White Phoenix VS HOM Scarlet Witch

Originally posted by manorastroman
teetee. extant's right. considering that phoenix has been shown to have hosts in multiple universes, i'm not sure how anybody could claim that the [B]force is universal.

i'm with leo and newjak. [/B]

There's also many Wolverine's as well in many universes, that doesnt make them Multiversal.

And the Topic of THIS thread is WHo would win in a fight between Wanda and the Phoenix and everyone seems to agree its Wanda so the debate is over.

You ethier think one wins or the other, pick one.

Originally posted by Ext@nt
There's also many Wolverine's as well in many universes, that doesnt make them Multiversal.

And the Topic of THIS thread is WHo would win in a fight between Wanda and the Phoenix and everyone seems to agree its Wanda so the debate is over.

You ethier think one wins or the other, pick one.

😂

who's everyone, again? 😕

i said MAYBE the wave would have killed phoenix. that implies the obverse is also possible -- ie, MAYBE it would NOT have killed her.

i also said it doesn't matter if the wave WOULD have, or would NOT have, IF she had no control over it. and it's quite clear to 'everyone' ( 😄 ) that you have failed to repeatedly prove your claim that she could control it. (we don't count rants and repeatedly saying 'but she CAN control it!' as actual proof. 🙂 )

on the point of the battle itself though, how can you be so certain wanda could even activate her power before phoenix lobotimized her? even allowing for the chance wanda was capable of killing her, it STILL boils down then to who could get in the first attack, a universal/mulitversal(??) entity, or a mutant human? even allowing the possibility she could kill phoenix, i STILL don't like her chances of doing it before she's reduced to something on the order of a kumquat.

so by 'everyone', you must have meant 'everyone-except-leo-newjak-manora, right?

🙂

Wanda's power works instantainously, Phoenix's power does not.

So basically your trying to say you think Phoenix Wins, but you don;t want to say it outloud for fear of being called a fanboy?

We have a new one folks, A "closet" Phoenix Fanboy.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So what you're saying is that the Nullifier could have neutralize the Choas wave, but as a side-effect all the universes the Chaos wave have entered would have been destroyed as well.
So the Nullifier is above the Chaos wave after all.

Thx. 😄

The Celestial Nullifier did not and could not stop the Wave.

The Chaos Wave spills over to ther Realities, if you cut one of those Realities out of it's way, it can't continue and stops itself, then the Omni-verse repairs the damage.

Ok, time to shut down that boy.

Newjack you continue to compare me to GS and his antics because your totally clueless about the Excalibur and the Amulet of Right, I forgive you for being ignorant.

You requested proof of their Power, here it is chump. You associating me with the likes of GS is as insulting as me calling you CHUMP.

You said I was talking sh*t but CHUMPS talk alot of shit without knowing anything.

Get ready to apologize.

Extant, u just hate the phoenis force period. Wanda can certainly take Rachel down BUT there is no way on hell she is taking down the most powerful avatar of the phoenix force. Saying out loud "No more Jean" would not work because the phoenix force is the sum and substance of all creation. Certainly she is powerful, yes BUT she is not going to win this one. She is a very powerful mutant BUT the chaos wave itself is causing a multidimensional tear NOT HER. It's causing a domino affect through out all realities. Think of a pebble being thrown in a water. Despite it's size, it causes continous, radiating ripples.

This is Merlin with ONLY the Sword of Might (Excalibur)

Merlin and Roma begin a game of Chess and Multi-verse 616 is their Chess Board.

Notice there are many Chess Boards floating around them, EACH Board representing a Multi-verse

As Merlin and Roma moved their Chess Pieces, Reality is Altered accordingly

Even Mad Jim Jaspers, (the Omniversal threat) is just One of their Game Pieces

The Game continues

Merlin realizes he underestimated the determination of the Fury (a creature created by Jaspers 238)

Merlin says, "I've missed something, I, of all people"

Roma responds, "No one is infallible Father, sometimes I think a strong wind will blow you over"
Merlin replies, "Ah yes, but I MAKE the WINDS"

Roma says, "and that Father, did you make that"?

That's the Fury.

As the Fury is about to kill Linda Mcquillan (Captain UK) in Multi-verse 616.

Merlin protects her, by covering the Chess piece with his hands

As you can see, his hands get burned by the Fury (a creature that killed every Super hero in the 238 Universe within TWO Hours)

The Fury is in disbelief that Linda survived

Roma begins to have a vision, Jaspers was not supposed to be part of this Game she thinks, but Merlin set it up like that (later we learn he's training her for her future position as Omniversal Guardian), and if a Multi-verse has to DIE in order to prepare her properly, so be it.

"But if this Game is Lost, I see a Universe eaten alive by Chaos, and ANOTHER Universe, and ANOTHER, like Dominos, Tumbling...I see the Future"

continues in the next post...

continues...

Roma wants to stop the Game, "with So much at stake (the 616 Multi-verse) your Play is erratic" she tells Merlin.

Merlin could care less though, her training is more important than ONE Multi-verse, when there's an Infinite number of Multi-verses to Protect.

Merlin get angry at Roma for wanting to stop the Game

but Roma doesn't understand Merlin's motives completely yet

And so the Game proceeds

Merlin here begins to focus on Captain Britain, for he too is in this dangerous training and doesn't even know it.

Merlin says, "I stretched your sanity to the breaking point to prepare you for a Universe (238) Reduced to Idiocy" the Omniversal Tribune Erased 238.

Merlin says about Cap. Britain, "I sent you to a lesser menace (Jaspers 238) and you were Killed"

"Merlin says, "You cannot fail, this version of Japers is too powerful, too dangerous"

They had to destroy the entire 238 Universe in order to kill 238 Jaspers, but 616 Jaspers is "NOT so easily contained, and if he's not stopped, the OMNI-VERSE will fall into Chaos, and a NEW GOD shall play dice with Matter"

Mad Jim jaspers 616, with FULL control of the 616 Universe

continues in the next post...

continues...

Roma says, "The Game's disintegrating, but the MULTI-VERSE DEPENDS upon the GAME"

Roma thinks they've lost the 616 Multi-verse, but actually Merlin knew Jaspers would lose to the Fury, so he fakes his death and allows Roma to finish the rest.

Roma says, "It's over, the Pieces must be gathered up" (Captain Britain, Saturnyne and Captain UK)


Again, what happens on Merlin and Roma's Chess board, happens in Reality.

Roma says, "the terror that threatened the Omni-verse is destroyed"

Roma gives Captain Britain, Captain UK and Saturnyne the credit

Now that Merlin is supposedly dead, Roma becomes the Omni-versal Guardian

"My hand guides the Omni-verse Now, Unlike my Father, I have no desire to shape the destiny of men"

continues in the next post...

continues...

Captain Britain acquires the Sword of Might (Excalibur)

Roma says, "to wield Excalibur is to Hold the HAND of GOD itself"

Excalibur, One of Two Talismen of Power, the other being the Amulet of Right, TOGETHER, their Power could sunder the Omni-verse

Is that everything

Recap

Merlin and Roma are playing Chess with the MULTI-VERSE and Merlin ONLY has EXCALIBUR at this point.

Merlin had Multi-verses just hovering around his Realm, with absolute control over ALL of them.

So you see silly, being your "Universal protector" like a Quasar is a whole different story, than being Guardian of the Omni-verse.

When has Quasar manipulated the Universe?

Or in Merlin's case the Multi-verse? With a bunch of Multi-verses at his disposal.

Begone my child.

As for the Power of the Chaos Wave.

I have NEVER said Wanda is the most powerful being in Marvel, or even the Second or the Third,

Infact I have her in 9th place on my hierarchy.

But a depiction was given On Panel of just HOW powerful the Wave is.

Besides it being able to collapse the Omni-verse.

When Meggan harnessed the Power of the BEYOND (True Beyonders) to attempt to stop the Wave, she was overwhelmed in seconds.

"Only She can claim the Pan-Dimensional Power of the Beyond for her own"

"Knows that by her side, ALL things are possible"

"Until He sees what she's up against"

Meggan (with the Power of the Beyonders) manages to Hold the Chaos Wave for a short while.

The Omni-verse itself Repaired the damage the Wave had caused once the Wave was sealed behind the breach.

"the Cosmos is Healing itself before our very eyes"

Even with the Power of the BEYOND, Meggan didn't last.

Now I don't know if you know this but, a TINY BIT of Power from the BEYOND is enough to collapse a Multi-verse, as POST Molecule Man nearly did.

"Minute bits of of their Energy" from the Beyonders, created Post-retcon Molecule Man & Post-retcon Beyonder.

"to rend the Life Force of such a being as the Beyonder"

"Havoc unthinkable would be wrecked across Multiversal Cosmography"

Kubik BEGS for the life of the Beyonder and the Multi-verse
[/B][/QUOTE]

Originally posted by Mr Master
Recap

Merlin and Roma are playing Chess with the MULTI-VERSE and Merlin ONLY has EXCALIBUR at this point.

Merlin had Multi-verses just hovering around his Realm, with absolute control over ALL of them.

So you see silly, being your "Universal protector" like a Quasar is a whole different story, than being Guardian of the Omni-verse.

When has Quasar manipulated the Universe?

Or in Merlin's case the Multi-verse? With a bunch of Multi-verses at his disposal.

Begone my child.

well thats impressive but then again not enough for me to apologize.

Sorry but as you put it simply like the Phoenix holding the Universe in her hands simple reprsentations aren't enough and apprantly al he did in it was move things around. He never shows any actual control of the realms themselves. In fact in on of your scans does it ever claim they are actual Multiverses Roma once says if we loose here we loose The Multiverse and that is what your using to base the chess boards equating Multiverses but it is never stated and in fact these events seem to takeplace mostly in one singular Universe.

Despite the fact that pretty much ruins everything you stated right there I'll address some other things.

First you claim that someone with both items can completely recreate and control the Omniverse yet the best thing said is it can sunder the Omniverse pretty good but still vague.

GS said that the Phoenix has the power to recreate everything based on a saying that the Phoenix the the begining and end of all things.

Of course this continues throughout your post as simple hyperbole stuff. To weild the sword is to weild the hand of God but what exactly on panel wise has the this done have they created and destroyed Multiverses or even Universes on a whim I didn't think so.

As to Merlin's control over these events. even that seems rather limited for the most part. He doesn't seem to have total control over everything. In fact his control seems limited to simply moving people around. In fact when he blocks the Furry's attacks his hand gets burned which doesn't imply vast control because if he was at the level you suggest he would have simply willed the attack to stop if he wanted.

Basically he did minor things and to be honest Phoenix's future alterantion is a better feat in my opinion.

Basically both were looking through representations of events Jean the Universe Merlin Universe/possible Multiverse(Once again it never actually suggests it is in your scans maybe you forgot to put that one in)

And if you claim Phoenix is Univesal because of that then Merlin must also be Universal or just Multiversal not Omniversal.

So what was that about child begone

Perhaps it should say Mr. M be exoricsed of GS
because once again your making loose connections and using sayins and phrases much like GS did with the Phoenix without actual concrete feats to base the Omniversal power gauge on this. 😉

Scarlet Witch never was depicted having control of the Wave, but it most certainly came from her.

Roma says, "a trans-temporal Tsunami. ORIGINATING from Earth 616"

Wanda's magic is Chaos Magic .... uhh Chaos Wave, sounds familiar.

Originally posted by Mr Master
As for the Power of the Chaos Wave.

I have NEVER said Wanda is the most powerful being in Marvel, or even the Second or the Third,

Infact I have her in 9th place on my hierarchy.

But a depiction was given On Panel of just HOW powerful the Wave is.

Besides it being able to collapse the Omni-verse.

When Meggan harnessed the Power of the BEYOND (True Beyonders) to attempt to stop the Wave, she was overwhelmed in seconds.

"Only She can claim the Pan-Dimensional Power of the Beyond for her own"

"Knows that by her side, ALL things are possible"

"Until He sees what she's up against"

Meggan (with the Power of the Beyonders) manages to Hold the Chaos Wave for a short while.

The Omni-verse itself Repaired the damage the Wave had caused once the Wave was sealed behind the breach.

"the Cosmos is Healing itself before our very eyes"

Even with the Power of the BEYOND, Meggan didn't last.

Now I don't know if you know this but, a TINY BIT of Power from the BEYOND is enough to collapse a Multi-verse, as POST Molecule Man nearly did.

"Minute bits of of their Energy" from the Beyonders, created Post-retcon Molecule Man & Post-retcon Beyonder.

"to rend the Life Force of such a being as the Beyonder"

"Havoc unthinkable would be wrecked across Multiversal Cosmography"

Kubik BEGS for the life of the Beyonder and the Multi-verse

Next Kubik never says that this power is strong enough to actually uttlery destroy a Multiverse he claims it is enough to wreak havoc across a Multiversal Cosmology there is a big difference there.

To imply wreaking havoc and utterly destroying is completely different.

Heck Galactus has the potential to wreak havoc across many Universes

Originally posted by newjak86
Sorry but as you put it simply like the Phoenix holding the Universe in her hands simple reprsentations aren't enough and apprantly al he did in it was move things around. He never shows any actual control of the realms themselves. In fact in on of your scans does it ever claim they are actual Multiverses Roma once says if we loose here we loose The Multiverse and that is what your using to base the chess boards equating Multiverses but it is never stated and in fact these events seem to takeplace mostly in one singular Universe.

Gibberish

Originally posted by newjak86
First you claim that someone with both items can completely recreate and control the Omniverse yet the best thing said is it can sunder the Omniverse pretty good but still vague.

"The Sword of Might united with the Amulet of Right, possesses the Power to REMAKE the Cosmos" (Omni-verse)

Originally posted by newjak86
Of course this continues throughout your post as simple hyperbole stuff. Toweild the sword is to weild the hand of God but what exactly on panel wise has the this done have they created and destroyed Multiverses or even Universes on a whim I didn't think so.to Merlin's control over these events. even that seems rather limited for the most part. He doesn't seem to have total control over everything. In fact his control seems limited to simply moving people around. In fact when he blocks the Furry's attacks his hand gets burned which doesn't imply vast control because if he was at the level you suggest he would have simply willed the attack to stop if he wanted
Basically he did minor things and to be honest Phoenix's future alterantion is a better feat in my opinion.
Basically both were looking through representations of events Jean the Universe Merlin Universe/possible Multiverse(Once again it never actually suggests it is in your scans maybe you forgot to put that one in)
And if you claim Phoenix is Univesal because of that then Merlin must also be Universal or just Multiversal not Omniversal.

firefirefireph

Ok, I can see now you've become intransigent and debating with you is pointless.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Gibberish

"The Sword of Might united with the Amulet of Right, possesses the Power to REMAKE the Cosmos" (Omni-verse)

firefirefireph

Ok, I can see now you've become intransigent and debating with you is pointless.

Once again though where are the actual feats of effecting the Omniverse you got all over GS not giving enough feats actually doing stuff.

Instead if being a hypocrite actually practice what preach instead of saying and walking to two different beats.

Originally posted by newjak86
Your doing it again because it only says Cosmos and nothing about Omniverse.

Dude, go READ COMICS, Captain Britain ONLY deals with OMNIVERSAL Threats.

I'm doing it again, what are you doing except for spewing your meaningless opinions without any proof.

Originally posted by newjak86
Next Kubik never says that this power is strong enough to actually uttlery destroy a Multiverse he claims it is enough to wreak havoc across a Multiversal Cosmology there is a big difference there.

WRONG!

Molecule Man and beyonder had done that already earlier in the issue

"from the Quantum to the Trans-Multiversal, Reality trembles as the forces unleashed reverberate through out creation"

Realize how ALL Reality is falling apart because of them, (both are POST-Retcon).
A WATCHER even goes blind in another Universe.

"I come to BEG for the SALVATION of my REALITY"

You wanna sugar coat it, whatever.

Originally posted by newjak86
To imply wreaking havoc and utterly destroying is completely different.

I said Collapse, but it seems your bent on being ontuse.

Originally posted by newjak86
So the Cosmos now equals the Omniverse you know how many times the word Cosmos has been described when decribing things alot.Once again though where are the actual feats of effecting the Omniverse you got all over GS not giving enough feats actually doing stuff.Instead if being a hypocrite actually practice what preach instead of saying and walking to two different beats.

When it comes to Captain Britain, yea my child, it means the OMNI-VERSE.

EVIDENCE has been pumped in your face and your in denial, because you feel stupid.

You were talking mad shit and now your smelling it, and it hurts.

So continue to go in circles, you've said nothing of consequence except to vainly attempt to knock the ON PANEL PROOF.