The Midnighter vs. Wolverine

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
All that shows is shadow... 😕

Anyone who thinks it was the writers intent for Wolverine to be missing bones behind his eyes is an idiot. FACT. What we are looking at is a mistake, plan and simple, and nothing more. A mistake that was made based on lack of knowledge and misconception. Certainly nothing credible to base an arguement on Wolverine having an incomplete skeletal structure on. You might as well be arguing that Deathstroke is mentally retarded because his powers are predicated on the misconception that humans only use 10% of their brain, when in fact everyone uses 100%.

If it was the ever the intention of the writers that Wolverine had an incomplete skeletal structure, it would have been mentioned in print. Why hasn't been mentioned? Because it isn't. Apparently the fact the skull is completely encased in bone isn't common knowledge, I mean look how many times Cresh has had to post a picture of a human skull. It is a mistake made by a handful of writers who have apparently never studied human anatomy. It is PIS. This argument is ridiculous. It is just a mistake, and a mistake that HASN'T been made by the hundreds of other writers who have worked on Wolverine in the past. Wonder why that is?

Honestly, who here believes truthfully that it was the writers intent to suggest that Wolverine doesn't have a complete skull, and not a simple mistake? Not sure why I even bothered posting this... I pretty much expect bogus nonsense straw-grasping theories from OneDumbG0, a guy who thinks Namor is incapable of bleeding out, by virtue of being an Atlantian.

Perhaps Wolverine SHOULD have Adamantium bones behind the eye sockets but there's on panel evidence of him going down to a bullet to/through the eye, panels that show the shadow of Adamantium receding back but leaving open to interpretation where that Adamantium stops and "gaping black holes" where there's not much room to recede back into.
Maybe Wolverine's skeleton isn't incomplete, perhaps it was a *uckup on Apoc's behalf, all of the evidence that Wolverine's eye was backed with bone comes from pre-fatal attractions, one would think that Weapon X and Romulus would put more pain staking attention to detail than a megalomaniac like Apoc who was preoccupied doing a million things at once anyways. Perhaps Wolverine's skeleton isn't incomplete, and it's simply that the Admantium didn't cover over the entire bone structure in parts. It's a stretch but it's still a plausible/probable explaination backed by the evidence presented.

The equation with DS doesn't really work, he's not retarded on panel, Wolverine's eye sockets however.. well.... 😬

I have no choice but to concede...

However I wil say that the Deadpool shot into the brain is sheer stupidity still. If Wolverine didn't have Adamantium at the base of his skull at the roof of his mouth, his head would crank back like a pez dispensor any time a brick hit him in the face. That hasn't happened ever so I really can't concede to that one.

Originally posted by jinzin
Meh, we're arguing in terms of woulds and shoulds, Spiderman SHOULD be able to KO human beings with a punch or obliterate them. Cap SHOULDN'T be more durable than Spiderman, Spiderman SHOULD be faster in battle than street levels to a rediculous degree etc etc...

Perhaps Wolverine SHOULD have Adamantium bones behind the eye sockets but there's on panel evidence of him going down to a bullet to/through the eye, panels that show the shadow of Adamantium receding back but leaving open to interpretation where that Adamantium stops and "gaping black holes" where there's not much room to recede back into.
Maybe Wolverine's skeleton isn't incomplete, perhaps it was a *uckup on Apoc's behalf, all of the evidence that Wolverine's eye was backed with bone comes from pre-fatal attractions, one would think that Weapon X and Romulus would put more pain staking attention to detail than a megalomaniac like Apoc who was preoccupied doing a million things at once anyways. Perhaps Wolverine's skeleton isn't incomplete, and it's simply that the Admantium didn't cover over the entire bone structure in parts. It's a stretch but it's still a plausible/probable explaination backed by the evidence presented.

The equation with DS doesn't really work, he's not retarded on panel, Wolverine's eye sockets however.. well.... 😬

I have no choice but to concede...

However I wil say that the Deadpool shot into the brain is sheer stupidity still. If Wolverine didn't have Adamantium at the base of his skull at the roof of his mouth, his head would crank back like a pez dispensor any time a brick hit him in the face. That hasn't happened ever so I really can't concede to that one.

you've risen a few notches in my book 😄

Wolverine has been drawn with 3" claws more often then he has been shot in the brain. Are his claws 3 feet now? No... because that doesn't make anysense. I can even show a scan where he is drawn with Adamantium muscles, but we ignore it because it doesn't make a lick of sense. How is this different? A mistake down by a handful of artist who haven't seen the human skill before it as it is. A mistake that hasn't been replicated nearly enough for it to be taken at face value.

We have:

One idiot who thinks a bullet can penetrate through the eye.
One idiot who thinks a bullet can penetrate through the nose.
One idiot who thinks a bullet can penetrate through... I don't even know... the base of the skull?

That's three idiots, who made three seperate mistakes. Three mistakes that don't make each other more credible.

Doesn't look hallow from here.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
They are in the respect thread. It's a short but good one. They've already been discussed throughout this thread. The top being the kicking a fired tank shell out of mid air, beating a super speedster zombie that the rest of the Authority couldn't handle and spinning his staff around to block mounted machine gun fire and blitzing a Gamorian super-terrorist when he was several feet away and the super-terrorist had a child hostage.

Okay I checked out his feats of speed, and I have to honestly say I'm thoroughly unimpressed... 😐

He kicked a tank shell... Okay...? I simply don't think this is a feat that outdoes Wolverine by any means whatsoever. Wolverine has deflected rockets with his claws, snagged and blocked rocket powered darts out of the air. It's a great feat of skill and stopping power doing that without blowing it up, but it does nothing to suggest he's a great deal faster than Wolverine.

Beating a super speedster was a nice feat, but it once again does nothing to support that he's faster. The speedster was moving faster than the teams could register and even think but that doesn't really equate to Wolverine in any way whatsoever. Spiderman's done that to people, and Wolverine's done it too. When professor X turned into a brood he was STILL to slow to stop Wolverine from cutting his tail off who was moving too fast for his/it's telepathic powers to catch on to.
Wolverine also has had "who ya gonna call" moments when it comes to his speed and the rest of his team, this has been demonstrated in the danger room, using his speed to save his teammates who were systematically getting downed one by one, taking down a Prime Sentinal on two occasions that the beasts were too fast for the X-Men to beat, blitzing Domina faster than her adaptive powers or her natural powers could compensate for when the whole X-team that fought her before failed against her.
And he's handled speedsters as well, Speed Demon, Speedball and Riptide all being prime examples.
The feat MN pulled of was almost a mirror/akin example of how Gambit beat Quicksilver. Gambit's by no means faster than Wolverine. 😬

His bullet blocking feat... I don't see how that's really THAT impressive to say he's faster than Wolverine. He blocked what looks to be one bullet, or a single stream of bullets that never changed from their original trajectory. It's nothing more impressive than what Gambit has done, DD even has more impressive feats of bullet blocking than that, and it isn't has if Wolverine hasn't blocked equally threatening things such as Riptides shurikens or negotiated machine gun fire, he's made his move on 9 men without getting hit, dodged multiple machine guns with his back turned to his shooters, SITTING on a bar stool so fast over the counter that they thought he literally vanished.
Again it's simply not an impressive enough feat to call him faster than Logan.

And blitzing the terrorist really doesn't strike me as impressive either. Wolverine's blitzed people faster than their trigger fingers could compensate from 3 times the distance. I assume we're to assume that the super terrorist was multitudes faster in mental registration than the average human being? If so, is there proof?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I already explained Danger several times. She was fighting the entire team AND she initially miscalculated because she based her projections on simulated exercises rather than true fighting scenarios. Once she adjusted, she curbstomped all of them. And Prime Sentinels... I don't put them on the same calculative ability level as Midnighter.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'd argue that it'd be instant 10 second knockout at the least. I mean, you saw his tooth bullet feat and what it did to the building column, right? Tooth enamel is quite hard. Fragments of it bouncing around with that amount of destructive force would be devastating. But even if it doesn't instantly knock him out for 10 seconds, it'd screw him up badly and incapacitate his motor functioning severely. During that time-frame, Midnighter could pound on him some more to screw up his noggin even more or utilize one of the other two methods I listed available to him to win.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That's very reasonable. But Midnighter has enhancements that allow him to see other people's enhancements. I'm pretty sure X-23 used the dirt to circumvent the healing factor. I don't think she read a file that taught her this secret. Clumps of dirt continue to keep the wounds open because they cause obstructions that regrowing flesh, blood vessels and skin can't push out. Do it enough, and you're stopping oxygen flow to muscles. At it's core, it's not a very complicated idea.

I'm left with the impression that X only knew of the strategy because she has the same power, time to study it, study Wolverine, and premeditate on it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I can agree with CIS and the Muramasa being a factor. Even if Daken was lying to Deadpool for some reason and it turns out that he uses speed or magic, etc... then perhaps it isn't a great analogy. But the plain presentation of the comics indicate that Daken doesn't have super speed at all. He just has the uncanny ability to predict where his opponent won't be looking. And according to him, he can capitalize on this without any enhanced speed. If Midnighter can predict the fight scenario and figure out where Wolverine won't be looking and utilize his enhanced speed and reflexes, then it works for him even better.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I can even show a scan where he is drawn with Adamantium muscles,

So now Wolverine has Adamantium muscles, his claws are all three feet in length, and he is completely invulnerable... he might be missing a bone behind is eye... but it PIS because there are still muscles there, and aparently his muscles are covered in Adamantium.

Seriously, is that where you guys what to take this batshit retarded argument that is based on nothing?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
So now Wolverine has Adamantium muscles, his claws are all three feet in length, and he is completely invulnerable... he might be missing a bone behind is eye... but it PIS because there are still muscles there, and aparently his muscles are covered in Adamantium.

Seriously, is that where you guys what to take this batshit retarded argument that is based on nothing?

Man, I HATE arguing with you, so I just want to let you know that.. BUT... There's a mass difference here between examples, Wolverine having Adamantium muscles has never been a clincher to any plotline. That's no different than when characters in the background used to be colored one tone or a couple of goofups like Green Hulk being colored grey and vice versa.

Wolverine not having Adamantium bone behind his eye IS intricate to the outcome of plotlines though.

One's nothing more than an artists mistake while the other is a writers ignorance, one has an effect on the plotline the other does not. They're not really the same. 😬

Originally posted by jinzin
Man, I HATE arguing with you, so I just want to let you know that.. BUT... There's a mass difference here between examples, Wolverine having Adamantium muscles has never been a clincher to any plotline. That's no different than when characters in the background used to be colored one tone or a couple of goofups like Green Hulk being colored grey and vice versa.

Wolverine not having Adamantium bone behind his eye IS intricate to the outcome of plotlines though.

One's nothing more than an artists mistake while the other is a writers ignorance, one has an effect on the plotline the other does not. They're not really the same. 😬

also srank, where does it say his muscles are adamantium? cuz I think it was just a bad coloring job

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
So now Wolverine has Adamantium muscles, his claws are all three feet in length, and he is completely invulnerable... he might be missing a bone behind is eye... but it PIS because there are still muscles there, and aparently his muscles are covered in Adamantium.

Seriously, is that where you guys what to take this batshit retarded argument that is based on nothing?

3 feet claws are characterizations....different artists draw differently...some days Hulk is 7 feet tall, other days, hes 12 feet tall

but superman is either bulletproof or not, that is not an artistic freedom.

get it?

Originally posted by jinzin
Man, I HATE arguing with you, so I just want to let you know that.. BUT... There's a mass difference here between examples, Wolverine having Adamantium muscles has never been a clincher to any plotline. That's no different than when characters in the background used to be colored one tone or a couple of goofups like Green Hulk being colored grey and vice versa.

Wolverine not having Adamantium bone behind his eye IS intricate to the outcome of plotlines though.

One's nothing more than an artists mistake while the other is a writers ignorance, one has an effect on the plotline the other does not. They're not really the same. 😬

What makes a writers mistake more credible than the pencilers? The are both artists working together in unison on a single project.

Hulk being drawn grey be mistake was rectified by the actual creation of the Grey Hulk, a mistake on tone is rarely repeated several times like Wolverine's adamantium muscles... which where rippled and had a separate texture which excludes it from being the a goof up on the colourists part, and places it at the foot of the penciler; assuming the writer had no part in it which we don't know.

logan might've contracted some sorta virus that turned his muscles blue

Originally posted by Starscream M
logan might've contracted some sorta virus that turned his muscles blue

Don't you think they would have mentioned that in the story? Like they would have mentioned Wolverine has an incomplete skull if in fact - you know - did. It seems fairly important.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Don't you think they would have mentioned that in the story? Like they would have mentioned Wolverine has an incomplete skull if in fact - you know - did. It seems fairly important.

Logan and Adamantium muscles, what stupidness is this now? OMG this is lame, has a Adamantium skeleton (bones) That's is just poor art/coloring and nothing more.

Originally posted by Starscream M
dood he was getting blasted by Sinister...the world's foremost geneticist. It is very likely those blasts caused Logan's muscles to turn in color, which is self-explanatory and requires no direct mentioning. When you see bullets bouncing off superman, the writer doesn't have to mention that Superman is bulletproof, cuz it is there on panel. When logan gets shot through the eye, the writer doesnt have to state that logan has a defective skull, cuz the bullet entering the brain demonstrates that clearly.

Sinister has a blast that turns muscles blue... that's reaching, not to mention it doesn't explain the texture.

Superman being bullet proof and Wolverine having a defective skull aren't even remotely the same thing champ. Wolverine getting shot in the brain happened - presumably - because the write didn't realise there isn't an entrance big enough behind the eye for a bullet to get through. It wasn't mentioned that Wolverine is missing pieces of his skeleton, because the writer was mistaken into thinking it was a common thing. He wasn't familiar with human anatomy. Hence, it was a mistake. If it was the writer's intention to suggest Wolverine's skeleton is incomplete IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MENTIONED IN THE STORY. They would have needed to explain it, and they would have need to explain how Scalphunter - of all people - knew about it. It wasn't mentioned because the writer didn't realise he was wrong, not because the writer didn't think he need to explain Wolverine is missing part of his skull. It was nothing more than a mistake based on a misconception that there is a entrance to the skull behind the eyes big enough to allow a bullet to pass through. PIS

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Logan and Adamantium muscles, what stupidness is this now? OMG this is lame, has a Adamantium skeleton (bones) That's is just poor art/coloring and nothing more.

The stupidness of it is the whole reason it was brought up.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What makes a writers mistake more credible than the pencilers? The are both artists working together in unison on a single project.

In most cases it's the writers that take pecedence over the direction of the the story.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Hulk being drawn grey be mistake was rectified by the actual creation of the Grey Hulk, a mistake on tone is rarely repeated several times like Wolverine's adamantium muscles... which where rippled and had a separate texture which excludes it from being the a goof up on the colourists part, and places it at the foot of the penciler; assuming the writer had no part in it which we don't know.

Originally posted by Badabing
If someone has you on ignore, they are trying to abide by the rules and not flame and bash. It's best to ignore them because it looks like trolling if you don't.

[b]Offering an opinion or asking questions isn't trolling unless it disrupts the thread or is a blatant disregard of scans and panel feats.

If there's any more unnecessary reports it's a warning. [/B]

Originally posted by jinzin
In most cases it's the writers that take pecedence over the direction of the the story.

I'm not talking about the original instances of that happening, but seperate independant instances.

Originally posted by Silent Master
BTW, it's wasn't a shotgun shell, it was a sniper bullet that the writer later confirmed wasn't supposed to be fired from a BAKG(big ass Kirby gun), I believe the writer also admitted to not knowing anything about Thor.

Writer's often don't know about the characters they're writing. Especially in team books.

Originally posted by Creshosk