Time vs Realty Manipulation...

I don't know the idea behind reality warping powers seem to be the bility to alter the present thus as making someone not exist is as simple as not making them exist at the moment.

I understand some people are trying to say but they would make them never exist even in the begining which is not true and I'll use the X-man Bishop for this little demo.

Bishop comes back and helps stop something bad from happening after doing said deed he still exists even after time has been altered. Now this means that while reality from that point on had changed he still existed in time because he was outside of the reality that had happened by being out of that reality and in a different time.

Originally posted by Roldz
This never actually happened.. 😉

Yes it actualy still did happen. No cause if it didnt then you have a paradox. Cause if it never happened then Wanda never made the House of M universe.

Why is this so hard to understand? Reality alters the present and if left unchanged the future, but it has no power over events before reality was altered.

Ive provided 2 examples to prove this which have been completely ignored. So if all your going to do is try to out post me and not listen to anything I'm actually saying then this debate is pointless.

Originally posted by Galan777
extant (even all of his copies) still exist within a universe..... Wanda destroyed/re-wrote the universe, hence in one swift blow she makes it as though all the extant copies no longer have their powers 😄

Originally posted by Galan777
^

No she cannot effect the copies which are in the past.

As I stated I've given to example, one of which is from the comics how reality is altered yet a person can travel back to before the reality altering happened hence it doesn't effect the past.

Originally posted by Ext@nt
No she cannot effect the copies which are in the past.

As I stated I've given to example, one of which is from the comics how reality is altered yet a person can travel back to before the reality altering happened hence it doesn't effect the past.

Originally posted by Ext@nt
Yes it actualy still did happen. No cause if it didnt then you have a paradox. Cause if it never happened then Wanda never made the House of M universe.

Why is this so hard to understand? Reality alters the present and if left unchanged the future, but it has no power over events before reality was altered.

Ive provided 2 examples to prove this which have been completely ignored. So if all your going to do is try to out post me and not listen to anything I'm actually saying then this debate is pointless.

I'll try again...
Time and Space are tools used to make up the Reality in which a character lives. However, as we have seen so far, even Reality manipulators have limitations. The limitation is that, they do not alter our current reality. Instead, they make a new one. Which is why, with time manip powers, you could either go back to the beginning of this false reality, or, concievably, go back to before it was formed, and the unaltered timeline.

However- could someone with complete mastery over reality manipulation instead of creatin a new reality, simply permanently alter the current one? So that traveling to before it was created becomes impossible.

Depends on your will and grasp of reality manipulation.

A great reality manipulator, can manipulate time--the 4th dimension, as well as the 3 dimensions of space. I'm not sure how comic book physics relate to real world physics; but according to many physicists, time may be different in different parts of the universe. Like black holes, as you approach the event horizon of a black hole, time slows down and you experience time slower than a person that would be looking at you disappear in an instant. A time manipluator cant travel back before the reality was being manipulated in that area, or dimension, or universe. It would either A. Be traveling back in a warped reality, B. time travel would not occur at all, or C. he'd end up in an alternate reality, depending on the grasp on each of both opponents. But someone on a universal scale that warps reality could somehow trap the time-traveler? I think so.

Originally posted by Ext@nt
No she cannot effect the copies which are in the past.

As I stated I've given to example, one of which is from the comics how reality is altered yet a person can travel back to before the reality altering happened hence it doesn't effect the past.

Originally posted by Galan777
Why? cap america existed in the present and in the past, and Wanda made it as though he NEVER took the serum, she could do the same type of thing to Extant

No she took his powers away and he thought he never did.

If the events leading up to Wanda making House of M never existed, then House of M never existed.

It becomes a Paradox which destorys the universe.

Hence the events that created House of M still exist and can be altered.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
I'll try again...
Time and Space are tools used to make up the Reality in which a character lives. However, as we have seen so far, even Reality manipulators have limitations. The limitation is that, they do not alter our current reality. Instead, they make a new one. Which is why, with time manip powers, you could either go back to the beginning of this false reality, or, concievably, go back to before it was formed, and the unaltered timeline.

However- could someone with complete mastery over reality manipulation instead of creatin a new reality, simply permanently alter the current one? So that traveling to before it was created becomes impossible.

No offence but with everyone using HOM Wanda as refernce. If she had changed all reality including time would that not mean that they would never be able to go back to the original reality???

Originally posted by Ext@nt
No she took his powers away and he thought he never did.

If the events leading up to Wanda making House of M never existed, then House of M never existed.

It becomes a Paradox which destorys the universe.

Hence the events that created House of M still exist and can be altered.

The point I'm trying to make is, there has to be a point where a new reality is created otherwise it can never BE made and a paradox occurs and reality goes bye bye.

Why are we punishing ourselves by arguing temperol mechanics?

Originally posted by Ext@nt
No she took his powers away and he thought he never did.

If the events leading up to Wanda making House of M never existed, then House of M never existed.

It becomes a Paradox which destorys the universe.

Hence the events that created House of M still exist and can be altered.

The bottom line is that this thread is complete reality manipulation v.s. complete time manipulation. not wanda v.s. extant

and if you have complete mastery over reality then you control the reality in the past, present, and future. (so you in essence control time as well, because time IS a part of reality)

So whoever controls reality to the fullest, can not only manipulate time, but they can manipulate reality in every disension, not just the present.

for that reason complete reality manipulation wins everytime.

Originally posted by Galan777
The bottom line is that this thread is complete reality manipulation v.s. complete time manipulation. not wanda v.s. extant

and if you have complete mastery over reality then you control the reality in the past, present, and future. (so you in essence control time as well, because time IS a part of reality)

So whoever controls reality to the fullest, can not only manipulate time, but they can manipulate reality in every disension, not just the present.

for that reason reality manipulation wins everytime.

And you have yet to give me an example of a reality manipulator altering the past.

Originally posted by Ext@nt
And you have yet to give me an example of a reality manipulator altering the past.

Originally posted by Ext@nt
And you have yet to give me an example of a reality manipulator altering the past.

or one of a time manipulator traversing a reality, of a reality manipulator on a universal scale. 😛

Originally posted by Galan777
examples are not needed, there is no way to debate the statment i made

Reality manipulation allows you to alter the present and if left unchaned the future but not the past, please provide scans showing otherwise.

And I am really starting to regret making that respect thread.

Originally posted by Ext@nt
Reality manipulation allows you to alter the present and if left unchaned the future but not the past, please provide scans showing otherwise.