Everything COSMIC in Marvel - the Hierarchy, Battles, Feats, Q & A , scans galore!

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm convinced Wanda's Chaos Wave resurrected Jaspers,
so Jamie must've merged the resurrected Jaspers with Fury.

His bio doesn't state that specifically,
but it does state that he had some kind of involvement:

"He seems to be manipulating events,
possibly in connection with the recent re-appearance of another Reality Warper,
Mad Jim Jaspers"

Why did he do this?

I don't know, and the bio leaves us hanging:

"His true motivations remain unclear"

Yo master, you said that there was "Twenty years of On-Panel evidence" stating LT is second only to TOAA.

Care to show me those "Twenty Years"?

Kay. Thanks Mr. M.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Yo master, you said that there was "Twenty years of On-Panel evidence" stating LT is second only to TOAA.

Care to show me those "Twenty Years"?

The LT has been the most powerful being since he was created.
Toaa has been above him since its conceptualization. (right about 20 years)

The respect thread I made for him follows his career.

Visit it and enjoy.

This depiction took place (On Panel) in 1989 where it is stated. (18 years)

Thor doesn't mention Toaa, but who else can it be he's referring to?

Living Tribunal is said "his Power is Supreme in ALL the Multiverse"

Even I, the Son of the mighiest of gods of all,
find it impossible to conceive of such levels of power"

"Tis a humbling thought to consider how much greater still
the power of the Creator of all Universes must be
than that of all of his creations combined"

........................................................................................

Originally posted by Mr Master
If I had to include HOM in a current hierarchy:

The LT & Scathan (under the circumstance in GOTG#49 only)
The Alien Entity
Wanda
The BeyonderS
Edifice Rex
Jaspers 616 or Jamie (not too sure)

Would you even put her above the Beyonders when a fraction of there power can warp the entire Omniverse??? basically her feat.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Definitely.

If I had to include HOM in a current hierarchy:

The LT & Scathan (under the circumstance in GOTG#49 only)
The Alien Entity
Wanda
The BeyonderS
Edifice Rex

Her power alone collapsed/rebuilt the Omniverse -- The AE united with the Omniverse, [virtually becoming the 'new' IB, so to speak] -- But the AE needed Reed's help to do this, thus it is a shared feat, thus Wanda's solo feat seems more impressive.... imo.

What do you think?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Jaspers 616 or Jamie (not too sure)

Originally posted by Galan007
HoM Wanda should be above the Alien Entity, imo.

Her power alone collapsed/rebuilt the Omniverse -- The AE united with the Omniverse, [virtually becoming the 'new' IB, so to speak] -- But the AE needed Reed's help to do this, thus it is a shared feat, thus Wanda's solo feat seems more impressive.... imo.

What do you think?

This is all true, and I was giving this alot of thought.

In terms of absolute destruction I'd give it to the AE.
My reason is this,
the AE folded the Omniverse in one sweep, (one page)
while Wanda collapsed the Omniverse one Reality at a time (several issues)
but I'll submit consecutively.

I'll agree on the re-creation scenerio,
Wanda was definitely the winner there.
(Like you said, AE needed Reed's mind, Wanda softly uttered a phrase)

Thoughts?

(maybe we should make them equals,
but what is more relevant in a battle? Destruction or Creation?)

I'm leaning towards equals though,
because each dominated one spectrum of question.

Originally posted by Galan007
Jamie is slightly more powerful then 616 Jaspers was, imo --

Especially considering he merged Jaspers & Fury
(according to his bio, which doesn't state that specifically but strongly alludes to it)
I know he couldn't have revived Jaspers, too many bios credit Wanda with that.

Originally posted by Galan007
But we'll have to wait and see what the new JJ is capable of to be 100% positive.

👆 This is safest bet on that one.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is all true, and I was giving this alot of thought.

In terms of absolute destruction I'd give it to the AE.
My reason is this,
the AE folded the Omniverse in one sweep, (one page)
while Wanda collapsed the Omniverse one Reality at a time (several issues)
but I'll submit consecutively.

I'll agree on the re-creation scenerio,
Wanda was definitely the winner there.
(Like you said, AE needed Reed's mind, Wanda softly uttered a phrase)

Thoughts?

(maybe we should make them equals,
but what is more relevant in a battle? Destruction or Creation?)

I'm leaning towards equals though,
because each dominated one spectrum of question.

Now Wanda on the other hand, can collapse the Omniverse from any point in time she chooses, any way she chooses -- She can then go on to subsequently recreate the Omniverse without any external help..

She seems like the more versatile 'Omniversal-buster'. lol

For those reasons I still think Wanda (HoM) should be just above the AE

Originally posted by Mr Master
Especially considering he merged Jaspers & Fury
(according to his bio, which doesn't state that specifically but strongly alludes to it)
I know he couldn't have revived Jaspers, too many bios credit Wanda with that.

👆 This is safest bet on that one.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Would you even put her above the Beyonders when a fraction of there power can warp the entire Omniverse??? basically her feat.

It was once argued that feat should not count because it took place in a crossover,
but during the "Chaos Engine Trilogy" (hard to get ... but 100% Canon)
another Cube was about to destroy the Omniverse again.
And this one was a baby Cube
(not even fully developed in terms of just becoming a Cosmic Containment Unit)
That baby Cube created 3 UniverseS from scratch and stacked them on top of 616.
Roma interfered and it's a long story but the she succeded in saving Reality.

So you're right but,

Wanda crumbled the entire Omniverse,
and the BeyonderS are part of that Omniverse.

Which tells me,
they were remade along with everything else within the Omniverse.

I'm guessing they had to be spared when the Cube did the job considering it's their power.
....................................................................................

These are the only cats that have completely erased and re-created Marvel:

Sis-Neg in 72' (when Marvel was a single Universe)
The Cosmic Cube in 96' (acting alone first, then manipulated by X-O & Iron Man)
Genis & Entropy in March 03' (they erased the Prime Multiverse, which took out Mavel)
Thanos/THOTI in May 03' (started with 616 and then swept All of Reality)
AE in 06' (folded all of Marvel's History, then re-created it all with Reed's mind)
....................................................................................

But I must submit,
Marvel.com only recognizes 4 of them:

Sis-Neg - Genis/Entropy - Thanos - AE

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Marvel_Universe

But like I said, according to the "Chaos Engine Trilogy"
(which Marvel does recognize)
the Cube is capable of this feat. (So imo, it counts)

Originally posted by Galan007
Well you also need to remember that in order for the AE to collapse the Omniverse, he had to travel to a point in time before the original big bang first 'sparked' -- Had the AE not traveled back to this time, there is no real evidence that he could have folded the Omniverse the way he did.

That's what I thought at first, then I reviewed the issue again and realized,
the AE was folding Time & Space as he travelled back to that pre-Big Bang point.

(I know you seen these scans,
but we get a better persepective by analizing them closely)

All of a sudden, there's no more anything:

Then the true "Spark of Creation"is revealed: (the AE himself)

The first Big Bang explodes into the Marvel Universe once again:

....................................................................................

You know what's interesting about this,
that it seems like the AE and illogically Reed himself,
were always the Creators of the Marvel Universe.
(atleast after the previous Universe (IB) imploded)

If you read what Reed says, that's what this scenerio alludes to.

Also, the AE says, "I have to understand Myself" (and then pulls out the Spark)

Hmm ... interesting.

Originally posted by Galan007
Now Wanda on the other hand, can collapse the Omniverse from any point in time she chooses, any way she chooses --

I'm not too sure,
her Chaos Wave seems to only operate within the Walls of Causality (between Universes)
From there it can merge/mesh one Universe after the next
as it crashes the Walls that separate "Cause & Effect" in all Realities.

Originally posted by Galan007
She can then go on to subsequently recreate the Omniverse without any external help..

I agree, and this she performed withIN Reality with a phrase.
Although she was collapsing from within 58163 (Altered 616) as well,
just that the Chaos Wave in specific,
has to enter into the Walls of Causality to it's job.

I guess it doesn't really matter though,
after all, she managed to breach the 616 Wall with her initial global warp. 🙂
(from there, aall hell broke loose)
616 got Warped, Timelines got Warped, Alternate UniverseS got Warped,
and finally the Omniverse entire crumbled.

Gotta love her.

Originally posted by Galan007
She seems like the more versatile 'Omniversal-buster'. lol

It's a justified position.

Originally posted by Galan007
For those reasons I still think Wanda (HoM) should be just above the AE
Agreed.

I'd say Wanda is simply more powerful,
but the AE took out Marvel more efficiently.
(tell me what you think about the scans)

Mr. M, in case you didn't see it, I asked a question in the HOM Wanda Respect Thread. Wondering where that scan you just posted between Nightcrawler and Cyclopse is from.

Kay. Thanks for the answer.

What HOM issues and stuff do you have? I'm working on getting all the TPBs right now and wondering if you might need anything.

I'll also be picking up the HOM Avengers issue next month.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You know what's interesting about this,
that it seems like the AE and illogically Reed himself,
were always the Creators of the Marvel Universe.
(atleast after the previous Universe (IB) imploded)

If you read what Reed says, that's what this scenerio alludes to.

Also, the AE says, "I have to understand Myself" (and then pulls out the Spark)

Hmm ... interesting.

Now if you look at Wanda's feat, we know for sure that she is able to activate Omniversal destruction/creation on a whim, and from whatever 'reality' she happened to be in.

I'm not trying to demean the AE's feat at all... Just giving my view on things. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
I guess it doesn't really matter though,
after all, she managed to breach the 616 Wall with her initial global warp. 🙂
(from there, aall hell broke loose)
616 got Warped, Timelines got Warped, Alternate UniverseS got Warped,
and finally the Omniverse entire crumbled.

Gotta love her..

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'd say Wanda is simply more powerful,
but the AE took out Marvel more efficiently.

I don't think, that Wanda is above the True Beyonders...

After all, her biggest feat is creating something that MIGHT have been able to seriously damage the Omniverse.

On the other hand, a fraction of a cosmic cube, which is itself a fraction of the True Beyonder's power, remade omniverseS (No idea what that is supposed to mean) continualy, over and over again. Given that this is at the very least like 1/300th of the True Beyonder's power, how could they possibly be below Wanda?

Originally posted by Galan007
What I gathered from those scans, is that had the AE not gone back to the pre-big bang point in time, and released his energy there, he could not have accomplished the task of folding the 'complete' Omniverse -- And I haven't found any solid evidence suggesting otherwise.

Brother G, what?

In the scans the AE folded the Omniverse before he released his energy.

He was talking to Reed in the Void before the Big Bang. (before he released)
(he hadn't even taken out the Spark yet)

He only released his energy to Create.
And then Reed's mind helped him restructure Marvel.

Originally posted by Galan007
Now if you look at Wanda's feat, we know for sure that she is able to activate Omniversal destruction/creation on a whim, and from whatever 'reality' she happened to be in.

I believe Wanda was more powerful,
but, the AE defnitely folded Marvel in Two pages (first 3 scans)

Surely this is truth. (which is why I submit, AE swooped Marvel faster than Wanda)

But Wanda definitely depicted more diversity,
and, Wanda did in fact remake everything on her own.
(We shouldn't take away from the AE though, he used his own power to Remake,
but needed Reed's knowledge to Remake properly)

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm not trying to demean the AE's feat at all... Just giving my view on things.

Absolutely, and it's always constructive and thought provoking.

Originally posted by Galan007
The Chaos Wave = an excuse for the Marvel staff to do whatever the hell they want. lol

✅

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't really think so, but that's just MO.

Cool.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't think, that Wanda is above the True Beyonders...

After all, her biggest feat is creating something that MIGHT have been able to seriously damage the Omniverse.

Actually she completely tore the Omniverse to pieces,
She then Re-created the Omniverse with some differences with a phrase.

Originally posted by King Kandy
On the other hand, a fraction of a cosmic cube, which is itself a fraction of the True Beyonder's power, remade omniverseS (No idea what that is supposed to mean) continualy, over and over again. Given that this is at the very least like 1/300th of the True Beyonder's power,

True indeed.

I think they were referring to the Acclaim Omniverse & the Marvel Omniverse.

But really, we should ignore the Acclaim part of the deal,
and just stick to the Marvel significant part of the story, imo.

They kept the MArvel Cosmology on point, so I appreciate that in the arc,
unlike JLA/Avengers crossover who completely raped Marvel's Cosmology.

(Why I consider it garbage)

Originally posted by King Kandy
how could they possibly be below Wanda?

They were Warped along with the Omniverse.
(Everything was)

Originally posted by Mr Master
I believe Wanda was more powerful,
but, the AE defnitely folded Marvel in Two pages (first 3 scans)

Surely this is truth. (which is why I submit, AE swooped Marvel faster than Wanda)

I'm not arguing who warped the Omniverse faster, but rather, who did it better.

And imo, Wanda seems to be far more versatile all-around then the AE -- [Which is why I still think she should be above him]. 😛

Originally posted by Mr Master
But Wanda definitely depicted more diversity,
and, Wanda did in fact remake everything on her own.

Originally posted by Mr Master
(We shouldn't take away from the AE though, he used his own power to Remake,
but needed Reed's knowledge to Remake properly)

Wanda on the other hand = perfect control.

I used to think she was just an emo psycho-b*tch who didn't know what the hell she was doing... But I have since come to realize that she was in complete control pretty much the whole time, [as subconsciously or not, she was still controlling everything she unleashed].

Originally posted by Mr Master
Absolutely, and it's always constructive and thought provoking.

Originally posted by Galan007
For sure.

I'm not arguing who warped the Omniverse faster, but rather, who did it better.

But you do agree that the AE folded Marvel without releasing any energy.

I just wanted to clear that up.

In terms of better, I don't see a difference concerning a battle.

They can both collapse the Omniverse,
so the next step is, who can collapse it faster.

This would determine the winner based on a "speed blitz" type situation of godly proportions.

That is of course, considering that either of them can die.

Perhaps Wanda would just remain there looking at him asking,
"Why'd you do that?" 😂

Originally posted by Galan007
And imo, Wanda seems to be far more versatile all-around then the AE -- [Which is why I still think she should be above him].

I agree, I did say I fell Wanda is simply more powerful.
Because of her other abilities that the AE did not show.

Originally posted by Galan007
By the AE's own accord, he couldn't control the forces he unleashed... They were "beyond" him. That's why he needed Reed's help, [as you already know].

True. But now that he's merged with the Omniverse, it should bve a different story.

I mean, he now knows everything Reed knows and more,
cause he merged with the Future as well. (Reed wanted no part of that)

Originally posted by Galan007
Wanda on the other hand = perfect control.

I used to think she was just an emo psycho-b*tch who didn't know what the hell she was doing... But I have since come to realize that she was in complete control pretty much the whole time, [as subconsciously or not, she was still controlling everything she unleashed].

👆

Originally posted by Galan007
spliff

You bad bad boy.

Originally posted by Mr Master
But you do agree that the AE folded Marvel without releasing any energy.

I just wanted to clear that up.

Originally posted by Mr Master
In terms of better, I don't see a difference concerning a battle.

They can both collapse the Omniverse,
so the next step is, who can collapse it faster.

This would determine the winner based on a "speed blitz" type situation of godly proportions.

That is of course, considering that either of them can die.

Perhaps Wanda would just remain there looking at him asking,
"Why'd you do that?" 😂

Originally posted by Mr Master
I agree, I did say I fell Wanda is simply more powerful.
Because of her other abilities that the AE did not show.

So does that mean you're in favor of placing Wanda higher then the AE? 😛

Originally posted by Mr Master
True. But now that he's merged with the Omniverse, it should bve a different story

I mean, he now knows everything Reed knows and more,
cause he merged with the Future as well. (Reed wanted no part of that).

Originally posted by Mr Master
You bad bad boy.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yep.

😎

Originally posted by Galan007
So does that mean you're in favor of placing Wanda higher then the AE?

I think so.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's more then likely correct, but I doubt we'll ever know for sure.

Yea, we may never see the AE again.

I think it's purpose was to give us an update on who embodies Marvel.

.............................................................................

On another note,

is it just me, or are there a bunch of new pinheads roaming the vs forums?

I've never seen so many intelligent brickheads in kmc like now.
(before we had the usual suspects, but now ... doh)

It's ridiculous ... I think I'm gonna start avoiding it,
to many ...
I don't even know what to call them "fanboys"
or "overly proud" cats, that seem to abhor being wrong.

Even with overwhelming evidence against them,
they come back with more sign23 (and NO proof of their own)