Originally posted by Mr Master
Also Wanda plucked 16,000,000 Souls out of Death's Realm, this leans towards Wanda being beyond DeathHere Wanda summons 16 Million Souls to forfill her wishes
Excalibur right? Wanda did that? I thought it was the mutant Wicked?
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Excalibur right? Wanda did that? I thought it was the mutant Wicked?
That's freakin wierd,
Why is Magneto calling her his daughter?
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Excalibur right? Wanda did that? I thought it was the mutant Wicked?
Ok,
the answer to the mystery
After Magneto kidnapped Wanda he tells Xavier how he escaped with her,
"I generated a Pocket Wormhole" (since when can he do that?)
"Wormholes? Where'd he get the Strength to generate Wormholes" ... "much LESS the Knowledge"
Beast says he should be able to do that but never has, that's obvious, if he had Universal range he could crack the Universe in half, the force of Magnetism is a fundamental of the Universe.
In other words Wanda increased his Power, just like she did Xavier's
Now that said,
Was Magneto implying that Wicked's abilities are a result of Wanda, or did Wanda create wicked all together?
This "Wicked" character was non existent until after the Genosha incident, incidentally or conveniently as Wanda pops up so does Wicked.
"My Daughter needs you, for the sake of those Millions of Souls"
That's why I hate bios and handbooks, rarely are they 100% satisfactory.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Ok,the answer to the mystery
After Magneto kidnapped Wanda he tells Xavier how he escaped with her,
"I generated a Pocket Wormhole" (since when can he do that?)
"Wormholes? Where'd he get the Strength to generate Wormholes" ... "much LESS the Knowledge"
Beast says he should be able to do that but never has, that's obvious, if he had Universal range he could crack the Universe in half, the force of Magnetism is a fundamental of the Universe.
In other words Wanda increased his Power, just like she did Xavier's
Now that said,
Was Magneto implying that Wicked's abilities are a result of Wanda, or did Wanda create wicked all together?
This "Wicked" character was non existent until after the Genosha incident, incidentally or conveniently as Wanda pops up so does Wicked.
That's why I hate bios and handbooks, rarely are they 100% satisfactory.
Hmm...Wicked existed before the Wanda thing...her first appearance was in Excalibur #1 Vol #2...the Wanda thing takes place in Vol #3
I have the Excalibur comic somewhere...be right back..I'll go look at it....
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Hmm...Wicked existed before the Wanda thing...her first appearance was in Excalibur #1 Vol #2...the Wanda thing takes place in Vol #3I have the Excalibur comic somewhere...be right back..I'll go look at it....
Don't bother, I saw that she did exist, I was speculating on why Magneto said,
"My Daughter needs you, for the sake of those Million of Souls"
Wicked's Feat, has something to do with Wanda.
My guess is, that Wicked was only able to summon 16 Million souls because Wanda boosted her power, like she did with Magneto's and Xavier's.
Damn only saw your post now...meh...I looked through it now might as well post a few things....
I don't know...from what I got from reading it again...there is a possibility that Wanda was boosting their power....however Xaviers theory is paralleled with Dark Beasts theory....
Well firstly...here
Book, Broadband and Dark Beast go to Magnetos house so they can tell Xavier that Callisto and the others went to go and help Husk and Angel in the previous issue.
Here Magneto ignores them...for once he puts his Child before his duty....he doesn't pass the message onto Xavier and tells Charles to continue trying to help Wanda...the Souls Wicked manifest reflect this gesture...the many souls of the 16 million mutants that lost their lives in Genosha look at Magneto as if he's betrayed them...and his entire race...but he looks back...and his deepest fears confirm that the greatest threat to mutant kind is in his house....that makes him content with his descision....there's nothing that really implies this is Wandas doing...
Here Magneto explains how he felt when he saw the Avengers mansion in shambles....
Now it is possible that Wanda boosted his power...but it's also plausable as suggested by Dark Beast that Magneto did the Wormhole thing by himself...as parents do extraordinary things when their children are in danger... like the Kitty Pryde thing in AXM(See Dark Beast explanation below)
Continued in the next post...
The conflict in Magnetos soul has held him back from using his powers to the fullest...when he heard of Wandas situation the conflict ended..and he was able to tap into his power for that moment.
He then goes on to suggest that a Wanda/Magneto combo would mean hell for the world and Callisto reassures everyone it won't come to that...
Now Xaviers theory....he says ever since he moved to Genosha he's been gaining strength....now that could mean two things...he's been gaining strength because of Wanda....but the problem with that is that Xavier moved to Genosha before Wanda was ever brought there....so it could also mean that he was strengthened mentally because of the loss of 16 million mutants....this loss has made him a new man....
Here Strange helps Xavier cope with his inner demons.
They're conclusion that "some hold on to guilt far to often" which kind of solidifies Dark Beasts theory...about Magneto and his inner conflict...then they end their conversation on an optimistic note the whole power of love thing....
I don't think Wanda had much to do in that particular situation....maybe I'm interpreting it wrong....but it just doesn't seem to add up..
I forgot to add that the:
"Nothing, old friend. It's...nothing. My daughter needs you Charles. For the sake of those millions who died here, for the sake of mutants living today, for their generations unborn...go on with your work. I won't disturb you any futher"
Comment seemed like he was weighing out the greater evil(Plus he can kill two birds with one stone....by choosing her he puts his Child first and indirectly saves mutant kind)...his daughter is unstable an could pose a great threat to mutant kind...so for those millions who died(They can rest assured that their race is safe), for those still alive(They can rest easy that the threat is being dealt with immediately) and for those future Generations to come(The threat will be neutralised quickly if we act fast enough)...
As far as I can tell he just seems to be weighing out the gravity of both situations and assessing which is worse....again I could be wrong with my interpretation.
Something just hit me...I'm not sure about this but didn't Wicked bring back all 16million souls in Son of M when Pietro repowered her?...This is after the whole Wanda ordeal...so this also suggests that Wanda had nothing to do with the 16 million souls...
I'll have to check this and get back to you tommorrow....I need to get some sleep and study for an exam tommorrow....😄
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
They're conclusion that "some hold on to guilt far to often" which kind of solidifies Dark Beasts theory...about Magneto and his inner conflict...then they end their conversation on an optimistic note the whole power of love thing....I don't think Wanda had much to do in that particular situation....maybe I'm interpreting it wrong....but it just doesn't seem to add up..
X, you were thorough I'll give you that,
But Without a doubt Wanda was increasing their Power,
"Magneto doing desperate things that lead upto him creating Wormholes because of fatherly love is speculation and unheard of,
Xavier becoming a better man leads to his Power increase is also speculaiton and unheard of.
When the bottomline is:
"the man I left just days ago did NOT have such Power"
I still say the reason Magneto says,
"you have to help my Daughter, for the SAKE of those Millions of SOULS"
That's not speculation, that's plain english.
Wanda was involved in the Wicked Feat, she boosted her Power to dangerous levels.
The Beast incident, he's just explaning to them how Magnetism is one of the fundamental forces of Nature
The key here is, "WHY He HASN'T done More of it in the Past"
I'll tell ya WHY Hank, because he COULDN'T!
Wanda boosted his powers, quite simple to realize when Magneto has NEVER in his history created a Wormhole.
Just like she had Genis-Vell Blinking the Universe In and Out of existence.
Originally posted by Mr Master
X, you went nuts dude, 😂Without a doubt Wanda was increasing their Power,
"Magneto doing desperate things that lead upto him creating Wormholes because of fatherly love is speculation and unheard of,
Xavier becoming a better man leads to his Power increase is also speculaiton and unheard of.
When the bottomline is:
"the man I left just days ago did NOT have such Power"
I still say the reason Magneto says,
"you have to help my Daughter, for the SAKE of those Millions of SOULS"
That's not speculation, that's plain english.
Wanda was involved in the Wicked Feat, she boosted her Power to dangerous levels.
The Beast incident, he's just explaning to them how Magnetism is one of the fundamental forces of Nature
The key here is, "WHY He HASN'T done More of it in the Past"
I'll tell ya WHY Hank, because he COULDN'T!
Wanda boosted his powers, quite simple to realize when Magneto has NEVER in his history created a Wormhole.
Just like she had Genis-Vell Blinking the Universe In and Out of existence.
😄 I could be losing my marbles....but like I said my intepretation could be wrong....and I agree D Beasts theory about Magnetos conflict is just speculation as is Xaviers... however I still don't understand what you mean when you say:
"you have to help my Daughter, for the SAKE of those Millions of SOULS"
The way I interpreted it is that he's telling Xavier to help his daughter...because she is a threat to mutant kind....how did you come to the conclusion that Wanda boosted her powers? 😕
Xavier becoming a better man leads to his Power increase is also speculaiton and unheard of.
Xavier said it himself though...ever since he moved to Genosha he's been feeling stronger...we know that Xavier moved to Genosha before Wanda was brought there so how would you explain that?
In this scan Beast speculates why...Magneto hasn't demonstrated that kind of power before:
"the man I left just days ago did NOT have such Power"
Dark Beasts explanation....
http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excaliburv3112005page09ok1.jpg
"the man I left just days ago did NOT have such Power"
Dark Beast seems to think it's because of Magnetos mental state of mind.
BTW Scratch that last post Wicked didn't do that in Son of M...just checked
Just want to reiterate that my interpretation could be wrong....but it's still plausable...
Just like she had Genis-Vell Blinking the Universe In and Out of existence.
In no way am I saying your intepretation is wrong...I'm just suggesting that they're many ways to intepret it.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Only if Wanda is not indestructible, when the Universe blew up in her face, no one can say she resisted that explosion or she was unaffected because it was her doing the blowingAnd I think she's definitely immortal, or simply can't be killed.
most of the other stuff we've gone over. aside from the arrow though, and her own power destroying/recreating the universe, what other efforts to kill her did she resist?
she's a mutant. a powerful mutant. without a mind to work her powers she is neither and quite dead. no way i can accept that jean couldn't kill her if she was capable of attacking first and wiping out wanda's mind. even if she didn't kill her but just made her a non-mutant, wanda shouldn't logically (without powers) be able to counter the attack.
basically, i still think phoenix could get in a first attack and wipe out wanda's mind making it impossible for her to access her powers. you . . . feel otherwise. 😄 meh, i suspect (because neither of us has hard evidence to nail things down 100% aside from our own interpretations and speculations) that we shall simply remain on opposing sides of the issue.
not like it's the first time. 😉
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I could be losing my marbles....but like I said my intepretation could be wrong....
No biggi, I been wrong, I'm probably wrong now.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
and I agree D Beasts theory about Magnetos conflict is just speculation as is Xaviers... however I still don't understand what you mean when you say:"you have to help my Daughter, for the SAKE of those Millions of SOULS"
The way I interpreted it is that he's telling Xavier to help his daughter...because she is a threat to mutant kind....how did you come to the conclusion that Wanda boosted her powers?
Go through every issue of version 2, you'll find Wicked never summoned so many Souls like when Magneto said that.
You really only have to look at the artistic representation, why would Wicked be drawn plucking Millions of Souls right as Magneto says,
"you have to help my Daughter, for the SAKE of those Millions of SOULS"...
Wanda had something to do with that.
Why do I believe she boosted her powers, because she boosted Xavier's and Magneto's.
The Beast philosophizing about Magneto's abilities means nothing, the fact is Magneto has NEVER shown Power on that scale, and Xavier's has NEVER projected his Astral Self across the Globe.
Wanda increased and decreased many different character's powers, it's not surprising at all she did the same with Wicked.
Wanda gave Genis the ability to BLINK the Universe In and Out of existence, hello...what's giving Wicked the ability to summon more Souls than usual compared to that.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Xavier said it himself though...ever since he moved to Genosha he's been feeling stronger...we know that Xavier moved to Genosha before Wanda was brought there so how would you explain that?
Did you notice what he says immediately after he says, "ever since I moved to Genosha, I've been gaining Strength, I'm suspecting that isn't a coincidence anymore" (AND then he mentions Wanda's name)
"SIX Months I been training Wanda"
SIX Months, he points this out to let us know it's Wanda's fault, "Not a coincidence anymore" (something is increasing his power) and you can't give me the Beast explanation on this one.
So it must be a Coincidence that Xavier's Power is increasing as is Magneto's?
We both know that's a stretch, the easier and more logical reason is, Wanda is increasing both of their powers.
In the first few issues of version 2, Xavier can barely use his powers
"My Telepathy's grown too Soft"
So he was definitely not more powerful from the get.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Dark Beasts explanation....
I read it, it's not satisfying.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Dark Beast seems to think it's because of Magnetos mental state of mind.
I know, but the fact that one of the main events that resonated through out HOM was Wanda increasing, decreasing or completely negating others' Powers, coincides with a sudden enhancement of Xavier's and Magus's Powers.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Just want to reiterate that my interpretation could be wrong....but it's still plausable...
The grass isn't any greener over on this side niether.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
In no way am I saying your intepretation is wrong...I'm just suggesting that they're many ways to intepret it.
I agree.
But it's indisputable, that Wanda was messing with everyones Powers.
And since Magneto nor Xavier have ever shown this ability to increase their power due to emotional status and Wanda was depicted On Panel fluctuating the Power of whomever,
I have to go with Wanda being the culprit of these power fluctuations.
Originally posted by Mr Master
No biggi, I been wrong, I'm probably wrong now.Go through every issue of version 2, you'll find Wicked never summoned so many Souls like when Magneto said that.
You really only have to look at the artistic representation, why would Wicked be drawn plucking Millions of Souls right as Magneto says,
"you have to help my Daughter, for the SAKE of those Millions of SOULS"...Wanda had something to do with that.
Why do I believe she boosted her powers, because she boosted Xavier's and Magneto's.The Beast philosophizing about Magneto's abilities means nothing, the fact is Magneto has NEVER shown Power on that scale, and Xavier's has NEVER projected his Astral Self across the Globe.
Wanda increased and decreased many different character's powers, it's not surprising at all she did the same with Wicked.
Wanda gave Genis the ability to BLINK the Universe In and Out of existence, hello...what's giving Wicked the ability to summon more Souls than usual compared to that.
Did you notice what he says immediately after he says, "ever since I moved to Genosha, I've been gaining Strength, I'm suspecting that isn't a coincidence anymore" (AND then he mentions Wanda's name)
"SIX Months I been training Wanda"
SIX Months, he points this out to let us know it's Wanda's fault, "Not a coincidence anymore" (something is increasing his power) and you can't give me the Beast explanation on this one.
So it must be a Coincidence that Xavier's Power is increasing as is Magneto's?
We both know that's a stretch, the easier and more logical reason is, Wanda is increasing both of their powers.
In the first few issues of version 2, Xavier can barely use his powers
"My Telepathy's grown too Soft"So he was definitely not more powerful from the get.
I read it, it's not satisfying.
I know, but the fact that one of the main events that resonated through out HOM was Wanda increasing, decreasing or completely negating others' Powers, coincides with a sudden enhancement of Xavier's and Magus's Powers.
The grass isn't any greener over on this side niether.
I agree.
But it's indisputable, that Wanda was messing with everyones Powers.
And since Magneto nor Xavier have ever shown this ability to increase their power due to emotional status and Wanda was depicted On Panel fluctuating the Power of whomever,
I have to go with Wanda being the culprit of these power fluctuations.
Ah cool...I can live with that... 😄
I forgot to add this one thing...just in case people think we're selling Xavier short..Xavier has actually astral projected from Genosha to the XIOHL Academy before unaided....it was in X-treme X-Men when he first moved to Genosha to help out....after Novas attack...the only problem with the feat is the series is written by ...Claremont...and well...I hate Claremont....I only got a few issues cause Emma Frost appeared in them. I'll post the scans when I get back...it could just be a continuity error cause X-treme X-Men was utter crap.
There's like four scans missing from here..but Xavier has astral projected from one of the Skrulls Moons to the Skrull planet to try and reason with Galactus. I can scan the rest when I get home....
http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=05lh7.jpg
Lastly my personal fav...Xavier unaided projects himself from Earth onto Avalon...breaks through Exodus' psychic static for only a few moments(In space)
That was for all who thought we were selling Xaviers telepathy short....(I'll scan the rest when I get home)
Okay,
Let me try this one more time,
Wanda's power extened further then Phoenix's, It has a wider and more powerful range of attack. When the Chaoswave is active Wanda it seems is immortal since she can reverese any attack. Given this she would erase the phoenix dispite the consequences to the universe.
Yeah but the Fanboys claim suicide,
But I have a hole in your theory, why would she allow herself to die just to go into the future and help scott deal with his grief over her death and kill sublime.
Why wouldn't she just stay in the past, and spare scott the greif and prevent sublime from ever infecting the future in the first place?
I don't think it was suicide, I think he beat her she just had to deal with the fall out.
