Originally posted by Cole Cash
Okay, how would Superman know he can destroy a planet? Has he ever done such himself? Because I'm PRETTY sure if I looked hard enough I could find scans of Superman claiming he doesn't know the full extent of his power himself. For all I know, the full extent of his power is sinking a suburb with a punch.
Not knowing the full extent of his power doesn't mean he doesn't know what he can do WITH his power. In fact, it could obviously imply that he can do more with it. Seeing that there's hardly at time he goes all out, it's hard to know what is the full extent of his power.
Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]The same thing you base your opinion on, it makes more sense to me. It makes more sense to me because the missing pieces of Frieza's body just so happened to be the parts that Goku hit with an energy beam and if the planet exploding caused the damage, then it should have just ashed his entire body.
Goku blasted Freiza's entire body with that blast, not part of it, thus it makes more sense that it was the explosion of the planet that destroyed parts of Freiza's body.
Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]
Durability is debunked? How? You downplaying surviving a planet exploding point blank in your face with you in the crust and dying?Strength is useless? Why? You don't like the fact that the high end Z characters were class 100 by the end of the Frieza saga? Tough cookie.
It's pretty freaking easy to rank Frieza in DC, just point out someone who you think Frieza's showings closest match and explain why you believe Frieza is on this person's level, I don't know why you want to pretend like this is Discrete Math or something.
That has more to do with Freiza's ability stay alive when most of his body parts are gone (like when his own disc attack cut him) whether him taking the explosion. So no, I don't count that as durability feat.
So knocking someone into a mountain suddenly makes you class 100? Sounds some stupid fanboy talk to me.
We have to come to conclusion of his powers in order to see where he ranks. We can't just base it on one feat and speculation. If that's all he's got, then he's extremely low. Sorry, but that's the way it is.
Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]I don't really care if Goku can destroy a planet or cannot when I see him capable of easily overpowering someone who can. I don't see Superman doing this, because Superman isn't nearly as powerful as Goku. Though, this isn't about Goku and Superman, this is about Frieza and Superman. The two are pretty much in the same weight class for power. If not, then tell me who Frieza would fall in line with. Aquaman? Firestorm? Batman? Who, who, who would be a good protagonist for Frieza.
It doesn't matter if Goku can beat someone who can destroy a planet, the fact remains that he's never done it and thus, we can't go by any statement that says he can. That's your logic. It's flawed, I know but that's what you're saying.
Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]Buu was created by magic to be a fighting/killing machine capable of learning any technique after seeing it once and mimicking a trained martial artists fighting style after beating them, he also gets more powerful by absorbing martial artists and I believe he even gets access to all their attacks. That just sounds like a cheesy 70's Karate Kid and the Legion villain.
You gotta also remember that he reverted back to Kid Buu, the original Buu, thus he doesn't have the skills of the martial artists he absorbed.
Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]Him fighting Goku with the only advantage belonging to the person who was more powerful at the moment.
Which proves my point; the fight wasn't based solely on skills, just who was the more stronger one.
Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]Their constant blocks, parries and utilization of high level martial arts tactics?
I'll let you in on a little something:
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/4214/superman20speed20vs20mongul202.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9558/supermanandmongul8pr.jpg
Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]I've already done such, but I will do it again.Frieza is capable of sinking islands and destroying mountains by punching people into them, the after shock of his punching force is sufficient to level houses and destroy villages and by the end of the Dragonball portion of the show, the high end characters had already reached what could be construed as Class 60-75 tons. Frieza is much stronger than this.
I don't recall any of that but still, that's nothing compared to Superman who during his fight with Darkseid, destroyed a planetoid, and even was wrecking a planet during his fight with Zod. So he's not Superman's level of strength, that's for sure.
Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]Let's start with, not regularly getting beat up by people slower than Captain America. That right there shows a considerably greater amount of speed and skill than what Superman shows me. Everytime I read a Superman comic, he's getting wailed on by a robot or hulking beast that couldn't lay a hand on Frieza. If Superman's so much faster than Frieza, then why do these things only happen to him and not Frieza/anyone in Z?
One reason is because Frieza never even fought someone on their level and two is because Superman tends to hold back. And please, next time when you debate this subject, don't just refer to low-end showings. Refer to others that high-end feats (which are way more consistent that his lower ones). Maybe you'd sound more fair.
Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]Doing all of that tells me he was unconsciously tapping into Kid Buu's power, skill, and speed without knowing it.
That doesn't mean he was fighting on the same level. Heck, why do you think Goku was fighting him a base form? Because Uub didn't know how to use his powers.
Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]He caught Raditz off guard with a sneak attack/sudden surge of power. He had to obtain a year's worth of survival training from the world's best martial artist and then needed to get pushed to his limit before putting up an assault on an exhausted Vegeta.And this is ignoring the fact that Saiyans are born as naturally good fighters without really needing any training.
It doesn't matter if he caught Raditz off guard, he still manage to injure him, something two experience fighters (Goku and Piccolo) weren't able to do.
Also, Gohan is half human, which is why he doesn't share the same passion for fighting like Goku does.
Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]Of course he's done the same thing before, Superman has thousands of comic appearances, it'd be pretty pathetic if he hasn't. But he doesn't do it at nearly a consistent enough rate for me to take it any more seriously than the fact that he's been knocked out by gas stations.
So you think his high-end feats are inconsistent now huh? If you wanna jump on how often something happens in character appearances, then Goku will need help every fight he's been in, otherwise, he loses. Hey it's what's commonly shown.
Originally posted by Cole Cash
[B]Please show ANY scan where Goku gets hit by people as slow as Batman, Lex Luthor, etc.There doesn't need to be an explanation to the situation, Superman flies in, gets roughed up a bit, and outslugs his opponent eventually. The only people that have explaining to do, are the ones claiming Superman is faster than Frieza and Goku, when you can't find a single instance of that happening to either of them. Oh, and they usually talk nonsense about light speed too. As if Superman ever blitzes anyone at light speed.
Once again, you're referring to low-end feats. It's a shame, really.
Oh yes, there does need to be an explanation or at least, the whole fights should be posted. Just posting one part of the fight isn't really saying anything. If you had nothing to hide, then you would post the whole fights. Also, there's plenty of FTL feats for Superman. That alone puts him above both Goku and Freiza and he's FTL speed in his fights before (such as Wonder Woman and Darkseid). There.
