Biblical God, physical body or merely a spirit?

Originally posted by Regret
Christ had to be sacrificed to satisfy justice, and thus allow man to return to God. Thus, he had to be manifested in the flesh, yes. The spirit does not die. Bible states the soul is the body and the spirit. Man is a soul. Man is a spirit and a body combined. Thus, "man is a spirit" is correct.

* nope, it's not...

"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have."
Luke 24:39

* humans have flesh and bones... humans are not spirits... humans have spirits...

Originally posted by Regret
Physical does not have limits in a perfect form, only in our imperfect physical form is it limited. You place limits on the physical body (i.e. hunger, death) by assuming it is perfect,

* because it really has limits, accept that...

Originally posted by Regret
God is perfect, man is not, thus God's body does not have the limitations that ours do.

"Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality.
When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory."
I Corinthians 15:51-54

* why will there be changes? because physical body has limits... the physical body is perishable and mortal... why would God acquire something like that if He is already imperishable and immortal? 😕

Originally posted by peejayd
* nope, it's not...

"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have."
Luke 24:39

* humans have flesh and bones... humans are not spirits... humans have spirits...

Man's spirit does not have flesh and bones, his body does. Man is a soul, the spirit and the body combined. Man is a spirit, and that spirit inhabits a body, while the two are together man has a soul.

Once again the only scriptural error is your assumption that your interpretation is correct when there is no conclusive manner of determining that such is true.

Originally posted by peejayd
* because it really has limits, accept that...

"Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality.
When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory."
I Corinthians 15:51-54

* why will there be changes? because physical body has limits... the physical body is perishable and mortal... why would God acquire something like that if He is already imperishable and immortal? 😕

God's body does not have limits. You are making assumptions based on the physical body you have, and on your faulty interpretation.

Originally posted by Regret
Man's spirit does not have flesh and bones, his body does. Man is a soul, the spirit and the body combined. Man is a spirit, and that spirit inhabits a body, while the two are together man has a soul.

* here's what you just failed to understand - Luke 24:39 speaks of Jesus' physical body, and that physical body is not a spirit, and has flesh and bones...

* so when you say "spirit", it automatically means no flesh and bones according to Jesus Himself...

* in John 4:24, God is a spirit, so God has no flesh and bones, very simple... plus, God NEEDS NOT flesh and bones...

Originally posted by Regret
Once again the only scriptural error is your assumption that [b]your interpretation is correct when there is no conclusive manner of determining that such is true.[/B]

* your error is your assumption that your interpretation is correct... which is really unbiblical... the Bible says God is a spirit but you claim i'm limiting God, but that's what the Bible says, not me... so your claim, God is a spirit but NOT spirit only, you're not limiting God, but you're claim is NOT in the Bible...

Originally posted by Regret
The physical body is changed such that it is no longer subject to these things. Given that man has a spirit, the only change necessary is the change in the physical form to make it perfect and immortal. When the perishable body is changed to an imperishable body. Spirit is everlasting, and it is imperishable. Man already has a spirit, thus the body is the perishable that is changed to imperishable, otherwise no change is made.

* the transformation will be - in layman's terms - from physical body to spiritual body... proof?

"For they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."
Luke 20:36

* and angels are what?

"But to what angel has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand, till I make thy enemies a stool for thy feet"?
Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation?"
Hebrews 1:13-14

* all angels are spirits...

Originally posted by Regret
God's body does not have limits. You are making assumptions based on the physical body you have, and on your faulty interpretation.

* God's body has no limits because His body is not physical... John 4:24 -> God is a spirit, keep that in mind... 😉

Originally posted by peejayd
* here's what you just failed to understand - Luke 24:39 speaks of Jesus' physical body, and that physical body is not a spirit, and has flesh and bones...

* so when you say "spirit", it automatically means no flesh and bones according to Jesus Himself...

* in John 4:24, God is a spirit, so God has no flesh and bones, very simple... plus, God NEEDS NOT flesh and bones...

Your interpretation alone. "God is light" must also equal "God is only light", thus God is not a Spirit, he is only light. "God is love" must also equal "God is only love", thus God is not a Spirit or light, he is only love.

Your stance is only valid from the a priori assumption of a God without physical body. If the stance is taken that he has a physical body, Biblical text does not refute such.

1 Cor 2:11
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Job 32: 8
8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Prov. 18: 14
14 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear.

The spirit is in the body now, it is not something gained later.

2 Cor 12:2-4
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth😉 such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth😉
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Paul was unsure of whether or not men had bodies in heaven. If Paul, an Apostle who saw Christ, did not know this, how can you claim to?

Romans 8:9
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you, you are not in flesh, but in Spirit. Pay attention, Spirit is capatilized here, it is not in Luke 24:39. There is a difference between the usage of the term spirit, Spirit as referred to in John 4:24 is not the same as spirit as referred to in Luke 24:39, the difference is significant, and it is required in the translation as well.

Originally posted by peejayd
* your error is your assumption that your interpretation is correct... which is really unbiblical... the Bible says God is a spirit but you claim i'm limiting God, but that's what the Bible says, not me... so your claim, God is a spirit but NOT spirit only, you're not limiting God, but you're claim is NOT in the Bible...

Once again, you are unable to admit you may be wrong.

Originally posted by peejayd
* the transformation will be - in layman's terms - from physical body to spiritual body... proof?

"For they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."
Luke 20:36

* and angels are what?

"But to what angel has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand, till I make thy enemies a stool for thy feet"?
Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation?"
Hebrews 1:13-14

* all angels are spirits...

* God's body has no limits because His body is not physical... John 4:24 -> God is a spirit, keep that in mind... 😉

Genesis 32:24
24 ¶ And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob’s thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

God has a body, and Jacob wrestled with him, either that or an Angel has a body, which do you prefer?

Originally posted by Regret
Your interpretation alone. "God is light" must also equal "God is only light", thus God is not a Spirit, he is only light. "God is love" must also equal "God is only love", thus God is not a Spirit or light, he is only love.

* nope, God as a spirit only does not contradict Him as a light nor love... the "spirit" is a kind of BEING... just like "human", is a kind of being... so, a human being and a spirit being are two different beings...

Originally posted by Regret
Your stance is only valid from the a priori assumption of a God without physical body. If the stance is taken that he has a physical body, Biblical text does not refute such.

* it does...

"God is not man , that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should repent. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfil it?"
Numbers 23:19

"Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, Thus says the Lord GOD: Because your heart is proud, and you have said, I am a god, I sit in the seat of the gods, in the heart of the seas, yet you are but a man, and no god, though you consider yourself as wise as a god--"
Ezekiel 28:2

"I will not execute my fierce anger, I will not again destroy E'phraim; for I am God and not man, the Holy One in your midst, and I will not come to destroy."
Hosea 11:9

* you see, these verses clearly tells us that God is not a man and man is not a god... if God has physical body like humans, it would very much easy to equate God with man, but that's not the case...

Originally posted by Regret
1 Cor 2:11
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Job 32: 8
8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Prov. 18: 14
14 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear.

The spirit is in the body now, it is not something gained later.

* there are different kinds of spirits... and maybe we are talking about different ones... do not classify spirit in a single category...

"For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead."
James 2:26

* Saint James talks here about a spirit, that without it, the body is dead... what is that spirit?

"As long as my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;"
Job 27:3

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
Genesis 2:7

* one kind of spirit in man given by God is the "breath of life"... without it, we are dead...

"But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Sama'ria and to the end of the earth."
Acts 1:8

"But when the Counselor comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness to me;"
John 15:26

* there is the Holy Spirit from God that was sent by Christ to His disciples...

Originally posted by Regret
2 Cor 12:2-4
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Paul was unsure of whether or not men had bodies in heaven. If Paul, an Apostle who saw Christ, did not know this, how can you claim to?

* Saint Paul only refrains to write what he saw...

"And he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.
On behalf of this man I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except of my weaknesses.
Though if I wish to boast, I shall not be a fool, for I shall be speaking the truth. But I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me."
II Corinthians 12:4-6

* but Saint Paul knows these things...

"There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another."
I Corinthians 15:40

* there is body for earth and there is body for heaven...

"It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body."
I Corinthians 15:40, 44

* there is physical body and there is spiritual body...

"I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."
I Corinthians 15:50

* flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God... that is the physical body, it has flesh and bones... so, if you read I Corinthians 15:51-54, upon resurrection, all will be changed from mortal and perishable to immortal and imperishable which is the spiritual body...

Originally posted by Regret
Romans 8:9
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you, you are not in flesh, but in Spirit. Pay attention, Spirit is capatilized here, it is not in Luke 24:39. There is a difference between the usage of the term spirit, Spirit as referred to in John 4:24 is not the same as spirit as referred to in Luke 24:39, the difference is significant, and it is required in the translation as well.

* Romans 8:9 should not be taken literally as you seem to imply... the term "not in the flesh" does not mean we don't have flesh anymore... please read its preceding verses...

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."
Romans 8:6

* there are carnal ways (in the flesh) and there are spiritual ways...

"If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit."
Galatians 5:25

* i hope you got my point...

Originally posted by Regret
Once again, you are unable to admit you may be wrong.

* your claim is still not Biblical, my friend...

Originally posted by Regret
Genesis 32:24
24 ¶ And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob’s thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

God has a body, and Jacob wrestled with him, either that or an Angel has a body, which do you prefer?

* i thought i knew you more than that, my friend... people in the Old Testament did not ever see God... they only saw an angel representing as God...

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 1:18

"Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father."
John 6:46

* so the "man" who wrestled with Jacob is an angel of God, and since that angel is representing God, Jacob knows he saw God...

"But to what angel has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand, till I make thy enemies a stool for thy feet"?
Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation?"
Hebrews 1:13-14

* all angels are spirits... how did an angel wrestle with Jacob without flesh and bones?

"When men began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them,
The sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair; and they took to wife such of them as they chose."
Genesis 6:1-2

* same question rises as how evil angels took female humans to produce mighty people or giants in the time of Noah... easy, they took a human form, a physical body... but originally, all angels are spirits... 😉

Originally posted by peejayd
* nope, God as a spirit only does not contradict Him as a light nor love... the "spirit" is a kind of BEING... just like "human", is a kind of being... so, a human being and a spirit being are two different beings...

* it does...

"God is not man , that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should repent. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfil it?"
Numbers 23:19

"Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, Thus says the Lord GOD: Because your heart is proud, and you have said, I am a god, I sit in the seat of the gods, in the heart of the seas, yet you are but a man, and no god, though you consider yourself as wise as a god--"
Ezekiel 28:2

"I will not execute my fierce anger, I will not again destroy E'phraim; for I am God and not man, the Holy One in your midst, and I will not come to destroy."
Hosea 11:9

* you see, these verses clearly tells us that God is not a man and man is not a god... if God has physical body like humans, it would very much easy to equate God with man, but that's not the case...

* there are different kinds of spirits... and maybe we are talking about different ones... do not classify spirit in a single category...

"For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead."
James 2:26

* Saint James talks here about a spirit, that without it, the body is dead... what is that spirit?

"As long as my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;"
Job 27:3

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
Genesis 2:7

* one kind of spirit in man given by God is the "breath of life"... without it, we are dead...

"But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Sama'ria and to the end of the earth."
Acts 1:8

"But when the Counselor comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness to me;"
John 15:26

* there is the Holy Spirit from God that was sent by Christ to His disciples...

* Saint Paul only refrains to write what he saw...

"And he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.
On behalf of this man I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except of my weaknesses.
Though if I wish to boast, I shall not be a fool, for I shall be speaking the truth. But I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me."
II Corinthians 12:4-6

* but Saint Paul knows these things...

"There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another."
I Corinthians 15:40

* there is body for earth and there is body for heaven...

"It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body."
I Corinthians 15:40, 44

* there is physical body and there is spiritual body...

"I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."
I Corinthians 15:50

* flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God... that is the physical body, it has flesh and bones... so, if you read I Corinthians 15:51-54, upon resurrection, all will be changed from mortal and perishable to immortal and imperishable which is the spiritual body...

* Romans 8:9 should not be taken literally as you seem to imply... the term "not in the flesh" does not mean we don't have flesh anymore... please read its preceding verses...

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."
Romans 8:6

* there are carnal ways (in the flesh) and there are spiritual ways...

"If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit."
Galatians 5:25

* i hope you got my point...

* your claim is still not Biblical, my friend...

* i thought i knew you more than that, my friend... people in the Old Testament did not ever see God... they only saw an angel representing as God...

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 1:18

"Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father."
John 6:46

* so the "man" who wrestled with Jacob is an angel of God, and since that angel is representing God, Jacob knows he saw God...

"But to what angel has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand, till I make thy enemies a stool for thy feet"?
Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation?"
Hebrews 1:13-14

* all angels are spirits... how did an angel wrestle with Jacob without flesh and bones?

"When men began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them,
The sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair; and they took to wife such of them as they chose."
Genesis 6:1-2

* same question rises as how evil angels took female humans to produce mighty people or giants in the time of Noah... easy, they took a human form, a physical body... but originally, all angels are spirits... 😉

"Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father."
John 6:46

He which is of God can see the Father.

1 Jn. 4:2
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1 Jn. 4:6
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1 Jn. 3:9
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 Jn. 5: 1, 4, 18
1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
• • •
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
• • •
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Some could have seen God.

God is infinte, therefore he is everywhere and in everything.

Originally posted by Alfheim
God is infinte, therefore he is everywhere and in everything.

Originally posted by Regret
You rationalize your position, but it is still only supported by your interpretation and not necessarily the Bible if your interpretation is flawed.

* what? after all those verses i gave? 😕

Originally posted by Regret
You should admit that your interpretation could be in error. You make assumptions that text is missing that would support your view, you make assumptions as to what is being spoken of because to do otherwise would show your interpretation as false.

* "could" be in error? admit? assumptions? interpretations? then, show me where i gave a verse with a wrong interpretation... perhaps you have, because your claim is obviously not Biblical...

Originally posted by Regret
I do not believe your interpretation to be correct, but I admit you could have some valid points.

* now, this is getting weird...

Originally posted by Regret
I do not believe Gods body is the same as ours, I believe it is a perfected form and is most likely we would not be capable of comparison with the body man currently has. You have come across as equating God's form only the same as the spirit that is in man, which I believe God is more than. I believe God's form is a physical form though, not the same as man, but physical all the same.

* if God's body is not the same as humans, why conclude God's body to be physical? moreso, Christ Himself said that God is a spirit, how the heck can that be physical?

Originally posted by Regret
You interpret flesh and bones as meaning physical body in general, I interpret flesh and bones as a type of physical form. Your interpretation is all you have, not Biblical support.

* then give other physical forms... and what is the physical form of God in your belief?

Originally posted by Regret
"Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father."
John 6:46

He which is of God can see the Father.

Some could have seen God.

* i have included this verse because it's on my side... Jesus is talking about Himself here...

"Not that any one has seen the Father except him who is from God; he has seen the Father."
John 6:46

* for further details, here's the context...

"The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
They said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, I have come down from heaven?
Jesus answered them, Do not murmur among yourselves.
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught by God. Every one who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me.
Not that any one has seen the Father except him who is from God; he has seen the Father.
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life."
John 6:41-47

* Jesus said He is the Bread which came down from heaven... the Jews only knows that Jesus is a child of Joseph and Mary... and Jesus said no one has seen the Father except Him who is from God... Jesus is talking about Himself...

* you always say that my argument is only backed up by my own interpretation... but it was you who is incapable of showing God's physical form according to the Bible... that's simply because the Bible teaches us that God is a spirit (John 4:24)...

* i also believe that God is infinite (Psalms 90:2)... but God is not omnipresent because is not an Author of confusion (I Corinthians 14:33), and He is not there in places of disorder... 😉

Originally posted by peejayd
* what? after all those verses i gave? 😕

* "could" be in error? admit? assumptions? interpretations? then, show me where i gave a verse with a wrong interpretation... perhaps you have, because your claim is obviously not Biblical...

* now, this is getting weird...

* if God's body is not the same as humans, why conclude God's body to be physical? moreso, Christ Himself said that God is a spirit, how the heck can that be physical?

* then give other physical forms... and what is the physical form of God in your belief?

* i have included this verse because it's on my side... Jesus is talking about Himself here...

"Not that any one has seen the Father except him who is from God; he has seen the Father."
John 6:46

* for further details, here's the context...

"The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
They said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, I have come down from heaven?
Jesus answered them, Do not murmur among yourselves.
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught by God. Every one who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me.
Not that any one has seen the Father except him who is from God; he has seen the Father.
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life."
John 6:41-47

* Jesus said He is the Bread which came down from heaven... the Jews only knows that Jesus is a child of Joseph and Mary... and Jesus said no one has seen the Father except Him who is from God... Jesus is talking about Himself...

* you always say that my argument is only backed up by my own interpretation... but it was you who is incapable of showing God's physical form according to the Bible... that's simply because the Bible teaches us that God is a spirit (John 4:24)...

* i also believe that God is infinite (Psalms 90:2)... but God is not omnipresent because is not an Author of confusion (I Corinthians 14:33), and He is not there in places of disorder... 😉

Also, I have evidence in my religion, in that Joseph Smith did see God the Father and the Son. You do not have this, you only have two thousand year old text that has often been altered and translated in error to fit the beliefs of man. I have prophets that have unequivocally stated that God has a physical form, you have interpretations of text that are in error. These statements are not in conflict with Biblical text, only with the interpretation of Biblical text that you believe in. The belief is Biblical, the stance is not in line with a belief that "God is only a Spirit", a modified statement that was modified by yourself and those with a similar view to include an implied "only". God did not stop speaking to prophets, they continue.

Your interpretation is only that, your interpretation. I realize you do not believe in my prophets, that is irrelevant. Your interpretation is all you have, and there can be a differing interpretation, thus you have no support for your stance. Biblical quotations on the subject are nonexistent, their support of your stance is only valid if your interpretation is correct, which it is not. You have only a text that has been modified to fit the "Christian" belief for the last two thousand years, it has errors, and is missing many things.

It is possible that I could be in error, I admit this regardless of my belief and faith that I am not in error. Your belief could be in error, and in my belief it is. I do not see conclusive evidence in the verses you have quoted, even with the absence of my belief I would not see conclusive evidence in the verses you have quoted.

Originally posted by Regret
I believe God to have a physical form, given this my interpretation of verses you have provided does not lead to "God is only a Spirit" (the "only" you added.) You believe that God is only a spirit, thus, your interpretation leads to such. My evidences are the verses you have quoted. They do not speak to absolutes. If God was only a Spirit, and beings in Heaven are only spirits, then, there was no reason for Christ to appear in the physical body, there is no need for the description of physical form that is presented throughout the Bible.

* the verses i quoted do not speak absolutes?

"God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 4:24

"Before the mountains were brought forth, and thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from eternity to eternity thou art God."
Psalms 90:2

"Every good endowment and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change."
James 1:17

* these verses are not absolutes? God is a spirit, He is God from eternity to eternity, and God does not change... believing God has a physical from is clearly unbiblical... me saying God is ONLY a spirit is backed up by these verses...

Originally posted by Regret
Also, I have evidence in my religion, in that Joseph Smith did see God the Father and the Son. You do not have this, you only have two thousand year old text that has often been altered and translated in error to fit the beliefs of man.

* now that's the problem... you believe in mr.Smith and the Mormon book more than you believe in the Bible... one thing about mr.Smith:

"The saying is sure: If any one aspires to the office of bishop, he desires a noble task.
Now a bishop must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, dignified, hospitable, an apt teacher,
No drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, and no lover of money.
He must manage his own household well, keeping his children submissive and respectful in every way;"
I Timothy 3:1-4

* a bishop should be a husband of ONE wife... mr.Smith is more than a bishop, he is a leader of a religious organization... and how many wives does mr.Smith have?

Originally posted by Regret
I have prophets that have unequivocally stated that God has a physical form, you have interpretations of text that are in error. These statements are not in conflict with Biblical text, only with the interpretation of Biblical text that you believe in. The belief is Biblical, the stance is not in line with a belief that "God is only a Spirit", a modified statement that was modified by yourself and those with a similar view to include an implied "only". God did not stop speaking to prophets, they continue.

* prophets from when? where? from the Old Testament? prophets in the OT saw an angel representing God and not God Himself...

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world."
I John 4:1

* see first if the prophets you believe are of God or not...

"If any man's will is to do his will, he shall know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.
He who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but he who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood."
John 7:17-18

* the teaching of a true preacher of God should be according to the doctrine of Christ in the Bible and NOT according to mr.Smith...

Originally posted by Regret
Your interpretation is only that, your interpretation. I realize you do not believe in my prophets, that is irrelevant.

* i believe in the prophets in the Bible... by the way, who are YOUR prophets?

Originally posted by Regret
Your interpretation is all you have, and there can be a differing interpretation, thus you have no support for your stance. Biblical quotations on the subject are nonexistent, their support of your stance is only valid if your interpretation is correct, which it is not. You have only a text that has been modified to fit the "Christian" belief for the last two thousand years, it has errors, and is missing many things.

* the Word of God has no errors...

"All the words of my mouth are righteous; there is nothing twisted or crooked in them."
Proverbs 8:8

* my interpretation is not MY interpretation... it is the Bible's...

Originally posted by Regret
It is possible that I could be in error, I admit this regardless of my belief and faith that I am not in error. Your belief could be in error, and in my belief it is. I do not see conclusive evidence in the verses you have quoted, even with the absence of my belief I would not see conclusive evidence in the verses you have quoted.

* if you are using the Bible as your basis of faith, i must say that you are really in error... however, if you will admit that your basis is not in the Bible but of mr.Smith and the Mormon book, then we should stop this discussion, there is no point of argument because we have different basis just like [Christians=Bible] & [Muslims=Qu'ran]... 😉

Originally posted by peejayd
* the verses i quoted do not speak absolutes?

"God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 4:24

"Before the mountains were brought forth, and thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from eternity to eternity thou art God."
Psalms 90:2

"Every good endowment and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change."
James 1:17

* these verses are not absolutes? God is a spirit, He is God from eternity to eternity, and God does not change... believing God has a physical from is clearly unbiblical... me saying God is ONLY a spirit is backed up by these verses...

Originally posted by peejayd
* now that's the problem... you believe in mr.Smith and the Mormon book more than you believe in the Bible... one thing about mr.Smith:

"The saying is sure: If any one aspires to the office of bishop, he desires a noble task.
Now a bishop must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, dignified, hospitable, an apt teacher,
No drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, and no lover of money.
He must manage his own household well, keeping his children submissive and respectful in every way;"
I Timothy 3:1-4

* a bishop should be a husband of ONE wife... mr.Smith is more than a bishop, he is a leader of a religious organization... and how many wives does mr.Smith have?

Also, one wife. You are adding only once again, what does the Bible state concerning adding to it?

Originally posted by peejayd
* prophets from when? where? from the Old Testament? prophets in the OT saw an angel representing God and not God Himself...

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; [B]for many false prophets have gone out into the world."
I John 4:1

* see first if the prophets you believe are of God or not...

"If any man's will is to do his will, he shall know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.
He who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but he who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood."
John 7:17-18

* the teaching of a true preacher of God should be according to the doctrine of Christ in the Bible and NOT according to mr.Smith... [/b]

Authority given by God. The teachings are according to the doctrines presented in the Bible.

Originally posted by peejayd
* i believe in the prophets in the Bible... by the way, who are YOUR prophets?

Every prophet from Adam to the present day. I believe that God loves us enough to continue speaking to us, unlike you who follows the unBiblical belief that God has not spoken to man since the NT.

Originally posted by peejayd
* the Word of God has no errors...

"All the words of my mouth are righteous; there is nothing twisted or crooked in them."
Proverbs 8:8

* my interpretation is not MY interpretation... it is the Bible's...

No, the Word of God does not have error, the Bible states that Christ is the Word of God. The Bible is the record of the word of God as recorded by man. It is the word of God, not the Word of God.

Originally posted by peejayd
* if you are using the Bible as your basis of faith, i must say that you are really in error... however, if you will admit that your basis is not in the Bible but of mr.Smith and the Mormon book, then we should stop this discussion, there is no point of argument because we have different basis just like [Christians=Bible] & [Muslims=Qu'ran]... 😉

Originally posted by Regret
They are not absolute as to the form of God no.

Nothing is factually absolute as to the form of God. On this I agree with you ✅

Originally posted by Regret
And Abraham, how many wives did he have? And Jacob/Israel, how many did he? There are examples of the number of wives being irrelevant to Church position. God does not change his teachings, or does he?

God may not change his teachings, but the Churches certainly do ! That fact is evident throughout the theological history of all religions.

Originally posted by Regret
Also, one wife. You are adding only once again, what does the Bible state concerning adding to it?

The Bible makes no criticisms on "great" kings , inspired by God, who had many wives. It was acceptable.

Originally posted by Regret
Authority given by God. The teachings are according to the doctrines presented in the Bible.

And they are valid how ? The bible is flooded with missing links, loopholes, and contradictions.

Originally posted by Regret
Every prophet from Adam to the present day. I believe that God loves us enough to continue speaking to us, unlike you who follows the unBiblical belief that God has not spoken to man since the NT.

If God exists, and if he truly loves his creation, then he or SHE will communicate with us for all eternity.

The Bible is a one-shot testament, and an extremely limitted messenger between God and Man.

Originally posted by Regret
No, the Word of God does not have error, the Bible states that Christ is the Word of God. The Bible is the record of the word of God as recorded by man. It is the word of God, not the Word of God.

The Bible is self evidently flawed because man wrote it. There is no proof, however, that God wrote it, although there are many reasons to beleive so.....

Originally posted by Regret
God and Christ are my basis of faith, not the men and their works. I am sorry that your faith is not based in this, but is instead based in a text based on their words. No, my faith is not based in the Bible, it is based in God and Christ.

A great argument, but how do you know your Faith is truly based on God and Christ ? What reference or basis do you have to draw that conclusion?

With all due respect, how do you KNOW you are not just simply following the guidelines of a myth ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
And they are valid how ? The bible is flooded with missing links, loopholes, and contradictions.

I did not claim belief did not play a role in modern day prophets. I do not know absolutely that they speak to God, but I do believe it. They are valid because God speaks to them. We believe that everyone is entitled to communication with God, it isn't always particularly overt, remember Elijah and his experience. We believe that everyone is entitled to communication with God within the domain of their responsibility, the individual for themselves, parents can receive communication for their family, Bishops for their congregations, General Authorities for those they are responsible for, Apostles for those they are responsible for, Seventies for mission work, and finally the Prophet for Man in general. Whatever your responsibility, you have the right to divine guidance. Priesthood authority does supersede all ecclesiastical positions lower though, but does not supersede the family.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If God exists, and if he truly loves his creation, then he or SHE will communicate with us for all eternity.

I believe such is so, although, I do believe God to be male 😉

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The Bible is a one-shot testament, and an extremely limitted messenger between God and Man.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The Bible is self evidently flawed because man wrote it. There is no proof, however, that God wrote it, although there are many reasons to beleive so.....

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
A great argument, but how do you know your Faith is truly based on God and Christ ? What reference or basis do you have to draw that conclusion?

With all due respect, how do you [b]KNOW you are not just simply following the guidelines of a myth ? [/B]

Amos 3: 7
7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

God will do nothing, unless he reveals it to his prophets. other claims at miracles within any Biblical believing faith that does not have a prophet is shown false through this verse. Any divine intervention occurring must be accompanied with a prophet unto whom God reveals the work. The only Biblical religion that currently has prophets is the LDS church.

I have personal knowledge that what I believe is true. Such is all that can generally be claimed. I do claim such, it is subjective, in that my experiences are my own, and only those present had the experience. I do not claim that my experiences are evidence for others, but the fact that they occurred may indeed lead another to faith, a hope that the truth I believe in is true, and thereby open up the possibility that they will have similar experiences through study, meditation and prayer combined with an honest desire. I believe personal experience is the only method for such a belief, and as such I cannot show the truth of my religion to another, I can only provide an example that may lead to another gaining such a personal experience.

Now, compared to idol worshipping the Bible, I believe that the basis should be God and Christ, not based in the worship of the Bible. Anyone who believes in the words of the Bible should have God and Christ as the basis of their belief and faith, not the words of the Bible, it is only supplemental to God and Christ not the basis of belief and faith.

Originally posted by Regret
I believe such is so, although, I do believe God to be male 😉

If you take a good look at this world and its nature, you will see how it is illogical for the Creator to be male, since Females are the givers of life.

Originally posted by Regret
The Bible is the record of divine guidance given to Man through the Hebrews. It is useful, but it is not the end-all of God's communication with Man.

This is just beleif, and I have nothing other than further beleif to make a response. Please excuse my refusal to extensively argue this point.

Originally posted by Regret
I do not believe God wrote it. I believe that men did. I believe that they attempted to record, as accurately as possible the events regarding God's dealings with Men.

1) Men did write the Bible. There's no doubt about it

2) Regardless, the Bible is still flawed. Any time something extraordinary happens, religious people will normally refer the credit to thier god, even when there is no proof of thier diety's presence in the event.

Originally posted by Regret
I have personal evidences, that would merely be scoffed at were I to recount them. I have had divine intervention directly within my life. I have witnessed and been a part of blessings of healing.

Not necessarily. In fact, I beleive that if you (and even JIA) spoke more from personal experience than simply coping and pasting Biblical or Mormon passages, or constantly RE STATING what you beleive with no proof, people may take your assertions more seriously.

Atleast I would.

Originally posted by Regret
I have personal knowledge that what I believe is true.

So do I.

What good does it do me or anyone else? If you cannot prove the validity of your knowledge to the rest of us, HOW DO YOU EXPECT any of us to DROP our OWN beleifs and convert to your own ?

Originally posted by Regret
Such is all that can generally be claimed. I do claim such, it is subjective, in that my experiences are my own, and only those present had the experience. I do not claim that my experiences are evidence for others, but the fact that they occurred may indeed lead another to faith, a hope that the truth I believe in is true, and thereby open up the possibility that they will have similar experiences through study, meditation and prayer combined with an honest desire. I believe personal experience is the only method for such a belief, and as such I cannot show the truth of my religion to another, I can only provide an example that may lead to another gaining such a personal experience.

A Noble cause...but understand that for every "truth" you have discovered, someone else has discovered THIER OWN "truths".

Shaky discovered HIS TRUTH in Buddhism

I discovered MY TRUTH through my own experiences, research, interactions, and self examinations.

You have to understand that MUCH OF WHAT WE SEE is what WE WANT TO SEE.... and much of what we believe is what we WANT to beleive.

Circular Reasoning kicks in when coincidenses or certain events fuel our favored beleifs, and then our desire kicks in to create more visual or sensible instances that drive us to beleive what we beleive deeper and deeper.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If you take a good look at this world and its nature, you will see how it is illogical for the Creator to be male, since Females are the givers of life.

No, it requires male and female to create life in the human species.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Not necessarily. In fact, I beleive that if you (and even JIA) spoke more from personal experience than simply coping and pasting Biblical or Mormon passages, or constantly RE STATING what you beleive with no proof, people may take your assertions more seriously.

Atleast I would.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So do I.

What good does it do me or anyone else? If you cannot prove the validity of your knowledge to the rest of us, HOW DO YOU EXPECT any of us to DROP our OWN beleifs and convert to your own ?

I do not expect you to do anything. I present my beliefs, I discuss various religious opinions. If a person is interested in my beliefs then I expect them to do their own research, I expect them to pursue a knowledge of my religion. I post here to state and perhaps explain my beliefs, I post here to debate the rationale behind various beliefs if people choose to debate them and they are such that debate is possible, I post here to discuss religions, because I enjoy the subject of religious philosophy and belief. I do not ever speak to people to convert them, the most I expect is an admission to faith/belief. I expect people to admit that it is possible they are wrong. This thread is challenging the ability of some individuals to admit that they have faith and belief, not an absolute knowledge. I admit I am possibly wrong, I believe that to not be humble enough to admit this is in error. If the NT is fact, such a stance would have aided many Jews in accepting that their ideas concerning what the Messiah was was incorrect. Instead, many Jews, particularly the Jewish religious leaders and scholars, were unable to accept Christ as Messiah, an error if Christ was the Messiah, due to their preconceptions. Belief and faith are important and necessary, but humility and acceptance of possible error is perhaps a saving principle.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
A Noble cause...but understand that for every "truth" you have discovered, someone else has discovered THIER OWN "truths".

Shaky discovered [b]HIS TRUTH in Buddhism

I discovered MY TRUTH through my own experiences, research, interactions, and self examinations.

You have to understand that MUCH OF WHAT WE SEE is what WE WANT TO SEE.... and much of what we believe is what we WANT to beleive.

Circular Reasoning kicks in when coincidenses or certain events fuel our favored beleifs, and then our desire kicks in to create more visual or sensible instances that drive us to beleive what we beleive deeper and deeper. [/B]

I had an experience where the individual being blessed was unconscious, at the instant the blessing ended, which was given silently by myself, the individual awoke, startled by a loud sound that only she heard, described as hundreds of people clapping all at the same time.

A vision occurred where the Devil appeared in a fury because of conversion to my faith, angry because he claimed Nephi (A Book of Mormon prophet) was a liar. Not non-existent, but a liar.

My brother blessed my Grandfather that he would see his entire family and then die. I and my Father were the last of my Grandfather's living family to reach the room where he lay, as we entered, he looked at us and passed.

I was diagnosed with an incurable and persistent medical issue. I was told I would have it for my entire life, and only medication would keep me in a decent state of being. These were confirmed by a second opinion given by a specialist. I was given a blessing that I would be healed of the ailment. I have not taken the medication ever. The specialist and doctor have explained that for no apparent reason the ailment is gone, I have no presence of it in my body.

Circular reasoning by means of coincidence if and only if the results of blessings were not consistently present. I have never received or given a blessing that did not have effect. Coincidence would state that such is not possible, at least a few times there should have been failure of the blessing to have an effect.

Originally posted by Regret
No, it requires male and female to create life in the human species.

Not anymore.....the Egg Cell only needs 23 chromosones...those chromosones can come from anywhere....even the hair cell of the woman herself. That is how cloning works.

Sperm Banks are used because they are the tradition, they are easier to access because the sperm does the job for you instead of having to inject the 23 chromosones....

But Sperm is no longer an absolute necessity.

Woman can technically exist without men...men cannot exist without women. ❌

Sad huh? Kinda destroys the notion of Patriarchy, doesn't it ?

Also, despite all the above info, women are the bearers of life..not men. Women supply all the nourishment and development of the feotus, and the Birth itself.

All man does is have an orgasm......

Women deserve more credit for the creation of life....they do more of the work naturally.

If a divine CREATOR exists, it would logically be female rather than male.

Originally posted by Regret
Perhaps you would, but others would only mock these things. Such is not treating sacred events with respect. I do not come here attempting to change other peoples views, I do expect people to consider my beliefs, in the same way I consider other peoples. I will present a few of the minor experiences below.

And you think constantly quoting the Bible and preaching to everyone, telling us all how we are wrong for not beleiving what you beleive merits ANY RESPECT ?

Originally posted by Regret
I had an experience where the individual being blessed was unconscious, at the instant the blessing ended, which was given silently by myself, the individual awoke, startled by a loud sound that only she heard, described as hundreds of people clapping all at the same time.

I had an experience where I somehow correctly predicted every event of a baseball game..i dont know how.....im not fkn joking either...it just happened.....I never got over that.

I had an experience one summer....really freaky.....every body i came in contact with looked at me and smiled....again Regret, I am not joking.....i am dead serious.

I cracked my head open as a child. I was supposed to be dead.....i survived.

I had a dream about my freind....really long wierd dream.....guess what...She has the SAME EXACT DREAM I DID ! We both had the SAME fkn DREAM !

Regret....sometimes really wierd, amazing, and unexplainable things happen in life. It is a part of life. Is it God? Possibly....

But i am a non beleiver in your God, yet I too have experienced things that I can only classify as magical or just out of this world.

Originally posted by Regret
Circular reasoning by means of coincidence if and only if the results of blessings were not consistently present. I have never received or given a blessing that did not have effect. Coincidence would state that such is not possible, at least a few times there should have been failure of the blessing to have an effect.

What blessings have you given ? Please clarify, because every religious person I debate with claims they have performed miracles...no offense, but I find it a rather cheesy and skeptical argument.

It's like how EVERY SINGLE Christian says "But I KNOW Gay people...they told me being Gay was a choice".....I SWEAR every Christian Fundmenalist knows a Gay person who told them they chose it......lol there must be TONS AND TONS of f@gs lol

Point is, your "miracle argument" is the unique. It may be true, but I have heard the like before.

Originally posted by Regret
God and Christ are my basis of faith, not the men and their works. I am sorry that your faith is not based in this, but is instead based in a text based on their words. No, my faith is not based in the Bible, it is based in God and Christ.

* ah, so your faith is not in the Bible... but your faith is based on God and Christ... now, where can you find the teachings of God and Christ?

Originally posted by Regret
They are not absolute as to the form of God no.

* of course, it's not absolute for someone who does not base its faith on the Bible... God is God from eternity to eternity and God does not change... the passage is very clear and absolute, but i won't force that point to you because Bible is not your basis of faith...

Originally posted by Regret
And Abraham, how many wives did he have? And Jacob/Israel, how many did he? There are examples of the number of wives being irrelevant to Church position.

* ho ho ho, now this is cute... i thought you don't base your faith in the Bible? why give an example from it?

"You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's."
Exodus 20:14, 17

"Neither shall you commit adultery.
Neither shall you covet your neighbor's wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's."
Deuteronomy 5:18-21

* and what is adultery, my friend?

Adultery:
- voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her lawful spouse.
- extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes with marriage relations

* http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/adultery/

* even in the Bible dictionary in the same site as above...

Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary
Adultery:
- conjugal infidelity. An adulterer was a man who had illicit intercourse with a married or a betrothed woman, and such a woman was an adulteress. Intercourse between a married man and an unmarried woman was fornication. Adultery was regarded as a great social wrong, as well as a great sin. The Mosaic law (Num. 5:11-31) prescribed that the suspected wife should be tried by the ordeal of the "water of jealousy." There is, however, no recorded instance of the application of this law. In subsequent times the Rabbis made various regulations with the view of discovering the guilty party, and of bringing about a divorce. It has been inferred from John 8:1-11 that this sin became very common during the age preceding the destruction of Jerusalem. Idolatry, covetousness, and apostasy are spoken of as adultery spiritually (Jer. 3:6, 8, 9; Ezek. 16:32; Hos. 1:2:3; Rev. 2:22). An apostate church is an adulteress (Isa. 1:21; Ezek. 23:4, 7, 37), and the Jews are styled "an adulterous generation" (Matt. 12:39). (Comp. Rev. 12.)

* and if you must know, those people in the Old Testament who commits adultery had committed sin in the eyes of God...

Originally posted by Regret
God does not change his teachings, or does he?

* God did not change His teachings... for some ridiculous manner, you just think that Abraham did not sin when he committed adultery...

Originally posted by Regret
Also, one wife. You are adding only once again, what does the Bible state concerning adding to it?

* I Timothy 3:1-4 says only one wife... if you are going to think imaginary things like adding or stating there is no word "ONLY", it's very hypothetical... try to apply that "ONLY"-logic of yours to every verse in the Bible and you can come up with your own interpretation... nice one...

Originally posted by Regret
Authority given by God. The teachings are according to the doctrines presented in the Bible.

* now that's a kicker... you just said you don't base your faith in the Bible... you are clearly in double-standards, my friend... please compose yourself...

Originally posted by Regret
Every prophet from Adam to the present day. I believe that God loves us enough to continue speaking to us, unlike you who follows the unBiblical belief that God has not spoken to man since the NT.

* wrong...

"In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets;
But in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son , whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world."
Hebrews 1:1-2

* i just said i believe in the prophets stated in the Bible... you? who are your prophets? just in case you forgot, Bible is not the basis of your faith, so who are your prophets?

Originally posted by Regret
No, the Word of God does not have error, the Bible states that Christ is the Word of God. It is the word of God, not the Word of God.

* amen to that...

Originally posted by Regret
The Bible is the record of the word of God as recorded by man.

* so? because it was recorded by man, it cannot be trusted? history books are also recorded by man - thus, by your logic, do not also believe in it...

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."
Matthew 28:19-20

* it is the commandment of Jesus to His disciples to teach all things that was commanded by Him, that's why the disciples wrote letters, epistles and gospels...

"If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord."
I Corinthians 14:37

* the disciples only obeyed Jesus' commandment...

"All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
That the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."
II Timothy 3:16-17

"First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation,
Because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."
II Peter 1:20-21

* the Scripture is inspired by God and the men who wrote were moved by the Holy Spirit... 😉

Originally posted by peejayd
* ah, so your faith is not in the Bible... but your faith is based on God and Christ... now, where can you find the teachings of God and Christ?

* of course, it's not absolute for someone who does not base its faith on the Bible... God is God from eternity to eternity and God does not change... the passage is very clear and absolute, but i won't force that point to you because Bible is not your basis of faith...

* ho ho ho, now this is cute... i thought you don't base your faith in the Bible? why give an example from it?

"You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's."
Exodus 20:14, 17

"Neither shall you commit adultery.
Neither shall you covet your neighbor's wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's."
Deuteronomy 5:18-21

* and what is adultery, my friend?

Adultery:
- voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her lawful spouse.
- extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes with marriage relations

* http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/adultery/

* even in the Bible dictionary in the same site as above...

Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary
Adultery:
- conjugal infidelity. An adulterer was a man who had illicit intercourse with a married or a betrothed woman, and such a woman was an adulteress. Intercourse between a married man and an unmarried woman was fornication. Adultery was regarded as a great social wrong, as well as a great sin. The Mosaic law (Num. 5:11-31) prescribed that the suspected wife should be tried by the ordeal of the "water of jealousy." There is, however, no recorded instance of the application of this law. In subsequent times the Rabbis made various regulations with the view of discovering the guilty party, and of bringing about a divorce. It has been inferred from John 8:1-11 that this sin became very common during the age preceding the destruction of Jerusalem. Idolatry, covetousness, and apostasy are spoken of as adultery spiritually (Jer. 3:6, 8, 9; Ezek. 16:32; Hos. 1:2:3; Rev. 2:22). An apostate church is an adulteress (Isa. 1:21; Ezek. 23:4, 7, 37), and the Jews are styled "an adulterous generation" (Matt. 12:39). (Comp. Rev. 12.)

* and if you must know, those people in the Old Testament who commits adultery had committed sin in the eyes of God...

* God did not change His teachings... for some ridiculous manner, you just think that Abraham did not sin when he committed adultery...

* I Timothy 3:1-4 says only one wife... if you are going to think imaginary things like adding or stating there is no word "ONLY", it's very hypothetical... try to apply that "ONLY"-logic of yours to every verse in the Bible and you can come up with your own interpretation... nice one...

* now that's a kicker... you just said you don't base your faith in the Bible... you are clearly in double-standards, my friend... please compose yourself...

* wrong...

"In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets;
[B]But in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son , whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world."
Hebrews 1:1-2

* i just said i believe in the prophets stated in the Bible... you? who are your prophets? just in case you forgot, Bible is not the basis of your faith, so who are your prophets?

* amen to that...

* so? because it was recorded by man, it cannot be trusted? history books are also recorded by man - thus, by your logic, do not also believe in it...

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."
Matthew 28:19-20

* it is the commandment of Jesus to His disciples to teach all things that was commanded by Him, that's why the disciples wrote letters, epistles and gospels...

"If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord."
I Corinthians 14:37

* the disciples only obeyed Jesus' commandment...

"All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
That the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."
II Timothy 3:16-17

"First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation,
Because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."
II Peter 1:20-21

* the Scripture is inspired by God and the men who wrote were moved by the Holy Spirit... 😉 [/B]

Show me some Biblical evidence for having more than one wife being sin. Adultery is extramarital, if one is married to more than one woman, they are not committing adultery because such acts occur within the bounds of marriage. You still have not provided Biblical evidence against the practice of polygamy by Abraham, Israel, or any other Biblical prophet.

Your take on any prophecy is your interpretation of such. The Jews all interpreted the prophecies concerning the Messiah in varying ways, this is the reason for the Pharisees and Sadducee's disbelief in Christ. Prophecy is interpreted by those reading it, and you do interpret it.

As to this:

"In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; But in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son , whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world."
Hebrews 1:1-2

While Christ was on Earth God spoke to man by the Son, directly. There is no reason to assume that once Christ ascended there would be no prophets once again. Paul was one such. He did see Christ, he did have visions. Christ also showed visions to Peter, we have record of his prophetic vision prior to dining on what previously had been considered unclean foods. Also, Revelations is an example of prophecy following these verses. If Prophets were ended, such should not have occurred.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Not anymore.....the Egg Cell only needs 23 chromosones...those chromosones can come from anywhere....even the hair cell of the woman herself. That is how cloning works.

Sperm Banks are used because they are the tradition, they are easier to access because the sperm does the job for you instead of having to inject the 23 chromosones....

But Sperm is no longer an absolute necessity.

Woman can technically exist without men...men cannot exist without women. ❌

Sad huh? Kinda destroys the notion of Patriarchy, doesn't it ?

Also, despite all the above info, women are the bearers of life..not men. Women supply all the nourishment and development of the feotus, and the Birth itself.

All man does is have an orgasm......

Women deserve more credit for the creation of life....they do more of the work naturally.

If a divine CREATOR exists, it would logically be female rather than male.

It is possible to clone with a woman alone, but as of yet it is not, and may never be, a viable method for species perpetuation. Women cannot reproduce without men and produce viable offspring.

Using your logic, it would appear that there must be a male and a female God working together, not one or the other. Such is the predominant method of reproduction in existence.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
And you think constantly quoting the Bible and preaching to everyone, telling us all how we are wrong for not believing what you believe merits ANY RESPECT ?

When have do I constantly quote the Bible and preach to everyone, telling you all how you are wrong for not believing what I believe? I quote scripture when such is requested, or the individual is a Bible quoter, like Peejayd or JIA. I seldom attack a persons belief any more than anyone else in this forum, I follow the conduct shown appropriate for this forum

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I had an experience where I somehow correctly predicted every event of a baseball game..i dont know how.....im not fkn joking either...it just happened.....I never got over that.

I had an experience one summer....really freaky.....every body i came in contact with looked at me and smiled....again Regret, I am not joking.....i am dead serious.

I cracked my head open as a child. I was supposed to be dead.....i survived.

I had a dream about my freind....really long wierd dream.....guess what...She has the SAME EXACT DREAM I DID ! We both had the SAME fkn DREAM !

[b]Regret....sometimes really wierd, amazing, and unexplainable things happen in life. It is a part of life. Is it God? Possibly....

But i am a non beleiver in your God, yet I too have experienced things that I can only classify as magical or just out of this world.

What blessings have you given ? Please clarify, because every religious person I debate with claims they have performed miracles...no offense, but I find it a rather cheesy and skeptical argument.

It's like how EVERY SINGLE Christian says "But I KNOW Gay people...they told me being Gay was a choice".....I SWEAR every Christian Fundmenalist knows a Gay person who told them they chose it......lol there must be TONS AND TONS of f@gs lol

Point is, your "miracle argument" is the unique. It may be true, but I have heard the like before. [/B]

I believe much of this post falls under scoffing at my personal evidences. I did not present these, you requested them, stating that they would help you take my position more seriously.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
[QUOTE=7689474]Originally posted by Regret
[B] I have personal evidences, that would merely be scoffed at were I to recount them.

Atleast I would.
[/B][/QUOTE]

It appears that your statement here was a lie. And has shown I was in error in presenting such. I repent of having done such a thing. I know you do not care, but I have lost more respect for you due to your duplicity in this instance.

A blessing is a specific statement guided by the spirit as to an illness or or need. It is presented by one who holds valid Priesthood authority, and is done in the name of Jesus Christ. I will not relate the specific wording of blessing as I believe such is inappropriate.

Once again you have moved the subject towards homosexuality, even though you and I have exhausted our avenues for dialogue on the subject. This is a habit that causes me to dislike pursuing discussion with you.