ANIME Fighters VS AMERICAN Superheros

Originally posted by Cole Cash
Why? I've seen Superman fanboys cry for days about Cell's claim of solar system destruction (because it shows Gohan overpowering solar system destruction with one hand, and that'd be just too devastating a blow for them) so why should I treat Superman's claim any differently?

Because Cell's claim was contradicted by the event itself; his blast DIDN'T destroy a solar system. It just made a crater.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]Sure I can, list people in the DCU that have Frieza's showings but wouldn't give Superman a fight.

You can't do this, people with Frieza's showings are held with the same regard to power as Superman.

I don't think you get what I'm saying. First, you have to give me examples of his advantages over Superman, otherwise you can't say he's on Superman's level. He's gotta have more than just firepower to beat Superman.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]
Sure it will, Superman has been taken down by significantly less than Frieza firepower.

So explain why he's taken significantly more?

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]
Being more powerful than Frieza.

Sorry, you gotta do better than that. Unless you can tell me how much stronger his compared to Frieza, you can't make that claim.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]Then why are you acting like he goes around left and right slaughtering guys as powerful as Frieza?

Well what advantages does Frieza have other than just firepower? Just saying "he destroy a planet" isn't enough.

And by speedblitzing, I mean something like:

YouTube video

or

YouTube video

I've never seen Darkseid do anything like this to anyone, ever, because he's not very fast, mostly. People who aren't very fast tend to get fat lips from Batman, really.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Because Cell's claim was contradicted by the event itself; his blast DIDN'T destroy a solar system. It just made a crater.

Of course his blast didn't destroy a solar system, it was engulfed by Gohan's which wasn't inteneded to destroy a solar system.

It's no different than Superman having never shown the power necessary to destroy a planet in the first place. I'd be more than willing to accept the Superman quote if you accept the Cell one. That's a fair trade, but I don't think you're unbiased enough to do this. So I'll be the bigger man and just disregard both. That's how I always look at it.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
otherwise you can't say he's on Superman's level. He's gotta have more than just firepower to beat Superman.

Sure I can, I'm saying he's on Superman's level because that's where people with his level of power are treated in DC, you're saying they aren't and Superman is on another tier.

Prove this, show people with Frieza's showings that aren't Superman level. Show these planet destroying scrubs from DC. I'd like to see these times where Superman has dominated beings as powerful as Frieza, I've seen plenty of times where he's struggled with beings Frieza would slaughter in a blink of the eye.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

So explain why he's taken significantly more?

He really hasn't, most of those were out of combat outliers. I've never seen anyone on Frieza's level of power have troubles harming Superman.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

Sorry, you gotta do better than that. Unless you can tell me how much stronger his compared to Frieza, you can't make that claim.

Hmmm, well, he effectively doubled his power when he got out of the RoSaT. So that'd be times 2. SSJ2 is double FPSSJ, so that'd be 4. SSJ3 is double SSJ2 so that'd be about 8.

So about 8ish times more powerful than Frieza. That's a huge gap. For emphasis

Goku - 800
Superman - 90-120 depending on how you look at things
Frieza - 100

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

Well what advantages does Frieza have other than just firepower? Just saying "he destroy a planet" isn't enough.

Sure it is, physically he's in the class 100 range and has top notch durability, speedwise he's hard to hit by legit speedsters, he's got at least Richard Dragon level martial arts skill AND that out of this world energy projection.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
Of course his blast didn't destroy a solar system, it was engulfed by Gohan's which wasn't inteneded to destroy a solar system.

It's no different than Superman having never shown the power necessary to destroy a planet in the first place. I'd be more than willing to accept the Superman quote if you accept the Cell one. That's a fair trade, but I don't think you're unbiased enough to do this.

It doesn't matter if it was "intended" to destroy a solar system, the blast made a crater right there on the ground, nothing more. Therefore, it's pretty obvious it couldn't destroy a solar system.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]Sure I can, I'm saying he's on Superman's level because that's where people with his level of power are treated in DC, you're saying they aren't and Superman is on another tier.

Prove this, show people with Frieza's showings that aren't Superman level. Show these planet destroying scrubs from DC. I'd like to see these times where Superman has dominated beings as powerful as Frieza, I've seen plenty of times where he's struggled with beings Frieza would slaughter in a blink of the eye.

You still don't get it, do you? You first have to show what showings Frieza has for you to make a claim that he's on Superman's level. All he has is firepower, but what about stuff like speed? Strength? Durability? If you can't find any like those that are comparable to Superman's, then how can you argue that he's on Supes level?

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]
He really hasn't, most of those were out of combat outliers. I've never seen anyone on Frieza's level of power have troubles harming Superman.

Combat or not, they are comic portrayals, something you say that we shouldn't ignore. Also, you still have yet prove what level Frieza is?

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]
Hmmm, well, he effectively doubled his power when he got out of the RoSaT. So that'd be times 2. SSJ2 is double FPSSJ, so that'd be 4. SSJ3 is double SSJ2 so that'd be about 8.

So about 8ish times more powerful than Frieza. That's a huge gap. For emphasis

Goku - 800
Superman - 90-120 depending on how you look at things
Frieza - 100

Now post the scans confirming these numbers?

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]
Sure it is, physically he's in the class 100 range and has top notch durability, speedwise he's hard to hit by legit speedsters, he's got at least Richard Dragon level martial arts skill AND that out of this world energy projection.

Okay so...proof?

Actually, I think he probably multiplied his power by 3-4 after the RoSaT

I had a brain fart and was thinking based on the fact that USSJ Vegeta = SSJ Goku.

FPSSJ Goku had surpassed Vegeta with half his power.

So if USSJ Vegeta would be x2 Frieza, that'd make FPSSJ Goku x4 Frieza.

SSJ2 is double that, x8.
SSJ3 is double that, x16.

Goku - 1600
Superman - 90-120
Frieza - 100

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
It doesn't matter if it was "intended" to destroy a solar system, the blast made a crater right there on the ground, nothing more. Therefore, it's pretty obvious it couldn't destroy a solar system.

It really isn't, because that's not the way fiction works, and you know this, you're purposely reading too deep into Dragonball to downplay it. Logically it couldn't, but logically, they shouldn't be shooting ki out their hands in the first place.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

You still don't get it, do you? You first have to show what showings Frieza has for you to make a claim that he's on Superman's level.

Destroyed a planet? [x]
Destroyed islands and buildings by punching people into them/with the after shock of his attacks? Definite class 100 stuff right there. [x]
Survived a planet exploding while buried somewhere in the crust, chopped into pieces and out of power? [x] That's top tier durability.

Skills speak for themself.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

Combat or not, they are comic portrayals, something you say that we shouldn't ignore. Also, you still have yet prove what level Frieza is?

I'd say Frieza is about Orion level. Also, I understand they are comic portrayals, which is why I have Superman on Frieza's level in the first place, lord knows he isn't as formidable in actual combat.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

Now post the scans confirming these numbers?

Those numbers come from the guidebook that have SSJ = x50, SSJ2 = x100, SSJ3 = x200.

And the double figure comes from the fact that Goku powered up half way in front of Korin and Vegeta had claimed he surpassed him.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

Okay so...proof?

All the above listed facts, plus he's able to fight evenly with Goku. That tells me he's at least as skilled as Richard Dragon or some such.

Whereas Superman might one day get to Tim Drake's level if Tim stops superheroing.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
It really isn't, because that's not the way fiction works, and you know this, you're purposely reading too deep into Dragonball to downplay it. Logically it couldn't, but logically, they shouldn't be shooting ki out their hands in the first place.

I don't know what you mean "that's not how fiction works". There's no point in debating this if you're gonna complain about how things work in fiction.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]
Destroyed a planet? [x]
Destroyed islands and buildings by punching people into them/with the after shock of his attacks? Definite class 100 stuff right there. [x]
Survived a planet exploding while buried somewhere in the crust, chopped into pieces and out of power? [x] That's top tier durability.

Skills speak for themself.

1. We know this
2. Superman has taken much worse punches, I think. If I recall correctly, he was knocked across the planet.
3. I won't necessarily that's durability since the explosion did take huge chunks off his body.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]
I'd say Frieza is about Orion level. Also, I understand they are comic portrayals, which is why I have Superman on Frieza's level in the first place, lord knows he isn't as formidable in actual combat.

There's no way you can go by comic portrayals and STILL put Superman on Freiza's level. You must don't know much about Superman to say that.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]
Those numbers come from the guidebook that have SSJ = x50, SSJ2 = x100, SSJ3 = x200.

And the double figure comes from the fact that Goku powered up half way in front of Korin and Vegeta had claimed he surpassed him.

Can you post this guidebook?

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]All the above listed facts, plus he's able to fight evenly with Goku. That tells me he's at least as skilled as Richard Dragon or some such.

Whereas Superman might one day get to Tim Drake's level if Tim stops superheroing.

Buu was able to fight evenly with Goku too and he has no fighting experience.

Also, DBZ fights are hardly ever based around just pure skill.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I don't know what you mean "that's not how fiction works". There's no point in debating this if you're gonna complain about how things work in fiction.

Okay, I'll note this the next time I see Odin or someone have one of their heavily hyperbolic battles and there's barely craters left in the Earth.

Either way, it's a moot point, SSJ2's can't level solar systems and Superman can't destroy planets, that's a fair trade off.

Although, a very telling representation in the gap of power between the two.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

2. Superman has taken much worse punches, I think. If I recall correctly, he was knocked across the planet.

Okay, that's cool.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
3. I won't necessarily that's durability since the explosion did take huge chunks off his body.

That'd be Goku spiking him into the crust. Either way it goes, you aren't surviving something like that unless you have Superman level durability.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

There's no way you can go by comic portrayals and STILL put Superman on Freiza's level. You must don't know much about Superman to say that.

I can, quite confidently, say I know much more about Superman than yourself. Also, Frieza is pretty much Superman level, if Frieza is not Superman level, then who, in DC, do you believe Frieza to be on par with and explain why.

You keep ducking this question, I wonder why?

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

Can you post this guidebook?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Daizenshuu+7

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

Buu was able to fight evenly with Goku too and he has no fighting experience.

Outside of the thousand or so years he spent destroying the Dragonball Universe and being created to be the best fighter in the Universe, yeah, no fight experience at all. He's got Superman level skill. *eyeroll*

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

Also, DBZ fights are hardly ever based around just pure skill.

Sure they are, skill, speed, strength and ki blasts. It's why you don't see scrubs with Satan speed beating on the Z cast like you see with Superman/Wonder Woman/etc.

While we're at it, list DC characters with showings such as this that couldn't give Superman a run for his money.

ttp://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v18/c009/5.html
ttp://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v18/c009/6.html
ttp://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v18/c009/7.html

Maybe Superman isn't even Frieza level, perhaps Zarbon level more accurately describes him, I can't think of a single person in DC who could do something like that, that isn't hot stuff and would get steam rolled by Superman.

In fact, I can't really think of any DC characters offhand that could do something like that, it'd be a very small list.

I wounder if Cole Cash is Moses from Moviecodec or not since his post sound like something that Moses would make.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
Darkseid would get utterly curbstomped by Frieza, stop saying patently silly things.

Well Darkseid pretty much almost destroy the Multiverse level in FC, and his Omega effect was powerful enough to hurt The Spectre. I don't see how he can't beat Freeza?

Originally posted by Cole Cash
I'm pretty sure if the story called for it, Frieza would be more than capable of destroying a star or a sun-eater.

Superman fanboys would probably treat it like they treat Master Roshi destroying the moon and ignore it, while loving every moment of Superman doing the same things.

How can Freeza star burst? You do know that the sun's GBE is on the order of 1e41j right? It would take over 500 million times more energy to destroy the sun than the earth. You must be telling me that Freeza is 500 million times stronger then Sayain Saga Vegeta?

Originally posted by Cole Cash
Because Frieza held back, he destroyed Vegeta with his index finger rather easily, and that's the way DC tends to write people with Frieza's showings of power at times. Unless you're going to tell me Superman is multiple times more powerful than Black Adam, Black Adam cannot destroy a star or sun eater.

Also, it took what for Superman to destroy a planet again? He hasn't, because he can't? The only thing you can show is him freezing the brain of a sun eater?

Freeza Planet destroying feat for Planet Vegeta is circle feat since he never shown to destroy a Planet without a cain rection in combat.

I see Odin or someone have one of their heavily hyperbolic battles and there's barely craters left in the Earth.

But all of that happens since collateral damage has been reduced due to the Plot. Look at Screet Wars with the battle between MM and Beyonder for example since most of the time, they where not destroying in the area.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
Okay, I'll note this the next time I see Odin or someone have one of their heavily hyperbolic battles and there's barely craters left in the Earth.

Either way, it's a moot point, SSJ2's can't level solar systems and Superman can't destroy planets, that's a fair trade off.

Although, a very telling representation in the gap of power between the two.

Superman said he can destroy planets. He's a lot more reliable than someone who constantly boasts about his powers. Can you prove that Cell wasn't bluffing?

Originally posted by Cole Cash
That'd be Goku spiking him into the crust. Either way it goes, you aren't surviving something like that unless you have Superman level durability.

He only survived long enough until his dad got him. If he stayed there any longer, he would have died. Also, there's no proof that Goku's blast was what destroy most of his body.

Originally posted by Cole Cash I can, quite confidently, say I know much more about Superman than yourself. Also, Frieza is pretty much Superman level, if Frieza is not Superman level, then who, in DC, do you believe Frieza to be on par with and explain why.

You keep ducking this question, I wonder why?

I really don't see what's important about the question. All we know that he's below Superman and in the end, that's all that really matters. He's not top tier, that's for sure.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Daizenshuu+7

I don't think this is really reliable. What part of the manga that states this?

Originally posted by Cole Cash
Outside of the thousand or so years he spent destroying the Dragonball Universe and being created to be the best fighter in the Universe, yeah, no fight experience at all. He's got Superman level skill. *eyeroll*

So simply destroying things suddenly gives you fighting skills? 🤨 That's just stupid.

Originally posted by Cole Cash Sure they are, skill, speed, strength and ki blasts. It's why you don't see scrubs with Satan speed beating on the Z cast like you see with Superman/Wonder Woman/etc.

Despite the fact that both have been shown to be above that level numerous times throughout their career. Stop using PIS and low showings.

Also, I should remind you that Goku got tagged by a scrub name Uub. Guess we should focus on that and ignore everything else he's done, right? 😐

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Superman said he can destroy planets. He's a lot more reliable than someone who constantly boasts about his powers. Can you prove that Cell wasn't bluffing?

Super Perfect Cell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Freeza 1st form. Freeza 1st form was able to destroy a planet with a blast from his finger as he showed in Bardock movie. Super Perfect Cell is far far superior in durability, power, speed. But what amaze me is, some people here classifies their energy level at same level. Even Superman is not reliable too. He said he can destroy planet but on the other hand he flies faster than light from Saturn to Moon and only manage to split the moon with his fist. Maybe not split the moon but he just made a fissure on the moon. Whatever it is, it's still interesting.

Originally posted by Hellspawn28
I wounder if Cole Cash is Moses from Moviecodec or not since his post sound like something that Moses would make.

Well Darkseid pretty much almost destroy the Multiverse level in FC, and his Omega effect was powerful enough to hurt The Spectre. I don't see how he can't beat Freeza?

In Final Crisis he was powered up by the Anti Life Equation. He can't beat Frieza because he's not as powerful nor is he as quick or skilled.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Superman said he can destroy planets. He's a lot more reliable than someone who constantly boasts about his powers. Can you prove that Cell wasn't bluffing?

Superman is not a more credible source than Cell, either neither comment counts or both do. You can not just pick and choose which statement counts based on what is more convenient to yourself.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

He only survived long enough until his dad got him. If he stayed there any longer, he would have died. Also, there's no proof that Goku's blast was what destroy most of his body.

There's no proof that the planet was what destroyed most of his body either, omigoshwtfbbqicandoittoo.

Also surviving something that in the first place is not something you can do without Superman level durability, I'd like to see a list of names in DC that can do this that aren't in Superman's class. If I cannot see a list, I'll take it as point made.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

I really don't see what's important about the question. All we know that he's below Superman and in the end, that's all that really matters. He's not top tier, that's for sure.

He's easily top tier, you cannot list a single name because you know for a fact that he's top tier. Frieza is not an exception to anything. People with Frieza's showings are top tier in DC, get, over, it.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

I don't think this is really reliable. What part of the manga that states this?

It's more reliable than hyperbolic statements from Superman which you take as the gospel.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

So simply destroying things suddenly gives you fighting skills? 🤨 That's just stupid.

Well, when you're kicking the crud out of Fighting Gods and the planets best fighters, I suppose that is an example of fighting skills.

Silly me for not absolutely spelling it out for you and hoping a Superman fan would not take the word destroying absolutely literally.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

Despite the fact that both have been shown to be above that level numerous times throughout their career. Stop using PIS and low showings.

They have never shown to be above Frieza level, especially in hand to hand skills. You don't even know what level Frieza is in the first place, I always ask you to give me a solid name so we can compare and you refuse to do such, because you know for a fact that Frieza is easily a top tier.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

Also, I should remind you that Goku got tagged by a scrub name Uub. Guess we should focus on that and ignore everything else he's done, right? 😐

Uub is the reincarnation of Kid Buu and was sufficiently powerful enough to inflict physical harm on Goku, fight at a high rate of speed AND knock Goku back like 10-15ft by merely yelling at him.

That's a pretty far cry from getting your ass kicked by Aquaman, Lex Luthor in battle armor and Batman with blackrock amping his strength.

Originally posted by Hellspawn28
How can Freeza star burst? You do know that the sun's GBE is on the order of 1e41j right? It would take over 500 million times more energy to destroy the sun than the earth. You must be telling me that Freeza is 500 million times stronger then Sayain Saga Vegeta?

You don't need to be 500 million times stronger than Saiyan Saga Vegeta to destroy a star, writers don't pay attention to that nonsense when they have these characters destroy stars. Especially not Toriyama, who had Master friggin Roshi destroying moons. I could easily see Frieza being written to destroy a star if that's what the plot required.

Originally posted by Hellspawn28

Freeza Planet destroying feat for Planet Vegeta is circle feat since he never shown to destroy a Planet without a cain rection in combat.

I don't understand what you said, are you saying the planet Vegeta showing weighs less than the showing where Goku believes Frieza held back his power because he was too badly weakened to survive planetary destruction point blank?

I think even Frieza comments on holding back too much.

Originally posted by Hellspawn28

But all of that happens since collateral damage has been reduced due to the Plot. Look at Screet Wars with the battle between MM and Beyonder for example since most of the time, they where not destroying in the area.

Yeah, and the same thing can be said about the collateral damage between Gohan and Cell.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
Superman is not a more credible source than Cell, either neither comment counts or both do. You can not just pick and choose which statement counts based on what is more convenient to yourself.

No, if the source is credible, then it can be used. Superman isn't like Cell and is a lot more reliable. He doesn't brag about his powers or anything like that, unlike Cell. So which character do YOU think is reliable?

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]
There's no proof that the planet was what destroyed most of his body either, omigoshwtfbbqicandoittoo.

Also surviving something that in the first place is not something you can do without Superman level durability, I'd like to see a list of names in DC that can do this that aren't in Superman's class. If I cannot see a list, I'll take it as point made.

Which one do you think is more likely to destroy chunks off of Frieza's body; small blast or an explosion of a planet? Think carefully now.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]He's easily top tier, you cannot list a single name because you know for a fact that he's top tier. Frieza is not an exception to anything. People with Frieza's showings are top tier in DC, get, over, it.

You still have not given a reason WHY he's top tier. You're just saying "he can destroy planets, he's top tier" basically. Why don't you actually be a bit more descriptive of his abilities and then MAYBE we can place him somewhere.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]
It's more reliable than hyperbolic statements from Superman which you take as the gospel.

Let's hear it then. Prove that it was hyperbolic.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]
Well, when you're kicking the crud out of Fighting Gods and the planets best fighters, I suppose that is an example of fighting skills.

Silly me for not absolutely spelling it out for you and hoping a Superman fan would not take the word destroying absolutely literally.

So now since he's fighting guys that he's obviously much stronger than, he got skills now? By that logic, Superman is more skilled than Batman and Wonder Woman.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]They have never shown to be above Frieza level, especially in hand to hand skills. You don't even know what level Frieza is in the first place, I always ask you to give me a solid name so we can compare and you refuse to do such, because you know for a fact that Frieza is easily a top tier.

What is so special about Frieza's hand-to-hand skills? Nothing. Hardly any fights in DBZ are based on skills, It's mainly just "who is more stronger". Also, I said it before and I'll say it again; you can't just say he's top tier and not give a good description of his powers. I know for a fact, however, he's nowhere near Superman's level. He's got more firepower but other than that, he's not fast, strong, or durable enough to be on Superman's level. It's that simple.

Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]Uub is the reincarnation of Kid Buu and was sufficiently powerful enough to inflict physical harm on Goku, fight at a high rate of speed AND knock Goku back like 10-15ft by merely yelling at him.

That's a pretty far cry from getting your ass kicked by Aquaman, Lex Luthor in battle armor and Batman with blackrock amping his strength.

Uub was inexperienced and didn't even know how to use his powers, which is MUCH different from Goku. If you got nothing but powers to refer to when talking about that fight, then you prove my point about how irrelevent skills are in DBZ.

Also, a PIS showing, a guy who uses his own weakness against Supes, and an amped human? That's suppose to ultimately prove that Supes is below Goku and Freiza? That's ridiculous. Why don't you ever mention the high showings?

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
Super Perfect Cell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Freeza 1st form. Freeza 1st form was able to destroy a planet with a blast from his finger as he showed in Bardock movie. Super Perfect Cell is far far superior in durability, power, speed. But what amaze me is, some people here classifies their energy level at same level. Even Superman is not reliable too. He said he can destroy planet but on the other hand he flies faster than light from Saturn to Moon and only manage to split the moon with his fist. Maybe not split the moon but he just made a fissure on the moon. Whatever it is, it's still interesting.

I'm not disputing the fact that Cell can destroy a planet. It's the solar system what I'm getting at.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I'm not disputing the fact that Cell can destroy a planet. It's the solar system what I'm getting at.

As I said before, Super Perfect Cell has more power, durability, and faster. If Freeza in 1st form was able to destroy a planet with a blast from his finger, Super Perfect Cell, who uses his full powered Kamehameha might do something much worse. His energy is much more powerful than Freeza's energy.

But, unless you think His energy level is the same with Freeza, OK. I won't say anything anymore.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
As I said before, Super Perfect Cell has more power, durability, and faster. If Freeza in 1st form was able to destroy a planet with a blast from his finger, Super Perfect Cell, who uses his full powered Kamehameha might do something much worse. His energy is much more powerful than Freeza's energy.

But, unless you think His energy level is the same with Freeza, OK. I won't say anything anymore.

But how much worse, though?