Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why can't you understand that God's foreknowledge is irrelevant? I didn't have to write this many lucid posts explaining this to Grand_Moff_Gav and yet he got it (I apologize if that offends you).
It isn't irrelevant, as God is the creator of Eve and God is [supposedly] omnicient.
What offends me is your avoidance of question, when I directly answer each of yours. Care to answer my hypothetical question that I have repeatedly asked you?
Originally posted by Robtard
Nice, I see you're resorting to troll tactics, you won't make me angry though, anyhow, care to answer my hypothetical question now? [b]Please either answer it or just state "no, I won't answer". [/B]
I am not resorting to troll tactics. I have already told you that you have failed to prove that Adam and Eve had no choice (this is the quesition you have not answered). But Grand_Moff_Gave got it instantly.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I am not resorting to troll tactics. I have already told you that you have failed to prove that Adam and Eve had no choice (this is the quesition you have not answered). But Grand_Moff_Gave got it instantly.
LOL.
Originally posted by Robtard
Regardless if she had free will and she could have taken a million different choices, that fact that when God created her, God already knew what she would do, means it was her destiny to fail and God would have known this before, during and after her creation. Unless, God isn't omnicient. No other way around that.
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Originally posted by Robtard
Nice, I see you're resorting to troll tactics, you won't make me angry though, anyhow, care to answer my hypothetical question now? Please either answer it or just state "no, I won't answer".
Originally posted by Robtard
Hypothetical question: If you somehow (be it science, magic or divine intervention etc.) knew with 100% certainty that your child would grow up to be the worlds worst serial killer, would you not be, at least in part, guilty of those future deaths your child would cause if you didn't take measures to change him before they happened?
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveWhy can't you understand the simple concept, if God knows all he would know ALL. Every action and reaction that Adam & Eve would ever do in their whole life even before he created her, which she "choose" something is irrelevant because God already knew the choice.
Why can't you understand that God's foreknowledge is irrelevant? I didn't have to write this many lucid posts explaining this to Grand_Moff_Gav and yet he got it (I apologize if that offends you).
Let say you have a time machine and you go forward in time and see that they kid that you will have in a year will grow up to become the next Hitler. If you stay in the future you will not have the kid and he will not be born but if you go back you will loose all knowledge that you have gain and events will unfold as you have seen. If that person goes back they are responsible for creating the next Hitler because they had absolute knowledge of the events to come. This is the same with Adam and Eve, God already knew that Adam and Eve would sin and that they would fail.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You have [B]not proven to me that Adam and Eve had no choice. At least Grand_Moff_Gav can understand what I am saying. [/B]
That is because Grand_Moff_Gav understands the transcendent nature of God, however, you do not. You still don't know how to get out of this trap, do you?
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
For an action to be foreknown, it mus be determined.
Therefore:
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
If Eve can choose to do something contrary to what God knows that she will do, then God is not omniscient.If Eve cannot choose to do something contrary to what God knows that she will do, then Eve does not have free will.
Originally posted by Robtard
I've said that to him repeatedly and I've used different angles and examples, he either refuses to acknowledge, and/or avoids questions he knows would show his faulty logic.
You construe my refusal to continue this discussion as refusing to acknowledge or avoidance on my part, but the reality is that you are unable to see that you have failed to prove that Adam and Eve had no choice. I have gone to great lengths to show you your error. Why is it that Grand_Moff_Gav was able to explain my point with precision?
You have not used different angles. Your angle invariable cites the foreknowledge of God ad nauseam. Again, I will not discuss this issue with you until you prove how Adam and Eve had no choice without mentioning God's omniscience.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You construe my refusal to continue this discussion as refusing to acknowledge or avoidance on my part, but the reality is that you are unable to see that you have failed to prove that Adam and Eve had no choice. I have gone to great lengths to show you your error. Why is it that Grand_Moff_Gav was able to explain my point with precision?You have not used different angles. Your angle invariable cites the foreknowledge of God ad nauseam. Again, I will not discuss this issue with you until you prove how Adam and Eve had no choice [B]without mentioning God's omniscience
. [/B]
You avoid questions. Grand_Mov_Gav uses your same faulty logic.
I have repeatedly answered your questions and God's roll as creator and being omniscient is relevant, regardless of how you dance around those two points.
You're not here to debate, you're here to preach, while refusing to acknowledge anything that goes against your narrow biased views.
Here, I'll prove it, will you finally answer my hypothetical question, please?
Originally posted by Robtard
You avoid questions. Grand_Mov_Gav uses your same faulty logic.I have repeatedly answered your questions and God's roll as creator and being omniscient is relevant, regardless of how you dance around those two points.
You're not here to debate, you're here to preach, while refusing to acknowledge anything that goes against your narrow biased views.
I will not answer any other of your questions until we deal with this issue first. I have been waiting and waiting for you to prove that Adam and Eve did not have a choice. Instead, you have moved on to other questions that I am not willing to move on to until this one is resolved. Dance, avoid, refuse--none of those words characterize my replies to any of your posts. I have stood firm and flat-footed against every one of your posts but you have failed to establish your argument that Adam and Eve had no choice.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I will not answer any other of your questions until we deal with this issue first. I have been waiting and waiting for you to prove that Adam and Eve did not have a choice. Instead, you have moved on to other questions that I am not willing to move on to until this one is resolved. Dance, avoid, refuse--none of those words characterize my replies to any of your posts. I have stood firm and flat-footed against every one of your posts but you have failed to establish your argument that Adam and Eve had no choice.
Easy to answer: Adam and Eve are a myth and did not live in the real world.
Originally posted by Robtard
You fail to see that God as both the creator of Eve and having knowledge that she would fail before, during and after her creation that Eve could not have done anything different, she was created to fail.If God knew with 100% certainty that she would disobey his command before he created her, why would he make a faulty product and then punish her for doing what God already knew she would do?
Hypothetical question: If your somehow (be it science, magic or divine intervention etc.) knew with 100% certainty that your child would grow up to be th worlds worst serial killer, would you not be, at least in part, guilty of those future deaths your child would cause if you didn't take measures to change him before they happened?
for HEAVEN'S sake dont even try. i beat his ass into the ground with this argument{among others} in multiple forums that must have gone onwithout stopping for around 40 pages or sumthing. in the end he gave up and said even he had his limits and that maybe we should not converse anymore. oddly enough after that, he stopped replying to any of my posts. and now hes started anew. forgetting all the failure in his argument. thats what he does, bring up an argument, toy with it until the end of people's patience. then ignore their replies for a while. coming back like a phoenix from the ashes{ or a feceman from the sewage treatmen plant in this case[no offence to the person with that real name]} and beginning anew, forgetting all things and using the same arguments. only with more resolve/word twisting.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Easy to answer: Adam and Eve are a myth and did not live in the real world.
Quick to claim slow to prove. All I ask you to do is prove that they did not exist. If you cannot prove a negative (which they clearly are not) then why are you so quick to deny the existence of someone who doesn't exist?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Quick to claim slow to prove. All I ask you to do is prove that they did not exist. If you cannot prove a negative (which they clearly are not) then why are you so quick to deny the existence of someone who doesn't exist?
first make up YOUR mind about what they are a negetive or not. and dont invite others into these senseless riddles of going from one to the other. pick one and stick to it. it shud be easy for u. ur a man of faith after all. if its a negertive and negetives can not be proven than ADMIT that its a negetive. only then can you criticise the other for trying to prove a negetive. if they are NOT a negetive, dont criticise people for trying to prove or disprove them. just for the record, yours is an argument in which they ARE a negetive. its a moulding of an argument from ignorance and an argument from negetive evidence. both are logicall fallacies.