Biblical God, physical body or merely a spirit?

Started by Regret7 pages

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So ultamately you thnk I am [b]lying ?

Why would I ? I have no reason to. I am not trying to justify my experience or orientation what-so-ever. You honestly beleive that If my sexual attractions were my choice, I wouldn't just ADMIT IT ?

As if I didn't have the guts or something 🙄
I have faced bigotry many many times, and I never felt the need to lie. Not then and not now.

You claim that you know a lot about psychology and neurology through years and years of study, and therefore you know for a FACT that I chose my sexuality. You claim to know about the inner workings of my mind and my being.

You also claim that you know me better than I know myself !

So If I studied the Mormon religion for years, and then I read a biography about you and analyzed it for years, does that mean I would somehow know the truth about you ?

Would I be able to determine your entirety and the workings of your mind from reading the subject of you for years ? Would I have Regret all figured out from studying his biography and religion?

If not, then how do you imagine that you KNOW for a fact that I am Gay by choice, and have somehow changed my own desires ? How would you know for certain the true workings of my own mind, especially better than I would ? [/B]


No, you might not be lying, but you might be lying, I do not know, and no one can know absolutely. Perhaps you are lying and not knowing it, perhaps you are absolutely right. I do not know, but personal claims prove nothing. Scientifically speaking there is no conclusive evidence as to whether homosexuality is learned or genetically determined behavior. Even if you did not make a choice, your experiences throughout life could have led to determining your sexual preference. There are a large number of possible explanations for perception of a lack of choice in the matter, there are a large number of possible motivations for stating that the sexual orientation was chosen or not, there are an enormous number of possible explanations for homosexual behavior, and no method for deciding which is correct as of today. Regardless of your personal belief, you may not even be accurate in claiming that you did not decide your sexuality, perhaps you made minor choices between behaviors that led to homosexuality being a given, perhaps the choices were of no necessary relation to sexuality, who knows, the issue is that without a complete history of you individually one cannot know whether your sexuality was learned or genetic. This is fact. I do not claim that you are dishonest, I claim that it is entirely possible that you may perceive a lack of choice, when such may have been present had you come into contact with different experience and/or different consequences. Perhaps the choice was removed from you by external factors including possible interaction with other individuals from the point of your birth, there is no discounting the possibility. The notion of the individual existing in a vacuum and having choice that is not nearly absolutely dictated by history of experience, including all interactions with others, is a fallacy. No individual makes any choice absolutely naive.

I do not claim to know anyone, in fact I believe the opposite to be true, I believe that no man can know another. I believe the assumption that anyone is the same mentally as anyone else is a belief quite probably in error. All anyone has as to evidence concerning the internal, covert, behavior is their external, overt, behavior. This is all a logical individual can truly know of another.

It is my belief that experience and history decided your sexuality, if not choice. I do not believe that sexuality is decided by genetics. I do not claim to know this absolutely, I believe it to be the case. Evidence to a genetic cause for the behavior is severely lacking, and as such the belief in a genetic causal component must be viewed with skepticism.

Originally posted by Regret
It is my belief that experience and history decided your sexuality, if not choice. I do not believe that sexuality is decided by genetics. I do not claim to know this absolutely, I believe it to be the case. Evidence to a genetic cause for the behavior is severely lacking, and as such the belief in a genetic causal component must be viewed with skepticism.

For the sake of getting back on topic, I will make this short and final:

I never said Homosexuality was genetic. What I said what is it not a choice, atleast not in my case. I strongly beleive that environmental, physiological, and mental factors contribute to everyone's sexuality, not just my own, but yours as well.

If the choice is one that I am unaware of, then it is NOT truly a choice, is it ?

You do not choose your attractions though. Your behavior yes. But not your attractions. I was Bisexual before I lost my Virginity. On that, I assure you, I give you my absolute word, I swear on everything I hold dear. I know that means nothing to you, but I am emphasizing how serious I am on that claim.

It's a shame people's minds cannot link. Because of this, we rely on our own Biases, and religions that promote closed mindedness (which they very much do, including your own) not only promote the disunity that exists among people with these social differences, but stops social progress as well.

We are very far away from becoming ONE united people, and I stronly beleive that religion is one of the major factors responsible, despite its attempt to unite.

Originally posted by Regret
While there are alterations and errors within the text of the Bible, it does still hold value in what exists that is correct. Is the entire text the same as the original writers wrote it? No. Many things have been left out, and some things have been translated in specific manners to fit popular belief at the time of translation. Thus the Bible is the word of God insofar as it has been translated correctly.

* technology today is very advanced, we can distinguish things written in the original manuscript and those which are not...

Originally posted by Regret
Modern Prophets speak on authority given by God. They do not speak on their own authority.

* do you have any proof that those "prophets" you claim really speak things from God? or are you just hallucinating?

Originally posted by Regret
The verse you quote does not necessarily speak as to the Bible. It states "if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you." What "they preached" not what was written, this verse does not necessarily refer to the Bible, much of their preaching is not contained in the Bible, only what was deemed important a hundred years later and that has been cannibalized over the past two Milena. Regardless, nothing the LDS prophets teach is contrary to the teachings found in the Bible. They may be contrary to what you believe is the interpretation of the Bible, but not to the actual text.

* preaching = written... what was written does not contradict what they preached... what they preached does not contradict what was written...

"So then, brethren, stand firm, and hold fast the instructions which ye have been taught, whether by word or by our letter."
II Thessalonians 2:15

* actually, it is YOUR interpretation and YOUR kind of logic that misleads you in understanding the Bible... just an example: in John 4:24, it says that God is a spirit, but you claim that God is NOT ONLY a spirit... see? that is blatantly contradicting what was written! and with that kind of logic, you overlooked the supporting verses i gave to prove that God is only a spirit -> Psalms 90:2 says God is God from eternity to eternity; James 1:17 says God cannot change... the only argument you presented was that the Bible never said anything about God not having physical body... which is utterly irrelevant and obviously NOT credible as a stand...

Originally posted by Regret
Christ also fell under that cloud when he preached teachings that the Jews did not believe were in the Torah. His statements, also, were considered contrary to the word of God.

* you obviously did not understand the lifestory of Christ... His teachings are the beginning of a transition, He changed, amended and perfected the laws of the Old Testament...

Originally posted by Regret
Sorry, you fit with the pharisees and Sadducee's that condemned Christ. You have your view and will hold to it until you die, no matter your error.

* sorry, too... you don't understand a thing about it... in Christianity, there is no room for people like YOUR prophets who speak contrary to the word of God because there are no laws for them to change, amend and perfect, for it was done already by Christ...

Originally posted by Regret
I apologize to you, but you are gravely mistaken. Modern prophets present in the LDS church are not false prophets, they are true prophets.

* that's what you think...

Originally posted by Regret
You cling to the logic presented by clergy with no contact with God. The idea that prophets were ended was the only means by which Christian clergy could claim authority, and they have poisoned the populace against the truth.

* you speak of the Catholic clergy, that's not my turf, i don't agree any of their unbiblical doctrines...

Originally posted by Regret
It is amusing how so-called Christians rationalize their beliefs through denial of the consistency presented in the Bible. God spoke to men, while Christ was on Earth, Christ did the speaking and prophets were not necessary, Christ was there. Almost immediately following his ascension the apostles began having prophetic visions and communications, an obvious return of prophets and prophecy, yet so-called Christians deny the truth. When true prophets returned you cower in fear of maybe following a false prophet.

* i believe there will be a man in the endtimes that is the preacher sent by God... but that preacher will NOT speak in contrary with the Scriptures... the basis is what was written...

"I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, O my lord, what shall be the issue of these things?
He said, Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.
Many shall purify themselves, and make themselves white, and be refined; but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand; but those who are wise shall understand."
Daniel 12:8-10

* the words are shut up and sealed UNTIL the time of the end... in the endtimes, a preacher of God will emerge and speak things of God according to what was written, and NOT contrary to it...

Originally posted by Regret
The fruits of the prophets of the LDS church are good, they promote christian principles, the LDS people are a wholesome and delightful people, the LDS church increases the value of property surrounding the areas it builds, the LDS church encourages and strengthens learning institutions, the LDS church promotes family structure and unity, the LDS church aids in worldwide and local relief efforts, the LDS church's welfare system is second to none, the LDS church encourages people to have gainful employment and be of value in the community. Their fruits are good, they are not thorns and thistles, as many so-called Christian groups are.

* like extra-marital affairs? like polygamous marriages? i really doubt these so-called "good, christian principles" of your group...

Originally posted by Regret
It is a credible source of religious knowledge, but it is not a credible basis of faith.

* see? the basis of YOUR faith is YOUR prophet... do you find it hard to admit it?

Originally posted by Regret
The Bible states that our foundation is to be Christ. Foundation and basis are the same thing in the context we are discussing. Christ is the foundation of my belief and faith, not the written text that some man created, regardless of its sacred value.

* YOUR "christ" was based on what? the true Christ is written in the Bible... and YOURS is?

Originally posted by Regret
Nothing the LDS prophets have ever stated is contrary to the Bible. They may be contrary to your interpretation, but your interpretation is not the true interpretation, if it conflicts with God's prophets.

* like extra-marital affairs? like polygamous marriages? i really doubt these so-called "good, christian principles" of your group... 😉

Originally posted by Regret
Their words do holds as much validity as the Bible, this does not imply that there is any contradiction between their words and the Bible, such is your belief, but not a valid belief.

* what is valid is if it conforms with the Bible, NOT against it...

Originally posted by Regret
No, it does not mean he will say anything contrary to the Bible, you have stated this due to an erroneous belief that the Bible contains everything God will ever say to man. Such is not the case, God still speaks to man and will continue to do so.

* God continues to speak with man, God's preacher especially in the endtimes... obviously, God will not let that preacher to speak anything contrary to what was written...

Originally posted by Regret
No, but it is Gods word, and it clarifies the error you hold concerning the marriage as referred to in Luke. It is entirely Biblical. It is not contrary in any fashion.

* it is clear in Luke 20:28-36, there is NO marriage in heaven... which puts your claim - that God has a wife - in the garbage...

Originally posted by Regret
Once again you add to the Bible. Such is definitely unBiblical my friend, the Bible does not state what you do. Your interpretation adds much to the word presented in the Bible.

* nope, it is very clear in Acts 17:24-25 that God does NOT need anything like humans do... you are blinded by YOUR so-called "prophets" that it is okay to engage in extra-marital affairs because God has a wife too... what a pathetic excuse for a doctrine!

Originally posted by Regret
You have no basis for such an assumption. You still cling to your claim that what you add to the Bible in limitations is valid. The Bible does not state that God does not have a wife either, so, by the same logic, "hah! your belief that God does not have a wife is blatantly NOT in the Bible, nor does the Bible even suggest anything similar to that kind of belief... it only strengthens my argument that the beliefs you hold are definitely false and unBiblical..."

* see? that is your absurd logic! because it was not written word-for-word in the Bible that God does have or does not have a wife, you put credibility in your claim that God has a possibility to have a wife... however, Bible verses suggests otherwise like Acts 17:24-25, by which you have not refuted because you would be in hot water...

Originally posted by Regret
You should not go beyond what is written. Why? Because man comes up with many erroneous ideas when doing so. Examples: No prophets following Christ, Trinitarian doctrine, any baptism not by immersion, there are many more, but there is no need to go on. I cannot go beyond what the prophets and apostles have taught, why? Because I do not have authority given by God to do so. Prophets have the authority to speak in the name of God, they are not the ones being spoken to in Corinthians, lay people were. The lay people of Corinth were extending their judgements of others past what had been taught by those in authority had taught, past the writings that they had been given.

* and what do you think YOUR prophets are doing?

Originally posted by Regret
I do not place anyone on a pedestal, God speaks to man, he often speaks through an individual or small group of individuals, such is the pattern presented in the scriptures, this does not place them on a pedestal. It is you who places the men in the Bible on a pedestal, you hold their words which were recorded higher than all else, you have a pedestal, and you have raised the Bible upon it and worshipped the Bible.

* i am putting the Bible where it should be - the basis of Christian faith... whilst you, you put credibility to YOUR so-called "prophets" that teach contrary to the Bible, not to my interpretation, the Bible... i do not worship the Bible, but i believe things written in the Bible and it is my basis of faith... you always fail and refuse to admit that your basis of faith is YOUR prophets but you continue to spew things in favor for them rather than the Bible...

Originally posted by Regret
Polygamous [b]marriage. Adultery is outside the bounds of marriage, polygamy is not adultery, and it cannot be considered such given the definition you provided for adultery, regardless of your view of polygamy. [/B]

* there is no such thing a "polygamous marriage" in the doctrine of Christ, nor it even suggests like one...

"And said, For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?
So they are no longer two but one flesh
. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder."
Matthew 19:5-6

* YOUR doctrine of polygamous marriage is a sin, a violation, an inquity, a transgression in the eyes of God... you are blinded by YOUR "prophets" to believe that such doctrine is okay only to justify the adulterous actions of YOUR leader, mr.Smith... 😉