Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
He only has a microsecond to react....http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_162.jpg
Moves at unthinkable speeds...
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/NewGodsv310-19.jpg
LOL at those speed feats. 😆
Everyone has the microsecond speed feat (hyperbole). Hell, even Spiderman has it.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
But how much worse, though?
It depends on their PL differences. People with more PL has more power, speed, defense, almost in every aspect. There's an exception like Trunks(Goku and Vegeta too) which is capable to access a SSJ form that gives him more brute strength but lack of speed.
Originally posted by Cole Cash
While we're at it, list DC characters with showings such as this that couldn't give Superman a run for his money.ttp://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v18/c009/5.html
ttp://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v18/c009/6.html
ttp://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v18/c009/7.htmlMaybe Superman isn't even Frieza level, perhaps Zarbon level more accurately describes him, I can't think of a single person in DC who could do something like that, that isn't hot stuff and would get steam rolled by Superman.
In fact, I can't really think of any DC characters offhand that could do something like that, it'd be a very small list.
Very true statement. He isnt Frieza level IF we going by showings instead of contradictions. Speed, Frieza has him beat in spades. Output of power, Frieza has him beat, fighting skills, frieza has him beat, durability, hhhmmm, Superman was one shotted by Doomsday, Titus, Konvikt, got his jaw broken by Zod, koed by a moon busting attack, whereas frieza fought someone in his tier that was hitting him with everything, even punching him through mountains (that only tickled him) and had no damage, things that was destroying the area they were fighting in.
Yeah, its pretty much safe to say that Frieza is more durable. Strength, lifting feats, yeah, I give Superman the nod since that is something that he does and dragonball characters doesnt use that strength in that fashion but hitting power, frieza has that in spades.
If anything, Superman is around Nappa level since beings far slower and possess not even a fraction of nappa power has taken Superman down.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Superman said he can destroy planets. He's a lot more reliable than someone who constantly boasts about his powers. Can you prove that Cell wasn't bluffing?He only survived long enough until his dad got him. If he stayed there any longer, he would have died. Also, there's no proof that Goku's blast was what destroy most of his body.
I really don't see what's important about the question. All we know that he's below Superman and in the end, that's all that really matters. He's not top tier, that's for sure.
I don't think this is really reliable. What part of the manga that states this?
So simply destroying things suddenly gives you fighting skills? 🤨 That's just stupid.
Despite the fact that both have been shown to be above that level numerous times throughout their career. Stop using PIS and low showings.
Also, I should remind you that Goku got tagged by a scrub name Uub. Guess we should focus on that and ignore everything else he's done, right? 😐
LOL at you using hyperbolic statements for one and not accepting the other. BIASED. Superman has never shown the ability to destroy a planet and again, he got koed by a moon busting attack. Yeah, he can destroy a planet. 😕
How about this, show us him fighting at DBZ levels and show us him FIGHTING at light speed. Dont show us space flight because everyone has light speed space flight under their belts. Even Iron man.
http://img444.imageshack.us/i/imcoll6bv1.jpg/
Flew to the sun in a matter of seconds or minutes and I know for a FACT that he fights no where CLOSE to Goku level of speed.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
No, if the source is credible, then it can be used. Superman isn't like Cell and is a lot more reliable. He doesn't brag about his powers or anything like that, unlike Cell. So which character do YOU think is reliable?Which one do you think is more likely to destroy chunks off of Frieza's body; small blast or an explosion of a planet? Think carefully now.
You still have not given a reason WHY he's top tier. You're just saying "he can destroy planets, he's top tier" basically. Why don't you actually be a bit more descriptive of his abilities and then MAYBE we can place him somewhere.
Let's hear it then. Prove that it was hyperbolic.
So now since he's fighting guys that he's obviously much stronger than, he got skills now? By that logic, Superman is more skilled than Batman and Wonder Woman.
What is so special about Frieza's hand-to-hand skills? Nothing. Hardly any fights in DBZ are based on skills, It's mainly just "who is more stronger". Also, I said it before and I'll say it again; you can't just say he's top tier and not give a good description of his powers. I know for a fact, however, he's nowhere near Superman's level. He's got more firepower but other than that, he's not fast, strong, or durable enough to be on Superman's level. It's that simple.
Uub was inexperienced and didn't even know how to use his powers, which is MUCH different from Goku. If you got nothing but powers to refer to when talking about that fight, then you prove my point about how irrelevent skills are in DBZ.
Also, a PIS showing, a guy who uses his own weakness against Supes, and an [b]amped
human? That's suppose to ultimately prove that Supes is below Goku and Freiza? That's ridiculous. Why don't you ever mention the high showings? [/B]
How fast is Superman COMBAT speed and when you answer this show a scan. The only indication of Superman speed is him hitting 2000 mps. Hell, they created a BIO for Superman a couple of months back that stated that his top speed was only 2000mps. Goku and Frieza are MUCH faster.
I can easily tell you how powerful frieza is. King KI claimed that he was a universal threat, their, there goes your answer. Hell, Goku along with Picollo claimed that he was a universal threat and again, people like darkseid, Konvikt, The general, shaggy man, Grundy, aint touching even Nappa during combat so I dont even get why you are thinking Superman is anywhere close to frieza combat wise when he is not. Yeah, he has SOME showings of using speed but 1). Its still no where close to Dragonball z level and 2). Its not consistent enough. His more consistent showings present him as a brick. Frieza would dance around Superman attacks as easily as I'm typing these paragraphs. Is Superman fast, yeah, when it comes to people in his universe. Is Superman on DBZ characters level of speed, HELL NO.
Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
When did this happened? I thought Superman survived after got hit by 2 planet.
Trust me, it happened. Cant think of his name right now but a shadow guy was creating a moon over the earth that was basically going to destroy it. Batman stated that this moon had the same mass as earths moon but they were trying to think of a way to destroy it. Superman said that he can do it. He ended up flying out of the ship and increased his speed fast enough so that he can use his body to destroy the moon (since he was unable to move it). When he hit it, you see his body after the moon is destroyed floating around in space. A couple of hours later, he wakes up asking if he completed the task. Uniform ripped etc.. by the way, that 2 planet feat that you are talking about, Superman was koed from that also.
Go to Supermans respect thread, the moon busting feat is on there.
He's talking about the shadow moon(which was made by shadow magic) that an amped-up Shadow Thief threw at Earth in JLA #30 that Superman busted by flying into it at almost light speed and got KO'd.
And yeah, he did survive after being between two planets colliding in Death of the New Gods. He had actually been getting battered around quite a bit in that issue before the planets collided, so using that to downplay Supes' durability is idiotic.
EDIT: Don't know where Carver got the "2 hours" thing from, there was no passage of time shown from when Kal destroyed the shadow moon and his waking up afterwards.
Originally posted by Kal-El Summers
Looks that way from what I see in the issue.EDIT: Also, you don't need to bother yourself with trying to debate that Cole guy since he's just that retarded DB-wanker Moses Morrison using a dupe because he got perma-banned by Peach last year.
The Cole guy is doing pretty good if you ask me. He is doing a little too much with the scans but besides that, his arguments is solid.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
No, if the source is credible, then it can be used. Superman isn't like Cell and is a lot more reliable. He doesn't brag about his powers or anything like that, unlike Cell. So which character do YOU think is reliable?
I don't find Superman to be any more a credible source than Cell, ergo either both comments count, or they're both irrelevant diatribe.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Which one do you think is more likely to destroy chunks off of Frieza's body; small blast or an explosion of a planet? Think carefully now.
A small blast from Goku which spiked him into a core.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
[B]
You still have not given a reason WHY he's top tier. You're just saying "he can destroy planets, he's top tier" basically. Why don't you actually be a bit more descriptive of his abilities and then MAYBE we can place him somewhere.
I have given plenty reason, guys with Frieza's complete package of durability, speed, strength and energy projection are top tiers.
List these people who aren't top tier that are more powerful than Frieza, right now I can say with 100% certainty that Frieza is more powerful than:
Air-Walker
Wonder Man
Wonder Woman
Full power Namor
Guy Gardner and the ilk
Kyle Rayner
Hal Jordan
Martian Manhunter
Apocalypse
Ikaris
Sersi
etc.
I have Frieza about even with Orion, except Frieza is much faster.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Let's hear it then. Prove that it was hyperbolic.
Alright, show Superman destroying a planet. If you cannot do this, I'm going to take the statement as hyperbolic.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
So now since he's fighting guys that he's obviously much stronger than, he got skills now? By that logic, Superman is more skilled than Batman and Wonder Woman.
No, you said Buu has no experience, I pointed out he has thousands of years of tormenting the universe or whatever. Buu is also a fighting monster/machine, capable of mimicking any attack/technique after seeing it one time. Buu'd be the most skilled fighter in the DCU.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
What is so special about Frieza's hand-to-hand skills?
They're about on par with Goku's.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Nothing. Hardly any fights in DBZ are based on skills,
False, all fights in DBZ are based on a mixture of skill and power. You want to see a fight with ZERO skill involved in it? Look at Wonder Woman vs. Genocide or Superman vs. Doomsday, then compare that to Goku vs. Frieza/Goku vs. Cell/Goku vs. the Ginyu's/Goku vs. Vegeta.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Also, I said it before and I'll say it again; you can't just say he's top tier and not give a good description of his powers.
K, I've given a description of his powers multiple times.
Strength: Class 100
Durability: At LEAST Thor level
Speed: Well in excess of the speed of sound
Energy Projection: Speaks for itself/in the Silver Surfer class
Fighting Skill: Richard Dragon/Iron Fist level, at least.
That's easily a top tier opponent, name someone with those credentials that isn't a top tier, I triple dog dare you.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
He's got more firepower but other than that, he's not fast, strong, or durable enough to be on Superman's level. It's that simple.
Sure he is, he's quicker than Superman, more skilled than Superman, more powerful than Superman and hits about as hard as Superman does, I'd reckon. Maybe he hits harder. The only difference is that Superman obviously has a durability and stamina edge. They're on the same tier, and you could make a case for either one being more powerful than the other.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Uub was inexperienced and didn't even know how to use his powers, which is MUCH different from Goku.
Uub was experienced enough to actually speedblitz and cause Goku physical pain with his attacks. He was really freaking powerful.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
If you got nothing but powers to refer to when talking about that fight, then you prove my point about how irrelevent skills are in DBZ.
What do you mean nothing but powers? Goku and Uub were exchanging punches at an extremely high speed and Uub was parrying and dodging the blows like he was Batman or something.
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Also, a PIS showing, a guy who uses his own weakness against Supes, and an [b]amped human? That's suppose to ultimately prove that Supes is below Goku and Freiza? That's ridiculous. Why don't you ever mention the high showings? [/B]
I'd say these scans more than prove my case for me:
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed.jpg
^That's confirmed light speedster Metallo knocking Superman away like he's trash right there
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed1.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed11.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed12.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed5.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed6.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed8.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed9.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed2.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed3.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed4.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed14.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed13.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed19.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/wheresthespeed5.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/wheresthespeed4.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/wheresthespeed3.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/wheresthespeed2.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/wheresthespeed1.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/Whersthespeed.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/wheresthespeed7.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/Ohnoes.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/cityd2.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/cityd4.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/werewolves.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed7.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed17.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed18.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed16.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed15.jpg
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed10.jpg
For kicks, Batman with Superman's powers getting his face bashed in by Nightwing
ttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/Supermanlost.jpg
I can provide so much more than that, however, I tried to keep it to action comics and Superman/Batman, I know how much Superman fanboys HATE it when you post JLA Superman. The excuse is usually, "Superman is written down for JLA" or something similarly laughable. I also tried to keep them within the last 10 years, I know how Superman fanboys love to use old scans but HATE HATE HATE it when you do the same.
Originally posted by Cole Cashhttp://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed1.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed11.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed12.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed5.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed6.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed8.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed9.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed2.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed3.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed4.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed14.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed13.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed19.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/wheresthespeed5.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/wheresthespeed4.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/wheresthespeed3.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/wheresthespeed2.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/wheresthespeed1.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/Whersthespeed.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/wheresthespeed7.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/Ohnoes.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/cityd2.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/cityd4.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/werewolves.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed7.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed17.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed18.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed16.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed15.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/nailed10.jpgFor kicks, Batman with Superman's powers getting his face bashed in by Nightwing
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/Supermanlost.jpg
Fixed. Seriously, you gave me enough trouble to open all of them.
Originally posted by carver9
LOL at you using hyperbolic statements for one and not accepting the other. BIASED. Superman has never shown the ability to destroy a planet and again, he got koed by a moon busting attack. Yeah, he can destroy a planet. 😕How about this, show us him fighting at DBZ levels and show us him FIGHTING at light speed. Dont show us space flight because everyone has light speed space flight under their belts. Even Iron man.
http://img444.imageshack.us/i/imcoll6bv1.jpg/
Flew to the sun in a matter of seconds or minutes and I know for a FACT that he fights no where CLOSE to Goku level of speed.
What moon busting attack? Also, I accept comments from a reliable source. That's not being bias. Besides, Cell's comment contradicted by the event that happened. It just made a crater.
You don't seem to be 100% sure how fast Iron Man made it to the moon, therefore, how can you be sure it was faster than light? There's nothing in those panels that states that.
