Spider-Man vs. Punisher and Wolverine

K, saw this in another thread. Wondered what everyone else thought.

Standard equipment for everyone (Spider-Man has Iron Spidey costume, Frank has twin assault rifles and hidden handguns and knives, and Wolverine...has the brown costume).

Fight takes place in an urban (city) setting, no civilians and none of the combatants are holding back. No PIS/CIS.

Spider-Man 6/10. Very close match.

Alone, I'd probably give them better odds (not majority, just better), but Spidey will use their teamwork to his advantage.

i say Spidey wins seeing as he has the Iron suit. if it was just regular spidey, id say Big Pun and Wolvie take the majority though. 6-7/10

but. for this fight, Iron Spidey 9/10 IMO

Originally posted by braz
i say Spidey wins seeing as he has the Iron suit. if it was just regular spidey, id say Big Pun and Wolvie take the majority though. 6-7/10

but. for this fight, Iron Spidey 9/10 IMO

Oh, man. I totally forgot about the Iron costume. I was giving my vote based on current Spider-Man in his normal costume.

Current Spidey in normal costume wins it 6/10.
Iron Spidey wins it 9/10.

Wolverine and Castle win 10 times out of 10 so long as they use their heads and cooperate. This fight would last a whole... 4 seconds... maybe. Wolverine lunges in as per usual, Spider-man flips over him as per usual... where Frank (who anticipated this obvious move) hoses Petey down with gun fire. Spider-man's fighting still is horribly suited for this type of combat. He spends far to much time in the air where is speed is moot. Gun fire aimed at center mass will leave Spider-man with no options of avoidance as he can't change his momentum in mid air and can't contort his body to the point that a barrage of bullets aimed at center mass would miss him. Someone with Franks skill, someone who can put a full round through a quarter and still have change for the parking meter (and who has shot the web shooters of Spider-man), will have no problem tagging Spider-man if he is presented with the opportunity, and that is something that Wolverine can easily provide. Spider-man can't compete with Wolverine in melee combat in any sort of capacity which leaves him with avoidance and webs for ranged option... but forces him to the air, where Frank takes him out.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine and Castle win 10 times out of 10 so long as they use their heads and cooperate. This fight would last a whole... 4 seconds... maybe. Wolverine lunges in as per usual, Spider-man flips over him as per usual... where Frank (who anticipated this obvious move) hoses Petey down with gun fire. Spider-man's fighting still is horribly suited for this type of combat. He spends far to much time in the air where is speed is moot. Gun fire aimed at center mass will leave Spider-man with no options of avoidance as he can't change his momentum in mid air and can't contort his body to the point that a barrage of bullets aimed at center mass would miss him. Someone with Franks skill, someone who can put a full round through a quarter and still have change for the parking meter (and who has shot the web shooters of Spider-man), will have no problem tagging Spider-man if he is presented with the opportunity, and that is something that Wolverine can easily provide. Spider-man can't compete with Wolverine in melee combat in any sort of capacity which leaves him with avoidance and webs for ranged option... but forces him to the air, where Frank takes him out.

true however your forgetting about his spidersense he would know what they have planned and do something else. i still think wolverine and punisher will still win but it will take longer than that

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine and Castle win 10 times out of 10 so long as they use their heads and cooperate. This fight would last a whole... 4 seconds... maybe. Wolverine lunges in as per usual, Spider-man flips over him as per usual... where Frank (who anticipated this obvious move) hoses Petey down with gun fire. Spider-man's fighting still is horribly suited for this type of combat. He spends far to much time in the air where is speed is moot. Gun fire aimed at center mass will leave Spider-man with no options of avoidance as he can't change his momentum in mid air and can't contort his body to the point that a barrage of bullets aimed at center mass would miss him. Someone with Franks skill, someone who can put a full round through a quarter and still have change for the parking meter (and who has shot the web shooters of Spider-man), will have no problem tagging Spider-man if he is presented with the opportunity, and that is something that Wolverine can easily provide. Spider-man can't compete with Wolverine in melee combat in any sort of capacity which leaves him with avoidance and webs for ranged option... but forces him to the air, where Frank takes him out.

So, is this a Spider-Man who is completely obvlivious as to who he's fighting? I think that's too damn obvious strategy for Spider-Man NOT to figure out. 😬

"Okay, Wolverine's lunging at me. I should move away. Hm...I wonder what Frank is gonna do with that gun pointed at me. Spider-sense tingling! Frank's going to shoot at me if I move that way! I think I'll try something else. I'll move this way instead, web away, dodge the gun shots, web up Wolverine at the same time, close the distance to Frank while dodging, web him up or punch him, and then return to the freed Wolverine (since I webbed him up only half-assed). Then I'll hand him his ass one-on-one, like I know I can do."

Yea. That's just one way really. I didn't even take the environment into consideration.

Originally posted by marvelprince
K, saw this in another thread. Wondered what everyone else thought.

Standard equipment for everyone (Spider-Man has Iron Spidey costume, Frank has twin assault rifles and hidden handguns and knives, and Wolverine...has the brown costume).

Fight takes place in an urban (city) setting, no civilians and none of the combatants are holding back. No PIS/CIS.

For the win percentage, I cannot say.

Originally posted by air beardey
true however your forgetting about his spidersense he would know what they have planned and do something else. i still think wolverine and punisher will still win but it will take longer than that

Spider-sense means little until Frank has mounted his attack by which point it will be too late. Gravity is gravity, it doesn't matter how fast Spider-man is his decent will be the same speed and he can't change his momentum in mid air. His fighting style is a huge disability.

In order for Spider-man to avoid being tagged by Frank he needs to stay grounded where is speed actually means something... but that hinders his ability to hang with Wolverine in melee combat (and those odds aren't good to begin with). IMO this fight is a huge mismatch.

Why is Spidey unable to contend with Wolverine in melee combat again?

Someone who's faster, stronger, faster reflexes, far more agile, more durable (while Wolverine is more resiliant due to healing factor), and has a precognitive ability...well, would win in melee. Wolverine's better martial arts ability is pretty futile in this situation.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Spider-sense means little until Frank has mounted his attack by which point it will be too late. Gravity is gravity, it doesn't matter how fast Spider-man is his decent will be the same speed and he can't change his momentum in mid air. His fighting style is a huge disability.

Are you assuming SM is just going to fall through the air, calmly waiting to either be shot or hit the ground?

He can jump off of something, use his web to pull him towards something or the ground, use his webs to attack Frank, dodge in mid-air, etc.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Are you assuming SM is just going to fall through the air, calmly waiting to either be shot or hit the ground?

He can jump off of something, use his web to pull him towards something or the ground, use his webs to attack Frank, dodge in mid-air, etc.

I'm not assuming anything, of course Spider-man will attempt to get out of the way but it will all be for not. Do you think his webs move faster then a bullet? Even though Spider-man is faster on the trigger then Frank you are seriously selling Castle short (but that is what his forum is good at after all) if you think that Spider-man's webs will get from point A to point B with Spider-man have enough time to yank himself out of the path of the bullet(s). He can't dodge a bullet mid air. It can't be argued. He can't change his momentum and their is no way in hell he could contort his body to avoid a shot aimed at center mass.

Spider-man jumps around. That is how he fights. In mid-air his speed means nothing and he is at the mercy of gravity. Frank Castle won't miss a mid-air Spider-man.

This is a pretty easy concept. I'm surprised it needs to be explained.

Except that Spiderman has been dodging bullets for years now... and yes, even in mid-air, twisting his body out of the way. He's too fast. When he moves at top speed he is little more than a blur. Sure, Frank is a great shot, so he is going to try and anticipate where Spidey is gonna be next... except, he's not gonna be there, because his Spider sense will warn him. And no, he doesn't have to wait for Frank to start aimimg at him before he gets warned - his spider sense has been known to warn him long before, as soon as he might walk into a trap. So does he walk into the trap...?

Spiderman takes this, easy.

Some people on this board think Spiderman is pretty much unhittable by anyone not superman, quicksilver, or flash despite the fact that he gets hit by everyone from lowly goons to venom. Also, his spidersense is way overhyped on this board. People think he can avoid any attack with his spidersense when in fact it only alerts him that he is in danger and not the source of that danger.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Why is Spidey unable to contend with Wolverine in melee combat again?

Someone who's faster, stronger, faster reflexes, far more agile, more durable (while Wolverine is more resiliant due to healing factor), and has a precognitive ability...well, would win in melee. Wolverine's better martial arts ability is pretty futile in this situation.

Spider-mans speed advantage is negateable as Wolverine's combat speed is compare and as far combat skill goes Wolverine is the superior by four orders of magnitude on a logarithmic scale. Wolverine is just a much better combatant.

In melee combat Spider-man can't a) parry and b)block, his only option is to dodge everything coming at him. He can't win a a fight be dodging and he can't engage Wolverine in melee with out being ripped to shreds. He would need to trade a hit with Wolverine to land one of his own and whos do you think will do more damage? There is also the fact that Wolverine has the reach advantage while still being a much smaller target with a lower center of gravity.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Except that Spiderman has been dodging bullets for years now... and yes, even in mid-air, twisting his body out of the way. He's too fast. When he moves at top speed he is little more than a blur. Sure, Frank is a great shot, so he is going to try and anticipate where Spidey is gonna be next... except, he's not gonna be there, because his Spider sense will warn him. And no, he doesn't have to wait for Frank to start aimimg at him before he gets warned - his spider sense has been known to warn him long before, as soon as he might walk into a trap. So does he walk into the trap...?

Spiderman takes this, easy.

1. He may be dodging bullets for years, but usually the guys wielding those guns are dumb goons, not the Punisher.

2. His spidersense can only warn him that danger is close, it can't tell him what the danger is. So assume wolverine lunges at him while Punisher aims his gun, Spiderman will realize he is in danger but he will think that wolverine is the source of the spidersense and not realize until too late that Frank fired a bullet as spiderman jumped to dodge wolverine's claws.

Punisher and Wolverine: 8/10

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Except that Spiderman has been dodging bullets for years now... and yes, even in mid-air, twisting his body out of the way. He's too fast. When he moves at top speed he is little more than a blur. Sure, Frank is a great shot, so he is going to try and anticipate where Spidey is gonna be next... except, he's not gonna be there, because his Spider sense will warn him. And no, he doesn't have to wait for Frank to start aimimg at him before he gets warned - his spider sense has been known to warn him long before, as soon as he might walk into a trap. So does he walk into the trap...?

Spiderman takes this, easy.

Go back and read my posts again before I get frustrated and say mean things about questioning you intelligence.

For the record: his spider sense DOES warn him exactly what and where the danger is, and how to best avoid it.

Spidey's blind-fought before, relying solely on his spider sense.

Originally posted by Soljer
For the record: his spider sense DOES warn him exactly what and where the danger is, and how to best avoid it.

Spidey's blind-fought before, relying solely on his spider sense.

Is that true? I always assumed his spidersense only warned him of impending danger and nothing more, which is why he could be hit by his foes.

If his spidersense is as omnipotent as you make it seem, then he should NEVER get hit, EVER, at least by his normal cast of villains.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Spider-mans speed advantage is negateable as Wolverine's combat speed is compare and as far combat skill goes Wolverine is the superior by four orders of magnitude on a logarithmic scale. Wolverine is just a much better combatant.

In melee combat Spider-man can't a) parry and b)block, his only option is to dodge everything coming at him. He can't win a a fight be dodging and he can't engage Wolverine in melee with out being ripped to shreds. He would need to trade a hit with Wolverine to land one of his own and whos do you think will do more damage? There is also the fact that Wolverine has the reach advantage while still being a much smaller target with a lower center of gravity.

Spiderman's body is still leaner and more powerful, therefore more suited for fast bursts of speed. If Wolverine used this "combat skill" ever so often I would be more inclined to believe it. Spiderman's speed advantage is never negateable, because he relies on being strong and fast like Logan does. However he is much stronger and much faster, so what does Logan fall back on? His resilience in every case they fight in. Which would be a big deal if he couldn't turn invisible in this match.