The Midnighter vs. Wolverine

Started by wannabe77 pages

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Yea it went through the neck that doesent mean it did not hit anything, also Logan has stated on panel his healing factor will uses the bullets momentum to shoot it out of him. The bullet hit part of his spine and was shot out of his neck, that’s why there the “Krack” to signify bullet hitting the bone. Wolverine at one point thinks that the bullet might be stuck around his spine. Also I like to point out that if your basing the blood splatter for why you believe the bullet didn’t hit his bone, take a look at the bullet. Bullet far to damage to not have hit his adamatium. As for the knee cap, again there a “Krack” it clearly the author intention that it broke on the knee which is why the sound was made. Also the bullet could have splinter or simply his healing factor used the momentum to shoot the bullet out which is a stated fact by wolverine him self that his healing factor does.

I didn’t point out that the bullet didn’t hit the bones, but the contrary. It’s depicted like these bullets are going right through the spine and the knee cap. Rationalising it the way you do seems pretty forced - passing near the spine, whereas a large hole is drawn where the spine should be; splintering; healing factor “spitting” the bullet out in a gush of blood in the precise moment of the hit and, btw., in precise line of the shot that would channel the bullet THROUGH the knee cap – pleeeaaase!
Lets face it, this particular line of pictures is crap “proof” when it comes to the durability of Wolvie’s skeleton, depicting things that should not be possible due to the adamantium (acknowledging comic exaggeration or not) and yet you use one small detail out of them that happens to support your point of view (even though on could still argue, that one would have to hit the eye in the right angle to make the bullet pass to the brain, and the shooter didn’t manage it etc.), which is rather … unsophisticated. That was Mekrob’s point in the first place, as i understand it.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I have been going by way three. I am not basing my entire argument on sciences alone, though sciences do agree with my conclusions. Why should those not be PIS? For one each of the feats has only happen a single time. People trying to say that each of the feats validate the other, is simply wrong. They are all separate incidences. If they were all the same area, say the eye or something they may have an argument, but there not. There completely separate events.

All the feats are using the same reasoning - the existence of particular anatomic holes in the skull - so they are very well related. And you are not using way three (using scientific arguments but giving it some room for comic exaggeration) but way two (using scientific arguments to the letter, precisely relating them to the real world). Using way three would be acknowledging the improbability of a bullet shot through any of the skull's holes (except maybe the fissurae orbitales, depending on caliber) in the real world, but giving ratio a little room by accepting it in a comic context, because it is not utter nonsense like shooting a bullet through an opening that actually doesn't exist. You, on the other hand, were saying these holes, being anatomically correct, would be too small, angled up and winded to be passed by bullets ... and despite some exceptions you'd be absolutely right with that in the real world. As i said, that's using science to the letter. It would be quite ok as a way of argumentation in my book, but if you do so, you'd have to use this scientific precision for every feat in favor AND against any character, including you favorite, otherwise you could understandably be accused of preoccupation (i hear the word "fanboy" being used).

Originally posted by Battlehammer
If we ack-nowledge them as useable evidences, then were are saying wolverine has several large holes in his skeleton, which has never been mention by any of the countless organizations, as well as people who have studied him. Never once mention in any of the scans he been given by beast, Xiaver, Weapon X, Mac and Heather Hudson ect. Not a single handbook has mention such openings as well. Also theses four events directly go against Logan countless depiction of his skeleton on panel. Also the eye one directly goes against two events were the bullet did not enter his brain. The arrow feat is just down right ridiculous. Not only does it go against atonomy severally, but goes against Logan depiction of his skeleton structure.

When in comic book history has any character ever been depicted in an anatomically detailed correct way, especially when it comes to such usually unimportant details like particular bones, blood vessels, muscles and/or holes in the skull???
Those artists may have some general knowledge of anatomy, but they are certainly not Michelangelo or the anatomist Joseph Hyrtl. They read up on particular anatomic details and picture them when they deem them serviceable and ignore them when they’re not important … come on, you must be aware of that!
There is no such thing as a detailed medical file for any character in any handbook and no comic book scientist will ever point out conventional, regular anatomic details like the usual skull holes unless they are of utter importance for the particular situation at hand.

Originally posted by starlock
Even bone claw wolverine wins this match.

That's preposterous. Have you ever really read anything about Midnighter? 😕
Originally posted by The Nuul
I love the scans where Logan gets KOed by a bullet, where does Mid get a gun from? he rarely uses it and its not part of his standard EQ.

That is actually a good question. Guns do not belong to Mid's regular equipment, and without them adamantium Wolvie will probably win.

midnighter can spit out his tooth with extreme force, the scan was posted a while back.

😆

Like that would do anything to Logan but piss him off.

Originally posted by The Nuul
😆

Like that would do anything to Logan but piss him off.

....have you been following the last 20 pages or so? The point being brought up is that midnighter could shoot his tooth as a bullet into wolverines brain, taking him out. As shown bullets to the brain have KO'd wolverine before, and he is capable of being shot through the eye into the brain.

Like Logan would stand there and allow that to happen. This is a blood lusted Logan here and not one whos taking to Mid.

You guys are just basing this on a few hits, kick to the balls, tooth in brain....what happends if the fight doesnt go that way?

This is not a stomp for either of them but Logan will win a good amount of them.

And Logan is unpredictable once bloodlusted.

Originally posted by Trackz
midnighter can spit out his tooth with extreme force, the scan was posted a while back.

Yeah, he can do that. It's a tactic that would require an opponent whose defense is significantly lower than Mid's offense, but imo Adamantium-Logan is too much of an equal to Mid to effectively pull such a stunt on him. It might work nonetheless, but only in the rarest and most obscure of h2h combat situations. As a substantial winning tactic it's not applicable enough in this case, imo.
Originally posted by The Nuul
And Logan is unpredictable once bloodlusted.

Though i would give Logan the win, if Mid dosn't have a gun ready, i wouldn't count on the "unpredictable while bloodlusted" card. this may apply to normal martial artists and telepaths, but bloodlusted or not, any brawler or martial artist has only so many ways in which he/she can act, and Mid calculates a MILLION possibilities a second. Very unlikely that there is one significant move a "wild animal" can make, that's not covered in those million scenarios.

Originally posted by wannabe
I didn’t point out that the bullet didn’t hit the bones, but the contrary. It’s depicted like these bullets are going right through the spine and the knee cap. Rationalising it the way you do seems pretty forced - passing near the spine, whereas a large hole is drawn where the spine should be; splintering; healing factor “spitting” the bullet out in a gush of blood in the precise moment of the hit and, btw., in precise line of the shot that would channel the bullet THROUGH the knee cap – pleeeaaase!
Lets face it, this particular line of pictures is crap “proof” when it comes to the durability of Wolvie’s skeleton, depicting things that should not be possible due to the adamantium (acknowledging comic exaggeration or not) and yet you use one small detail out of them that happens to support your point of view (even though on could still argue, that one would have to hit the eye in the right angle to make the bullet pass to the brain, and the shooter didn’t manage it etc.), which is rather … unsophisticated. That was Mekrob’s point in the first place, as i understand it.

Or the bullets did it the bone and did go through which is what happen unless were assuming Logan can heal adamatium now. If you look at the first type of bullets fired the size of the damage is far less. The Hyrda agent switch bullets, that are blunted/ flat at the end and rather large. They look like to me, to by a special type of bullet. I for get what there reffered to in real live, but they break on impact. Spreading fragments out. This would be very consistent with the bullet holes. The enter wound seems to be much smaller then the exit wound. Also since they spread out when they enter the body the fragments could get behind the knee like it did. It also make a lot of senses to uses to take down a foe were normal bullet holes arnt doing the trick.

Originally posted by wannabe
All the feats are using the same reasoning - the existence of particular anatomic holes in the skull - so they are very well related. And you are not using way three (using scientific arguments but giving it some room for comic exaggeration) but way two (using scientific arguments to the letter, precisely relating them to the real world). Using way three would be acknowledging the improbability of a bullet shot through any of the skull's holes (except maybe the fissurae orbitales, depending on caliber) in the real world, but giving ratio a little room by accepting it in a comic context, because it is not utter nonsense like shooting a bullet through an opening that actually doesn't exist. You, on the other hand, were saying these holes, being anatomically correct, would be too small, angled up and winded to be passed by bullets ... and despite some exceptions you'd be absolutely right with that in the real world. As i said, that's using science to the letter. It would be quite ok as a way of argumentation in my book, but if you do so, you'd have to use this scientific precision for every feat in favor AND against any character, including you favorite, otherwise you could understandably be accused of preoccupation (i hear the word "fanboy" being used).

When in comic book history has any character ever been depicted in an anatomically detailed correct way, especially when it comes to such usually unimportant details like particular bones, blood vessels, muscles and/or holes in the skull???

The problem is Logan skull when shown has always been quite accurate to a normal skull. His ear hole, noises hole ect. All in the correct area’s. In thoses instances were he shot the writer completely ignored what been shown time and again with his skeleton. Also the arrow and noises feat would go directly against Logan on words of him having same organs as a normal human. Arrow feat is ridiculous even if you widen the hole in a skull for the arrow to fit, it still never work lol. Based on both sciences and Logan shown atonomy over 15 years, thoses feats should have been down right impossiable. I don’t see why people should take them as the regular, when there PIS and in the minority. So are we simply to think people can easily shoot into logans head? I mean it happen 4 times in 20 years………… all were single events and really shouldn’t validate eachother.

Originally posted by wannabe

Though i would give Logan the win, if Mid dosn't have a gun ready, i wouldn't count on the "unpredictable while bloodlusted" card. this may apply to normal martial artists and telepaths, but bloodlusted or not, any brawler or martial artist has only so many ways in which he/she can act, and Mid calculates a MILLION possibilities a second. Very unlikely that there is one significant move a "wild animal" can make, that's not covered in those million scenarios.

I doubt berserker would be covered and even if it was there no way midnighter would expect it. Not saying it would happen though.

Originally posted by Trackz
....have you been following the last 20 pages or so? The point being brought up is that midnighter could shoot his tooth as a bullet into wolverines brain, taking him out. As shown bullets to the brain have KO'd wolverine before, and he is capable of being shot through the eye into the brain.

WTF. I thought people were just discussing bullet entering wolverine brain. People were saying midnighter would shot a friggen tooth into it? That the dumbest thing I have ever heard, I can't believe that being argued. God MN so overrated.

Actaully he not capable of being shot through the eye into the brain. For one he ahs adamtium there. Two the one time it happen was PIS. Three I have evidences of bullet not entering his brain in such an attack. Four I have more time of it not entering then entering.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
WTF. I thought people were just discussing bullet entering wolverine brain. People were saying midnighter would shot a friggen tooth into it? That the dumbest thing I have ever heard, I can't believe that being argued. God MN so overrated.

Actaully he not capable of being shot through the eye into the brain. For one he ahs adamtium there. Two the one time it happen was PIS. Three I have evidences of bullet not entering his brain in such an attack. Four I have more time of it not entering then entering.

holy jeez you're still arguing this?! it happened, you may not like it, but it happened. accept it and move on.

Originally posted by Starscream M
holy jeez you're still arguing this?! it happened, you may not like it, but it happened. accept it and move on.

Just becuases it happen doesent not make it PIS.

really though is some one really trying to argue that MN beats wolverine with his tooth? really?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
really though is some one really trying to argue that MN beats wolverine with his tooth? really?
I'll agree with you on how dumb that is

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Just becuases it happen doesent not make it PIS.
its not PIS...it just doesn't comply with real life anatomy...but comics isn't supposed to.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I'll agree with you on how dumb that is

and people wonder why I say he overrated lol

Originally posted by Starscream M
its not PIS...it just doesn't comply with real life anatomy...but comics isn't supposed to.

No it is PIS. Doesent apply to human organs, which logan stated he had nor does it apply to logan 20 years of comics which his skeleton was shown numerous times with out any sign of such a weekness. Oh and the fact it was neevr stated in a single hand book or comic.........and he been scan an analyzied many many times. Also makes no senses to make an ultimate weapon with such weaknesses........

I agree, it's PIS. Dunno who would win in a fight, though. I don't read Midnighter.

Originally posted by Mekrob
wut

A bullet does need to go through the spine if it goes straight through the middle of the throat however. And are you serious with the kneecap part? To go through where it did, let alone the kneecap, it would have to right through his bone.

I notice, however, the middle of the wound is where the spine would appear. Meaning the bullet would have went through the middle, and through his spine.

This scene can't be justified just because it's a good feat for Wolverine. 😬
Great showing of durability, but seemingly terrible knowledge of his skeleton... unless the bullets are just that powerful, or are made of arctic vibranium...

A bullet is less than an half an inch in diameter, it could easily pass through the throat and torso, without hitting the spinal column. To say the bullet had to penetrate the spine is a stretch, there is plenty of room for maneuverability on either side.

And there is no evidence that the bullet went through his knee cap. If a high caliber hollow point bullet connected with an Adamantiun patella the force would be crazy, if his bones weren't interconnected that would take hes leg off, there is more then enough force to blow out / rupture the area behind the kneecap.