your going by Crisis core, he gets materia. If your going by original game form (minus Seraph/Safer an Bizzaro) then all feats of Jenova apply. Sephiroth himself at the end of the game (his actual physical person, not Jenova in the form of Sephiroth) shows shapeshifting, TK, Flying, magic, Teleportation (or possibly invisibility then turning visible).

Originally posted by Burning thought
No nothing points to how powerful the user is, if something needs ot move, yet your just stopping it with your mind, then nothings actually pushing against it, its just being stopped, and yes it is a harmless thing when its not hitting anything. Yeh and its travelling towards nothingness yet stops because of it, it cannot have any power against simply nothing can it? no ofcourse not. So no, thats not common logic, powerful speed of a piece of popcorn would not make it harder to top if you could use TK to pluck it out of the air, and the powerful force is not excisting until it hits, otherwise its just energy since it doesnt explode when Sephiroth grabs it. So powerful energy but harmless due to it not hitting anything+an unkown weight factor due ot it being energy anyway=common logic telling us it wasnt hard to hold at all.

Travelled towards nothingness? It was summoned to stop meteor, however it was STOPPED by Sephiroth as it was stated in the game, and even in the novel, that is why at the end when finally Sephiroth was defeated it freed Holy and Holy shot out to stop meteor but was too late, and thats why it needed the lifestream.

No, no logic tells us that, and technically thats wrong, according to my theory a nuclear explosion is not able to be measured against TK because humans dont have it, so you cant say common logic tells us its not since we dont have TK, so you dont know what your talking about here, furthermore ive already explained this, the nuclear missle itself flying towards the target is more like holy when Sephiroth takes it, and that can be stopped since like Holy its power is not expressed yet, the explosion of a nuke itself is nothing like holy when Sephiroth takes it, since Sephiroth would never be able to stop the nuclear explosion, yet we can see him stopping holy.

A detonated nuclear bomb explosion that would destroy an entire city would be HARD to contain with TK just as a powerful wind would break through a wall, don't give me the "well its never happened in real life so you cant know" TK has been broken through MANY MANY times in fiction, all you need is a force powerful enough

Can you prove this? can you prove that having simply raw lifestream is the same as having Materia, you said to me once that Materia is specially made. [/B]

Thats why we see the SHM were able to summon shadow creeps without any materia, they had a little bit of control over the negative lifestream, Sephiroth has full control as he is the creator of it.

Originally posted by Terryc250
You do know the negative lifestream grants him magic right? All materia does is aid the user into tapping magic out of the lifestream, Sephiroth has power over the negative lifestream which grants him magic.

Sephiroth does have access to all these powers and has shown he has the ability to do them, just because he didnt use it in a 10 minute fight with Cloud (in which he purposely didn't use his powers) doesnt mean he's unable to do them.

2. No, Jenova has shown the power to use them.