Biblical God, physical body or merely a spirit?

Started by Regret7 pages

Biblical God, physical body or merely a spirit?

I do not believe the text of the Bible necessitates God not having a physical form. Using the Bible prove that he does not.

This verse is not support:

John 4: 24
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Because, if it is stating that God does not have a physical form, then it also states that we must worship him in spirit, if man can worship in spirit, man is a spirit, and by the same logic man does not have a physical form. Also, as support for this verse not supporting God being merely a spirit:

1 Cor. 15: 45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Zech. 12: 1
1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Num. 27: 16, 18
16 Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,

Man is a spirit. Saying this does not deny the physical aspect of man, thus saying "God is a Spirit", does not deny the possibility of a physical aspect of the Biblical God.

Re: Biblical God, physical body or merely a spirit?

Originally posted by Regret
I do not believe the text of the Bible necessitates God not having a physical form. Using the Bible prove that he does not.

This verse is not support:

John 4: 24
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Because, if it is stating that God does not have a physical form, then it also states that we must worship him in spirit, if man can worship in spirit, man is a spirit, and by the same logic man does not have a physical form. Also, as support for this verse not supporting God being merely a spirit:

1 Cor. 15: 45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Zech. 12: 1
1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Num. 27: 16, 18
16 Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,

Man is a spirit. Saying this does not deny the physical aspect of man, thus saying "God is a Spirit", does not deny the possibility of a physical aspect of the Biblical God.

You are not rightly dividing the Word of Truth. God does not have a physical body (first of all because the Bible says so) because He does not need one. God exists in the spirit realm; therefore, it would not be necessary for Him to have a physical body. We have physical bodies because we exist in the material world or realm. We live in a physical environment. But God does not. Physical things are physical and spiritual things are spiritual. Both have substance in their respective environments. God has a spiritual body with spiritual substance or spiritual corporeality. We have a physical body with physical substance or physical corporeality. This is all there is to it. Yes, we are created in God's image and likeness and we are spirits but in order to live in this natural world, we need a physical body. Why do you think Jesus was born into the world? He needed a physical body just like us in order to die for our sins. He could not die for our sins in Heaven because Heaven is populated by spirits.

"God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 4:24

* Christ Himself said this and you don't believe, my friend? what is the explanation of Christ about what a spirit is?

"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have."
Luke 24:39

* Christ also said that a spirit has no flesh and bones... humans have flesh and bones... humans, in its entirety, are not spirits...

* humans, however, have spirits but are NOT spirits... that's why Christians are commanded by Christ to worship God in spirit and in truth...

"Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."
Matthew 26:41

* see? humans have flesh and humans also have spirit... 😉

Everything is energy.................as told in quantum mechanics..........give it all the names you want.............LOL

I am going to side with Origen on this one - if God wants a body he would have one. If he needs a human face he can have one.

And for that he was declared heretical - God is pure spirit they said, and it is nigh blasphemy to soil his image with a something profane like a material body.

But, I would say if I believed - this is God we are talking about. He can have what he wants.

Originally posted by peejayd
"God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 4:24

* Christ Himself said this and you don't believe, my friend? what is the explanation of Christ about what a spirit is?

"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have."
Luke 24:39

* Christ also said that a spirit has no flesh and bones... humans have flesh and bones... humans, in its entirety, are not spirits...

* humans, however, have spirits but are NOT spirits... that's why Christians are commanded by Christ to worship God in spirit and in truth...

"Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."
Matthew 26:41

* see? humans have flesh and humans also have spirit... 😉

I suspect that this post is directed at me right Peejayd or is it addressed to someone else? In case it is meant for me I will respond accordingly.

For the umpteenth time pal you are not rightly dividing the Word of Truth. I have never seen a person so sincerely wrong in all my life. You seem to know what the Scriptures say friend but when it comes to accurately understanding it, this is where you fail--but not irreparably. Peejayd do you recall our past discussions on this very subject? Neither of us saw eye to eye on this subject. I furnished a plethora of Scriptures to substantiate what the Bible reveals (not my interpretation of what the Bible reveals). However, we do not need to fall out about this subject. This subject falls under the category of being a non-essential i.e. whether you believe that we are spirits or not will not affect your salvation (if you are saved). Peejayd I do not wish to rebut you at length so I will keep this post relatively succinct. From past experience it is evident that you do not rely 100% on what the Bible reveals about certain subjects, but instead you tenaciously hold on to your beliefs although they contradict the Bible. Regret follows in your shoes. For instance, I have provided a preponderance of Scriptures that unequivocally prove that Jesus is God and not "a" God as you assert. There are three subjects that we do not agree on. First, I have affirmed that we are spirits (this is the aspect of our three-fold nature that is created in the image and likeness of God. We are spirits, we have souls [the soul comprises the mind, will, emotions, and personality], and the spirit and our soul live in our physical earth suit [i.e. our physical body]). Second, I have declared that Jesus is God not a "God." I don't mean that Jesus is the Father per se, I mean that He is the Second Person in the Godhead. The Godhead consists of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. These Three (Persons) are one God. So it is accurate to say that the Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. I have conveyed that these Three are co-equal in every way. Third, I have stated that we are not saved by our good moral lives. Salvation is a gift. A gift cannot be earned because that is what a gift connotes. The only thing that you can do with a gift is accept it. The Bible has a lot to say about salvation being a gift and about it being something that cannot be earned. You simply need faith in Jesus Christ for salvation to be saved. Your good moral life should be a reflection of the change that has occurred on the inside of you (if you are saved). But your works will not ever save you. Faith and works don't save you. I have already explained what James 2:14-26 means. The Bible does not contradict itself and God is not the Author of confusion. For the Bible to say one thing in one or more verses but then say that exact opposite in other verses would constitute confusion. The Bible does not do that. l will end on this note.

Re: Re: Biblical God, physical body or merely a spirit?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You are not rightly dividing the Word of Truth. God does not have a physical body (first of all because the Bible says so) because He does not need one. God exists in the spirit realm; therefore, it would not be necessary for Him to have a physical body. We have physical bodies because we exist in the material world or realm. We live in a physical environment. But God does not. Physical things are physical and spiritual things are spiritual. Both have substance in their respective environments. God has a spiritual body with spiritual substance or spiritual corporeality. We have a physical body with physical substance or physical corporeality. This is all there is to it. Yes, we are created in God's image and likeness and we are spirits but in order to live in this natural world, we need a physical body. Why do you think Jesus was born into the world? He needed a physical body just like us in order to die for our sins. He could not die for our sins in Heaven because Heaven is populated by spirits.
Many assumptions with no real Biblical support for the idea that God does not have a physical form.

God doesn't need a body. What's god gonna do with it..........But if he wants to I suppose he could.....or she could.........Ok, IT could.........IT could be a dog if it wanted too.........A tree..........Katsup bottle...........

In fact IT already is.

Originally posted by peejayd
"God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 4:24

* Christ Himself said this and you don't believe, my friend? what is the explanation of Christ about what a spirit is?

"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have."
Luke 24:39

* Christ also said that a spirit has no flesh and bones... humans have flesh and bones... humans, in its entirety, are not spirits...

* humans, however, have spirits but are NOT spirits... that's why Christians are commanded by Christ to worship God in spirit and in truth...

"Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."
Matthew 26:41

* see? humans have flesh and humans also have spirit... 😉

"God is a Spirit" does not delimit the possibility of God having a physical form. Man is a spirit and man is a body, is he not? Or is the spirit of man in no manner a part of man? It is only interpretation that supports a conclusive stance on the subject, not the text of the Bible.

Originally posted by debbiejo
God doesn't need a body. What's god gonna do with it..........But if he wants to I suppose he could.....or she could.........Ok, IT could.........IT could be a dog if it wanted too.........A tree..........Katsup bottle...........

In fact IT already is.

That is not the point, the discussion here is whether or not the Bible is definitive on the subject of a physical form. Also, the Biblical God is male, not female or it, this is absolute in the Bible. The title of the thread delimits the subject to the Biblical God, not other conceptions of God.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
First, I have affirmed that we are spirits...

If man is a spirit, the verse stating "God is a Spirit" does not delimit God to only being a Spirit. Show some Biblical support for the idea that God is only a Spirit.

Originally posted by Regret
That is not the point, the discussion here is whether or not the Bible is definitive on the subject of a physical form. Also, the Biblical God is male, not female or it, this is absolute in the Bible. The title of the thread delimits the subject to the Biblical God, not other conceptions of God.
Elohim is used in many ways with certain verbs and be male, female, or plural.

Re: Re: Biblical God, physical body or merely a spirit?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You are not rightly dividing the Word of Truth. God does not have a physical body (first of all because the Bible says so) because He does not need one. God exists in the spirit realm; therefore, it would not be necessary for Him to have a physical body. We have physical bodies because we exist in the material world or realm. We live in a physical environment. But God does not. Physical things are physical and spiritual things are spiritual. Both have substance in their respective environments. God has a spiritual body with spiritual substance or spiritual corporeality. We have a physical body with physical substance or physical corporeality. This is all there is to it. Yes, we are created in God's image and likeness and we are spirits but in order to live in this natural world, we need a physical body. Why do you think Jesus was born into the world? He needed a physical body just like us in order to die for our sins. He could not die for our sins in Heaven because Heaven is populated by spirits.

This kind of principle seemingly teaches us that the mind(spiritual) or the "true entity" and body(physical) or "all phenomana" are two distinct realms or entities. This philosophies is , thus, subdivided by the Materialists doctrine which claims that only the physical or material world, which can be measured or observed, is the true "reality," whereas some spiritual traditions see the physical world as mere illusion--or something which exists in order to be transcended--and the invisible, mental realm as the ultimate truth in which these teaching or faith representing a still-shallow and provisional body of philosophy, expounded that all phenomena (individual life) derived from the mind (cosmic life). In this case, the mind is like the earth, while all phenomena are like the plants growing in it. According to this paradigm, the mind and phenomena are separate entities.

Buddhism views life as dual in nature, as the unity of both the physical and the spiritual. All things, whether material or spiritual, seen or unseen, are manifestations of the same ultimate universal law(truth or reality) or source of life . The physical and spiritual aspects of our lives, although separate classes of phenomena, are completely inseparable and of equal importance. The Buddhist principle "The true entity" of "all phenomena" does not,however, mean that the true entity is contained within all phenomena or vice versa, nor does it assume the existence of some being that exists beyond all universal phenomena and governs them. Western philosophers and other non-Buddhist thinkers and systems of thought have long sought some truth or essence either beyond or behind phenomena. The Christian idea of an absolute God as the creator of the world is a good example of how these other philosophies removed the ultimate truth from all real phenomena. The inevitable result was a split between God and man or between Creator and creature. Churches and priests took over as the "authorized" intermediaries between the two, and they grew so powerful that the people were treated like vassals.

Buddhism is totally different. The Buddhist finds truth in reality itself; he discovers the underlying truth by steadily and carefully observing man and the things around him. "The true entity of all phenomena" is, therefore, a philosophy that sees into the real aspect of every reality in the universe, especially human life. All phenomena and the true entity are "two but not two," for one cannot exist without the other. This is what binds the true entity and all phenomena together, making them one and the same, even though they may seem to be different. All phenomena --- the sun and the moon as they rise and set, the ebb and flow of the seas, the bending of trees before the wind --- in the eye of Buddhism all appear as the action of [mystic] Law or mystic truth.

The Judeo-Christian religions may assert that their supreme beings do not appear in any real form, but the Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra proclaims that there is NO true entity outside of phenomena.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Elohim is used in many ways with certain verbs and be male, female, or plural.
Perhaps, but "God the Father" limits it a bit.

Re: Re: Re: Biblical God, physical body or merely a spirit?

Originally posted by mahasattva
This kind of principle seemingly teaches us that the mind(spiritual) or the [B]"true entity" and body(physical) or "all phenomana" are two distinct realms or entities. This philosophies is , thus, subdivided by the Materialists doctrine which claims that only the physical or material world, which can be measured or observed, is the true "reality," whereas some spiritual traditions see the physical world as mere illusion--or something which exists in order to be transcended--and the invisible, mental realm as the ultimate truth in which these teaching or faith representing a still-shallow and provisional body of philosophy, expounded that all phenomena (individual life) derived from the mind (cosmic life). In this case, the mind is like the earth, while all phenomena are like the plants growing in it. According to this paradigm, the mind and phenomena are separate entities.

Buddhism views life as dual in nature, as the unity of both the physical and the spiritual. All things, whether material or spiritual, seen or unseen, are manifestations of the same ultimate universal law(truth or reality) or source of life . The physical and spiritual aspects of our lives, although separate classes of phenomena, are completely inseparable and of equal importance. The Buddhist principle "The true entity" of "all phenomena" does not,however, mean that the true entity is contained within all phenomena or vice versa, nor does it assume the existence of some being that exists beyond all universal phenomena and governs them. Western philosophers and other non-Buddhist thinkers and systems of thought have long sought some truth or essence either beyond or behind phenomena. The Christian idea of an absolute God as the creator of the world is a good example of how these other philosophies removed the ultimate truth from all real phenomena. The inevitable result was a split between God and man or between Creator and creature. Churches and priests took over as the "authorized" intermediaries between the two, and they grew so powerful that the people were treated like vassals.

Buddhism is totally different. The Buddhist finds truth in reality itself; he discovers the underlying truth by steadily and carefully observing man and the things around him. "The true entity of all phenomena" is, therefore, a philosophy that sees into the real aspect of every reality in the universe, especially human life. All phenomena and the true entity are "two but not two," for one cannot exist without the other. This is what binds the true entity and all phenomena together, making them one and the same, even though they may seem to be different. All phenomena --- the sun and the moon as they rise and set, the ebb and flow of the seas, the bending of trees before the wind --- in the eye of Buddhism all appear as the action of [mystic] Law or mystic truth.

The Judeo-Christian religions may assert that their supreme beings do not appear in any real form, but the Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra proclaims that there is NO true entity outside of phenomena. [/B]

God in the Biblical sense is not entirely the same as God's power. To compare Biblical religions with Buddhism is fairly simple.

Buddhism believes in an energy/force/law, something anyway, exactly what is irrelevant to the comparison, that is the essence of existence. For Biblical religions this is the power of God, in my religion, the Priesthood, Biblical belief merely has a source from which this essence flows, where to my understanding Buddhism has this essence as self existing and without a source. If there were a single source of the essence of existence in Buddhism that would be the equivalent to God. God is merely a variable that does not exist in the Buddhist belief. In Buddhism, without this central direction, man must learn how to live in harmony with the essence of existence without aid from a divine source of instruction, Biblical religion has a divine being that instructs on how to achieve harmony with this essence.

Originally posted by Regret
Perhaps, but "God the Father" limits it a bit.
I'd rather go by the original language and what was meant by it.....As for Father, you must remember that it was a mans world, and the word Papa was just to say god could be familiar with you....

besides the word Elohim was also put with a femanine verb.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I'd rather go by the original language and what was meant by it.....As for Father, you must remember that it was a mans world, and the word Papa was just to say god could be familiar with you....
Regardless, the Bible uses the term "Father", and the Christian Bible describes God in that manner. Your belief as to the Christian Bible is not being discussed, the God presented therein is.

Originally posted by Regret
Regardless, the Bible uses the term "Father", and the Christian Bible describes God in that manner. Your belief as to the Christian Bible is not being discussed, the God presented therein is.
I AM discussing the Christian god........It's Elohim.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I AM discussing the Christian god........It's Elohim.
God the Father is the God we are discussing, Christians believe Elohim to be God the Father. Do you disagree that NT reference to God the Father is in reference to Elohim?

While the words El, Elohim, and eloah are clearly related, with the word El being the stem, it is uncertain whether the word Elohim is derived from El through eloah. Moreover, the word eloah is arguably feminine. If this is true, some have suggested that the word Elohim is the masculine plural of a feminine noun, used as a singular. This would imply indeterminacy in both number and gender. However, this is speculative and confusing, although consistent with many Christian views of the Godhead.

The meaning of Elohim is further complicated by the fact that it is used to describe the spirit of the dead prophet Samuel, raised by Saul in 1 Samuel 28:13. The witch of Endor tells Saul that she sees 'gods' (elohim) coming up out of the earth; this seems to indicate that the term was indeed used simply to mean something like 'divine beings' in ancient Israel.

The Hebrews had three common names of God, El, Elohim, and Eloah; besides, they had the proper name Yahweh. Nestle is authority for the statement that Yahweh occurs about six thousand times in the Old Testament, while all the common names of God taken together do not occur half as often. The name Elohim is found 2570 times; Eloah, 57 times

Actually gods name in the bible is EL...