Originally posted by newjak86
No offence but with everyone using HOM Wanda as refernce. If she had changed all reality including time would that not mean that they would never be able to go back to the original reality???
Yeah and this thread was a bad idea as was my respect thread since it's causing a fight between us that everyone can see.
The flash example proves that after reality has been altered you can travel in time back to a point where it hasnt been altered yet.
By the way Deadman pulled the same trick in "Dead again"
Originally posted by Ext@ntIts not fighting my friend, just debating...... everything has been kept well civilized (as always).
Yeah and this thread was a bad idea as was my respect thread since it's causing a fight between us that everyone can see.
If people never disagreed with one another, then KMC would be a very boring site 😉
Originally posted by RoldzCorrect, even though Wanda "turned reality back" some of her changes still remained, namely 90% of the mutants still being depowered 😉
HOM was 616 universe when she manipulated it and even when she turned it back it was still not original, depowerd mutant and all.. So when she manipulate a reality it becomes the original one... Dont know if that made sense...
Originally posted by Ext@nt
Yeah and this thread was a bad idea as was my respect thread since it's causing a fight between us that everyone can see.The flash example proves that after reality has been altered you can travel in time back to a point where it hasnt been altered yet.
By the way Deadman pulled the same trick in "Dead again"
Ok look, time IS an aspect of reality. The five primary Infinity Gems, each represent one of realities basic building blocks(Mind, Soul, Time, Space, Power). Now those five gems give the user limited control over one particular aspect, but not COMPLETE control. In order to have complete control, the user HAS to have access to the reality gem also. For instance, someone with the space gem is able to teleport to another location, right? However, by using the space gem WITH the reality gem, the user could bring the desired location to him, by altering the reality of the locations place in space.
Here everyone take a look at something, this is from the Infinity War when the Magus and Warlock are battling over an incomplete Infinity Gauntlet...
See, when they start trying to mess with the fundamental forces of the universe without the reality gem to properly manage them, it causes a breach in the fabric of reality. And by the same token...
When the Reality Gem is used without the other five gems to focus it, there's another case of a reality rift. Warlock even comments that Thanos would know better than to use the Reality Gem, with out the others to control it.
See, think of the primary gems as the things that actually MAKE the changes, and the Reality Gem cements them into place. NONE of the primary gems give absolute control over their respective aspects, without the Reality Gem to seal the deal. And the Reality Gem doesn't give absolute control over it's aspect, without the other gems to focus the changes. Basically, a complete Infinity Gauntlet is simply absolute control over reality, and all its facets.
Also, when Warlock went inside of the second rift in reality, take a look at what he experienced...
See, he was experiencing distortions in aspects of reality that are controlled by the other gems. The one with the skeletons is a distortion in time.
So what does all this mean? Well someone with ABSOLUTE control control over reality DOES have control over time. So in a battle between being that have complete control over time and reality, reality wins, because time is simply a facet of reality, that allow for events to proceed in a linear fashion.
Reality manipulation gives the APPERANCE of time manipulation cause peoples minds fold into the new reality and believe it.
Reality is linked to perception, so Reality control does inmply MIND control but not time control. Since the events which lead to the Reality manipulation still exist. They must exist infact or the reality manipulation cannot have occured and a paradox happens which destorys the universe.
Therefore a person CAN go back in time to before the reality altering happened and prevent it from happening.
Originally posted by Ext@nt
Reality manipulation gives the APPERANCE of time manipulation cause peoples minds fold into the new reality and believe it.Reality is linked to perception, so Reality control does inmply MIND control but not time control. Since the events which lead to the Reality manipulation still exist. They must exist infact or the reality manipulation cannot have occured and a paradox happens which destorys the universe.
Therefore a person CAN go back in time to before the reality altering happened and prevent it from happening.
Originally posted by darthgooberThis is the point I was trying to make as well Darth....
So what does all this mean? Well someone with ABSOLUTE control control over reality DOES have control over time. So in a battle between being that have complete control over time and reality, reality wins, because time is simply a facet of reality, that allow for events to proceed in a linear fashion.
BTW Nice scans!
Originally posted by darthgoober
This may be true in cases of less than absolute control of reality, but absolute control is what I'm talking about. Absolute contol means absolute contole over what is REAL(the root word for reality), which means if you have absolute control over reality, you wouldn't give the appearance of altering the past, the changes would be REAL.
Okay then the universe is wiped out do to the paradox that would occur.
If you kill a persons parents, then that person does not exist anymore.
If you remove the point in time when the alterations to reality took place, then you remove the alterations themselves.
Reality is based on what we percive at THIS moment the universe to be.
I'm going to have the respect thread removed. I don't want to argue temproal mechanics everytime this comes up. That's why I didn't make the respect thread for so long.
This is a fun forum for disscussing comic books and you've dragged Philosophy and Physics into it.
It's causing arguements that are giving me reason to drink and drink allot.
In fact I am now going to drink. The thread will only cause more issues like this to come up and I don't know if you've ever taken a class in Philosophy and Physics but there is nothing fun about it. Anyways im gone for a few hours.
Originally posted by Ext@nt
Okay then the universe is wiped out do to the paradox that would occur.If you kill a persons parents, then that person does not exist anymore.
If you remove the point in time when the alterations to reality took place, then you remove the alterations themselves.
Reality is based on what we percive at THIS moment the universe to be.
I'm going to have the respect thread removed. I don't want to argue temproal mechanics everytime this comes up. That's why I didn't make the respect thread for so long.
This is a fun forum for disscussing comic books and you've dragged Philosophy and Physics into it.
Originally posted by Ext@nt
It's causing arguements that are giving me reason to drink and drink allot.In fact I am now going to drink. The thread will only cause more issues like this to come up and I don't know if you've ever taken a class in Philosophy and Physics but there is nothing fun about it. Anyways im gone for a few hours.
Originally posted by Ext@ntEven so, keep the extant respect thread open, it has the potential to be really good!
It's causing arguements that are giving me reason to drink and drink allot.In fact I am now going to drink. The thread will only cause more issues like this to come up and I don't know if you've ever taken a class in Philosophy and Physics but there is nothing fun about it. Anyways im gone for a few hours.
Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm actually quite fond of philosophy and physics(especially temporal physics), and am quite fond of discussing them whenever possible. You have to know that whenever your dealing with a character like Extant, temporal physics are going to be brought into play. You can't just say he's going to win in a battle like this because he can change time, and expect that to be the end of it. Because all these other factors come into play. There's no reason to get upset about it, it's part of the character. Anyway, I'm not discussing Extant and HOM Wanda, I'm discussing a contest between Reality and Time.
And this is why I kept him out of the fourm until recently and why I regret making that respect thread.
All we can go on to decide this is examples form the comics (Which we should anyways. since this is a comics thread), because our own intellects can't truly grasp the nature of how time and space work. It's all theory to us.
After Crisis happened the universe was remade. But Flash was able to travel back to a point before that happened. It's the chicken and the egg theory, regardless of which came first, you can't have one without the other.
Matter cannot be created nor destoryed, it merely changes form. It has to come from somewhere.
Originally posted by Ext@nt
And this is why I kept him out of the fourm until recently and why I regret making that respect thread.All we can go on to decide this is examples form the comics (Which we should anyways. since this is a comics thread), because our own intellects can't truly grasp the nature of how time and space work. It's all theory to us.
After Crisis happened the universe was remade. But Flash was able to travel back to a point before that happened. It's the chicken and the egg theory, regardless of which came first, you can't have one without the other.
Matter cannot be created nor destoryed, it merely changes form. It has to come from somewhere.
Also, with the whole matter/energy thing, that exist because of the laws of physics, my whole point is that with absolute control over reality, NO laws of physics apply(including temopal physics), because you are able to rewrite them at will.
