Thanos with IG vs White Crown Phoenix

Your point about the M’kraan crystal has been defeated previously.

a) The crystal was retconned to multiversal status over a decade ago in Legion Quest. That boosts Jeans feat. Like it or not you must accept it. Saying that when Jean contained it it was just universal just doesn’t cut it. A retcon means we’re supposed to take the idea it promotes as having always been the case.

b)The X-men aided Jean spiritually, they gave her moral support. She used Storm and Corsairs life forces to bond her to reality so she could perform her task, as she was performing it it said the X-mens SPIRITS were with her helping. It was moral support; she achieved the feat with the power of friendship backing and encouraging her.

Even if I was to play along with your illogical interpretation, how big a part do you believe Storm, Corsair, Colossus, Wolverine and Nightcrawler played in the containing of a multiversal power? That team could barely contain a city, let alone an infinite cosmic power.

Cant be bothered to go into the whole Feron thing again. You got assassinated in that big debate we had on that matter and I really feel no need to go over it again. Either way the point is irrelevant to what we’re talking about right now. The scans of that scene were posted only to highlight the point about the firebird being an avatar NOT for you to go off on a tangent in an attempt to take away attention from your weak argument. Stick to the topic, KAY? 😱

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Magus manipulated two universes ? i didn't know that...

No Handsome, I was referring to how Magus stopped the Ultamate Nullifier with an Incomplete IG...Ultamate Nullifier has the power to destroy many many universes. 😉

Thats the point. He didnt. 😉

The Ultimate Nullifier can destroy many universes my friends, as can many other universal powers, t crux of the matter is that it can only take out one at a time. UNIVERSAL. The point is stated in Abraxas' bio, The UNS handbook entry this month and on panel. Because of its power it is potentially a threat to the multiverse as would anything that can wipe out a whole universe, however it cannot wipe out multiple universes simultaneously and has never been shown to be able to do that on panel.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Wow, GS, you're back.

And too celibrate, you showed great skill in making meaningless scans into an argument so effectivly that people actualy thought they constituted an argument for Phoenix>IG.

To be fair though, Mr.M Isn't any better, posting pages and pages of crap in order to boost his cred.

But GS, you have to realize that almost every scan you post is meaningless, since not one of them shows Phoenix with anything close to IG level. You have TWO arguments that help your case, and only two.

One based on Here comes tommorow, the other on those Abstracts bowing to Jean.

That's IT. Focus on those, and then this debate can be shifted to things that are actualy RELEVANT! And then, THEN, I'll try to counter your stuff. Kay? KAY?

Meaningless how? The scans ive posted in an effort to illustrate Jeans greater power the IG are of her performing feats that as far as we've seen in continuity are beyond any the IG has pulled off. Beating down aspects of a universe is not as impressive as manipulating said universe in the palm of your hand atom by atom.

Again its like comparing someone overpowering in battle every hero on earth, compared to someone manipulating at an atomic level all that is the earth and said heroes in the palm of their hand and then materializing said planet and everything it contains in another location intact.

Based on those two feats its quite clear who as far as we've seen wields the greater power.

On top of that, Adam Warlock long time possessor of an Infinity Gem and one time wielder of the Infinity Gauntlet stated that the gems powers derive from the Big Bang, making it universal in nature and power source. That goes along nicely with its very universal feats. 😉

That's a WHAT IF.

An Alternate Reality, NOT 616.

And Jean DIDN'T do jack, Jean WAS ENGULFED and DESTROYED by the Phoenix Force.

Nice try pino.

AND since it was the Phoenix Force, it's inconsequential since:

In it's Natural State the Phoenix is UNAWARE of it's Own Existence

The Phoenix Force has NO CONSCIOUSNESS in it's Natural State

In VERSUS thread, the Phoenix Force is MEANINGLESS!

SInce it's UNAWARE and UNCONSCIOUS in it's NATURAL STATE!

So AGAIN,

AHHHAHAHAHAHA Ha,

home boy was incognito hard at work trying to raise the Phoenix a notch,

only to have his dreams FLUSHED! 😆

HOWS THIS FOR DECEPTIONS MANORASTROMAN!

AGAIN,

you play yourself coming up in here accusing people of "hypocrisy"

Throwing up a bunch of Scans that mean NOTHING.
Same ol' thing TALK TALK TALK...

You should of stayed in whatever cave you dug yourself in:

AGAIN:

This is definitely the biggest BETRAYAL of trust ever committed on KMC forums

He even threw in an extra close up

You CUT OUT the STRANGER from the Scan to make it appear as though they are bowing to JEAN.

It was this fallacy that got that rumor started. (wonder by who?)

On the Scan that never existed....

let me break it down for you.

Scan 1:

Here Eternity is explaining to Jean how the Universe works and how it has lead to US....

Already proved this many times over... the Phoenix Force in it's Natural State is the SPARK that ignites the natural Big Bang of a Universe, which recycles it (a self perpetuating process)

Phoenix is NOT the Big Bang and the scan clearly tells us the Celestials SEEDED the Universe with Creation and the Celestials were created by Eternity.

Scan 2:

Ok, here Eternity says, "like Galactus was the sole survivor...so shall Humanity Begin the End, End the Beginning."

NOTHING about Phoenix.

"Oblivion will embrace all...creation will Renew itself"...(no need for Phoenix)

"And therein lies the Stranger's conceit"...

Ok, I'm sure you see now that the STRANGER WANTS to BE ABLE to do... what Humans WILL BE ABLE to do one day.

(Which is WHY they are BOWING to HIM in the scan)

because one day WE (Humans), will NOT need the Abstracts or even the Living Tribunal...

they will be as NOTHING to US (Humans).

"He plans to spark Humanity's Evolution Now...to Engulf the cosmos."

How does he PLAN to do that?....

AT one time some even thought it would be with the power of Phoenix.

But I think not.

Scan 3 & 4:

The Stranger was going to use 5 (FIVE) individuals to accomplish his "Spark in Humanity's Evolution Now... to Engulf the cosmos"

Marko, Jean, Iceman, Toad, Mystique.

More Proof it was FIVE individuals the Stranger was going to use to "Spark Humanity's Evolution Now...to Engulf the cosmos"...

NOT Phoenix...NOT PHOENIX AT ALL....Jean didn't even have the Phoenix Force during this time.

"To pluck FIVE representative Earthlings to SERVE as his Evolutionary Vanguards"

notworthy------------------>nono

You PLAYED yourself,

your in NO position to calling ANYONE a hypocrite.

Handled previously. Counter my points, dont repost sonny. You have a tendancy to do that when youre stumped. 🙂

It was in an alternate reality, my friend, so why did you post it in the first place as if it was relevant to this reality? Oh i see its fine for you to do it until the point youre trying to make gets quashed!! 😂

AGAIN,

WITHOUT the INTERFACE ALIGNMENT the Phoenix Force would have NEVER, I mean NEVER been able to project the Tower!

End of story.

nice try, you may fool the innocents like Mano but uhh, the rest are more aware to who you are.

This is before the Phoenix even came into the picture: (you know, the SCAN HE LEFT OUT)

It clearly says "when a series of interfaces across the Multiverse were aligned, the localized energy fields merged... to Create an Energy Matrix."

The Energy fields merge ON THEIR OWN... and the Interfaces across the Mulitverse Align BY THEMSELVES...

AT the MOMENT of ALIGNMENT, THEN Feron called Phoenix to project the Tower",

a less than monumental feat... considering it was the Energy Matrix (ON IT"S OWN) that allows simultaneous existence in the Multiverse when the Interfaces Across are Aligned, Which Also happens ON it's OWN.....

Phoenix made a duplicate of the original Tower and it simultaneously duplicated itself across the Multi-verse BECAUSE of the INTERFACE ALIGNMENT!

Bottomline: Without the Interface Alignment, this Feat would Never exist.

Youre reposting the exact same post. Trying to hide youre thrashing under a bombardment of reposted waffle. Youre so transparent Emmie. 🙂

Jean is the Phoenix in human form. In those scans the Phoenix never destroyed her you buffoon lol, Jean IS the Phoenix lol. The Phoenix engulfed her i.e the dark side of her power took over, it consumed her. The same occurrence is referred to many a time during the DP Saga and is used frequently across Phoenix appearances.

The Phoenix is a power that among other things embodies emotion and passion, its avatars must maintain strict control of their emotions or they lose control, hence Dark Phoenix in 616 and Dark Phoenix in that What If.

As for your point about the Phoenix Forces natural state:

a) That is only the universal manifestation being referred to, we have before that account (Classic X-men) and after that account (New X-men) seen references to a Force that simultaneously exists and operates outside of reality as well. To sum it up not the totality of the Force being talked about.

b) The Force isn’t limited to that natural state. It can and has as we’ve seen on panel acted independently of a human avatar and manifested as the Firebird to perform functions, therefore your point about the Force itself being exempt from versus matches is void.

Also, during that What If it was the avatar through which the Force was manifesting its power, the avatar IS the Force personified and through said avatar the universes was destroyed on panel.

As for your X-men forever comments, (or should I say WWK’s cos that certainly didn’t originate from you son.)

We are on these forums to debate and learn from each other, as such over time opinions on subjects change after hearing out the opinions of others and reading new material. Acknowledge that.

You are quoting from posts I participated in over year ago and trying to present those comments as representative of my stance on the matter now. It is NOT. Since that thread I have debated about the subject many a time and my view on the matter has been different. Stop trying to detract away from the fact that your fallacy has been clearly highlighted by me. You had at hand instances showing Phoenix consuming a reality and yet you chose to keep that to yourself whilst still trying to discredit Phoenix on the forums saying that despite its feats as it hasn’t destroyed a universe on panel it can’t. You’re ridiculously lame.

The Stranger found out that during the creation cycle, a race would evolve that would supplant the abstracts roles in the new reality and that this process would bring about the end of reality. This race as revealed was humanity, more specifically mutants.

The Stranger planned to use mutants to subvert and jumpstart this evolutionary process at an exponentially increased rate and as a result cause the destruction of universe and leave him without competition and the sole survivor of a new universe that the Phoenix would birth in its role as the Resurrection Force.

What the Stranger didn’t realize however was that Eternity and the other abstracts were long aware of this process and that they had in fact encouraged it as it was a part of the natural order, with Eternity having the Celestials seed races around the universe with the potential to be this end determining race, however they were against the Stranger perverting it to his own ends and so asked the five mutants to stop him.

What you are failing to realize is that the Strangers plans were JUST PLANS. It’s irrelevant that his plans didn’t involve the Phoenix. The Phoenix had already played its role; it enabled the Strangers plans to be viable in the first place.

Phoenix NEEDED ALL the X-Men to HELP her REPAIR the Network of interlocking Stasis Fields that NEUTRALIZES the power of the N-Galaxy!

ALONE she COULDN'T DO IT, end of story!

When the Lattice of the Mkraan Crystal was REPAIRED by Phoenix, she NEEDED the rest of the X-Men to do it

Here Phoenix Tries to FIX the Lattice Alone

"But it's NOWHERE NEAR good enough"

and Phoenix does NOT "contain" the power of the N-Galaxy that does the destroying.

"a Network of interlocking Stasis Fields NEUTRALIZES the power of the N-Galaxy"....she was only able to knit the interlocking Stasis Fields back together

Phoenix even says, their "ONLY Hope is to Knit the Lattice Back Together BEFORE it PASSES the Point of No Return"

In the NATURAL SCHEME OF THINGS, i.e. what ACTUALLY happens during the creation cycle is that Phoenix is the end and the beginning of the cycle.

As stated in X-men Forever.

In Uncanny X-men:

As stated in alternate realities:

The Neutron Galaxy is the Force that destroys a Universe

HELD in Check by a Series of Interlocking Stasis Fields

"Phoenix flew into the Energy Matrix And, with the X-MEN'S HELP, knitted the Fields back together again"

Actually Phoenix was getting ABSORBED by the N-Galaxy

It is the Big Bang that births reality and therefore the power that fuels the universe, its very life force:

The sum and substance of all that lives by canon and therefore the power behind all of life’s processes such as evolution, X-men Forever’s fundamental theme and the thing that the Strangers plans revolved around, the thing he was hoping to use in order to destroy the abstracts and the universe. Phoenixes connection with evolution is canon, with it having its avatars manifest to perpetuate this process, to “burn away what doesn’t work” and to eradicate evolutionary dead ends whilst it itself is the life force of reality.

With all that in mind, your attempts to discredit are really quite rubbish.

Your point about the M’kraan crystal has been defeated previously.

a) The crystal was retconned to multiversal status over a decade ago in Legion Quest. That boosts Jeans feat. Like it or not you must accept it. Saying that when Jean contained it it was just universal just doesn’t cut it. A retcon means we’re supposed to take the idea it promotes as having always been the case.

b)The X-men aided Jean spiritually, they gave her moral support. She used Storm and Corsairs life forces to bond her to reality so she could perform her task, as she was performing it it said the X-mens SPIRITS were with her helping. It was moral support; she achieved the feat with the power of friendship backing and encouraging her.

Even if I was to play along with your illogical interpretation, how big a part do you believe Storm, Corsair, Colossus, Wolverine and Nightcrawler played in the containing of a multiversal power? That team could barely contain a city, let alone an infinite cosmic power.

Cant be bothered to go into the whole Feron thing again. You got assassinated in that big debate we had on that matter and I really feel no need to go over it again. Either the point is irrelevant to what we’re talking about right now. The scans of that scene were posted only to highlight the point about the firebird being an avatar NOT for you to go off on a tangent in an attempt to take away attention from your weak argument. Stick to the topic, KAY?

With the Life-Force of ALL the X-Men she Anchors herself to Reality, to avoid being ABSORBED

"the Patterns of her life of the X-Men's LIVES, BECOME ONE with the Lattice"

"For ALL Her awesome Power, She CAN'T DO IT ALONE"

"AND THEN SUDDENLY", The SPIRITS of the X-MEN are WITH HER, GIVING of THEMSELVES AS STORM and CORSAIR GAVE"

ALL the X-Men gave their LIFE-FORCE to help REPAIR the Lattice.

you are willfully misinterpreting that lattice feat.