It made a HUGE difference in that particular instance. It was during that time that Mace made a massive leap in his mastery of Vapaad. If he hadn't done that Sidious' Force Lightning would have owned him. Why? Because before then he didn't have the ability to completely shield himself from the Darkside. After then he could.
Care to prove that bull shit up with a official statement from any book, comic or official source? And it was during the Shatterpoint novel that Windu has his epiphany on the Dark Side and no longer feared its use as it had no power over him.
Prove it. The evidence you, and others, have shown doesn't support what you're claiming.
Actually it does Im not repeating myself, especially when the only pro Kas'im argument is "He beat Bane"
Repost it, please.
Go back and read it please
And that is more energy than was released in when Bane's Force Attack destroyed the Rakata Temple AS A SIDE EFFECT. The majority of the energy was stopped by Kas'im's Force Shield. There is no reason to believe that Dooku could Bane's attack with as much power as Bane did. Why? Because Dooku has never Force Powers nearly that strong. Ever. You mention Dooku bringing Asajj to her knees with ease, but she isn't anything special in the Force. Bane killed a Sith Lord with the Force with very little energy expenditure. It's FAR beyond what Dooku has done.
Prove that the majority was blocked by his shield prove that it didn't just simple keep moving and destroyed the temple, Dooku doesn't have force powers that strong? Dooku never like an idiot completely exhausted himself with one overloaded blast that would have failed had there not been a building behind Kas'im. What don't you get about he drew power from the ENTIRE universe, If he unleashed that power plus his own in one single blast like Bane did, the effects would obliterate Ks'im completely, shield and all.
Bane killed a Sith Lord with the force? He did, but I hope your not referring to Kas'im, and Bane was COMPLETELY exhausted after the attack
Wrong. Bane was able to drive the direction of the battle ONLY because he knew the terrain and Kas'im did not. But anyway, what does that matter? Bane is better than Dooku. zOMG! It took Kas'im a whole minute to defeat someone stronger than Dooku!
Simply saying Bane> Dooku is Bull Shit. Bane is NOWHERE near Dooku's level, especially during PoD. Obelisk Bane yes but PoD Bane HELL NO. Bane was able to fend of and steer a battle with the "Perfect Warrior" against an form He'd never seen before, And yet you want me to believe Dooku who was adept at the 7 forms, Master of Makashi, could duel multiple MASTERS at once, could beat Mace ****ing Windu, could stand against Yoda. Would get beat by someone who couldn't overcome a fledgling Sith Lord, who only knew Djem So and only trained in it for MONTHS. Please. Use ur head silly.
Prove that Revan could do the Thought Bomb himself. In fact, first prove that he could do it AT ALL. Then show that he could do it with nearly as much power as the Sith Lords on Ruusan did. They also have far more combat Experience than anyone from Dooku's time.
I was talking about the Force Storm. How does being in ONE ridicules ground Battle = More Combat Experience? And lets not forget that the MAJORITY of the Lords on Ruusan were STRAIGHT out of the Academy.And with he exception of Githany, not one of them had held a lightsaber in their lives till that point. You = Wrong.
So he knows parts of Ataro, Juyo, and (what does Cin use? From the ep3 game it looks like form five to me) Shien. However, THAT DOES NOT MEAN HE HAS MASTERED THOSE FORMS. The only form Dooku is stated to have MASTERED is Makashi. Kas'im on the other hand has MASTERED ALL OF THEM.
Did I say he mastered them? No. Do you look stupid for typing caps on a topic I didn't even say? Yes. Mastering every form =/= Automatic WTFpwnage.
Are you joking? They are the ONLY group of Sith to ever have the might to crush the Republic on even terms.
Are you joking? Exar Kun could have, Revan could have, Malak could have, Naga Sadow could have, the only thing wrong with these is they ALL had a betrayal from within, that caused their defeat, same with The Brotherhood.
They were jokes, military might =/= force powers. Let me remind you of these key facts, The MAJORITY of the lords had not held a lightsaber in their lives till their promotion which was three weeks before there deaths, Some had been training for MONTHS, in Githany's case it was weeks, They were promoted not for their power, but for NUMBERS in WAR.
"Bane recognized him as one of the lesser students of the Academy on Korriban. So weak in the Dark Side it wasn't even worth bothering to learn his name."
These jokes are made into LORDS OF THE SITH, please. They sucked ass, and you know it.
And this makes him stronger than Kas'im how?
Out of context much, he asked for feats on Dooku. Maybe you shouldn't respond to other peoples arguments.
Bane was extremely strong at this point. So strong infact that he could kill Sith Lords with less effort than it took Dooku to drop Asajj to her knees. Regardless of how much training time Bane had he was incredibly powerful.
What are you talking about? A pin cushion of barley trying > Bane exhausting himself in one ridicules attack that any one could do. Bane was powerful yes, but a match for the likes of Dooku, any of the PT top dogs, The KOTOR and TOTJ top dogs or even Kaan, NO. And he didn't kill Kas'im the temple did.
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Actually it does Im not repeating myself, especially when the only pro Kas'im argument is "He beat Bane"
Prove that the majority was blocked by his shield prove that it didn't just simple keep moving and destroyed the temple, Dooku doesn't have force powers that strong? Dooku never like an idiot completely exhausted himself with one overloaded blast that would have failed had there not been a building behind Kas'im. What don't you get about he drew power from the ENTIRE universe, If he unleashed that power plus his own in one single blast like Bane did, the effects would obliterate Ks'im completely, shield and all.
Bane killed a Sith Lord with the force? He did, but I hope your not referring to Kas'im, and Bane was COMPLETELY exhausted after the attack/quote]
Bane killed Qordis with a force choke/crush. Bane was NOT exhausted from the attack, but from the actual lightsaber duel.[quote]Simply saying Bane> Dooku is Bull Shit. Bane is NOWHERE near Dooku's level, especially during PoD. Obelisk Bane yes but PoD Bane HELL NO. Bane was able to fend of and steer a battle with the "Perfect Warrior" against an form He'd never seen before, And yet you want me to believe Dooku who was adept at the 7 forms, Master of Makashi, could duel multiple MASTERS at once, could beat Mace ****ing Windu, could stand against Yoda. Would get beat by someone who couldn't overcome a fledgling Sith Lord, who only knew Djem So and only trained in it for MONTHS. Please. Use ur head silly.
I was talking about the Force Storm. How does being in ONE ridicules ground Battle = More Combat Experience? And lets not forget that the MAJORITY of the Lords on Ruusan were STRAIGHT out of the Academy.And with he exception of Githany, not one of them had held a lightsaber in their lives till that point. You = Wrong.
Are you joking? Exar Kun could have, Revan could have, Malak could have, Naga Sadow could have, the only thing wrong with these is they ALL had a betrayal from within, that caused their defeat, same with The Brotherhood.
"Bane recognized him as one of the lesser students of the Academy on Korriban. So weak in the Dark Side it wasn't even worth bothering to learn his name."
What are you talking about? A pin cushion of barley trying > Bane exhausting himself in one ridicules attack that any one could do. Bane was powerful yes, but a match for the likes of Dooku, any of the PT top dogs, The KOTOR and TOTJ top dogs or even Kaan, NO. And he didn't kill Kas'im the temple did. [/B]
And again, nobody needs feat wars here to determine who's better in a light saber fight. We might know MORE about Dooku, but Kas'ims mastery is more obvious.
And the fact that he couldn't overcome Bane with a form he never showed him proves he's not all that he's cracked up to be.
Uh lets see, he created a shield around him, and he was left unaffected, while the temple collapsed. Perhaps you should read more before arguing.
Exactly, I was arguing that he didn't "absorb the blow" if he did the temple wouldn't have even fallen, and we have the book saying that the Temple was shaking BEFORE it talks about Kas'im. Maybe you should instead of arguing for others know what the **** your talking about.
Bane>Dooku. Not the other way around.
Oh wow with such a convincing argument I have to conced!
This doesn't take ANYTHING away from the likes of Kas'im, Bane, or Kaan.
Yes it does, It takes the collective might of 26 to do what 1 could do.
Exar Kun? Hardly. Malak? With Revan's help maybe. Sadow? The illusionist? Please. Revan was the closest to bringing down the republic and destroying all the Jedi, until Sidious came along.
Ulic nearly conquered the Republic and would have if it weren't for Aleema, Malak and Revan nearly conquered it, and Sadow would have to if it weren't for betrayal.
WOW, lets take 1 or 2 quotes and make them out of context. Bane's darkside potential surpassed everybody in the brotherhood of Darkness, COMBINED. Once he reached it nobody could take him, at the time.
Except you know Kas'im. Were arguing PoD Bane not Obelisk which would rape Dooku.
Lol..I can name you 10+ people who were more powerful than Dooku. Including Bane. [/B][/QUOTE]
Lol. Once again your arguments are soooo goood, I have to concede.
And no Im not Biased against PoD I infact like the characters, except Kas'im there just overall not that strong compared to the other timelines
And the fact that he couldn't overcome Bane with a form he never showed him proves he's not all that he's cracked up to be.
1. Bane's strength in the dark side of the force and mastery of it was incredible, he had grown pretty much as strong in the dark side as we ever see of him just prior to their duel.
2. Bane knew the temple inside out, he was able to use this to his advantage and escape the temple as quickly as possible.
3. Bane was incredible with a saber too, and he was quick and strong and he was only fighting to defend himself and escape, which makes a huge difference in a fight.
Due to these three factors, Kas'im not being able to defeat Bane with his dual sabers says nothing bad or lesser about him.
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Not to mention the list of people he's owned
Mace Windu
Obi Wan twice
Ventress
Sora Bluq
Tholme
Grevious
Stood toe to toe with Yoda twice
Quinlan Vos
AOTC AnakinThat alone is more impressive then anything Kas'im has ever done, when Kas'im tools someone on par with Mace Windu then he'll be in contention to take on Dooku till then no.
When Kas'Im "owned" Mace Windu, it was before TPM, and then, Mace diden't even know Vapaad and wasen't even half as powerful or skilled as he was in AOTC.
if Dooku had fought ROTS Mace, he would have been beaten down within a minuite.
So I woulden't count Mace when his power wasen't even completely cultivated yet.
Originally posted by Darth Sexiest
When Kas'Im "owned" Mace Windu, it was before TPM, and then, Mace diden't even know Vapaad and wasen't even half as powerful or skilled as he was in AOTC.
if Dooku had fought ROTS Mace, he would have been beaten down within a minuite.So I woulden't count Mace when his power wasen't even completely cultivated yet.
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Count Dooku wins for several reasons:1.) The greatest user of Makashi. With his superb mastery of this lightsaber against lightsaber form he was able to take on the likes of Yoda and Anakin w/Obi-Wan, all who were powerful duelists.
2.) Battlemaster of the Jedi Order. He has mastered all the forms except Juyo/Vapaad.
3.) Was said to be one of the best Jedi ever to go through the Order.
Kas'Im is deadly, but I doubt his Jar'Kai can take on Dooku's Makashi.
Where is the proof that Dooku knew any of the other Forms besides Makashi and Shii-cho?
I've never heard of him knowing, let alone mastering any of the other Forms.
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
And the fact that he couldn't overcome Bane with a form he never showed him proves he's not all that he's cracked up to be.
Exactly, I was arguing that he didn't "absorb the blow" if he did the temple wouldn't have even fallen, and we have the book saying that the Temple was shaking BEFORE it talks about Kas'im. Maybe you should instead of arguing for others know what the **** your talking about.
Oh wow with such a convincing argument I have to conced!
Yes it does, It takes the collective might of 26 to do what 1 could do.
Ulic nearly conquered the Republic and would have if it weren't for Aleema, Malak and Revan nearly conquered it, and Sadow would have to if it weren't for betrayal.
Except you know Kas'im. Were arguing PoD Bane not Obelisk which would rape Dooku.
Lol. Once again your arguments are soooo goood, I have to concede.
Or the fact that Bane knew his moves inside and out, knew the temple well, and still got his ass handed to him when Kas'im unleashed Jar'Kai on him. Try again.
The point which as usual you missed was, that even when he unleashed his Jak Kari that Bane was not overwhelmed in seconds, and yet still fought him albeit it was a defensive battle but still fought none the less, Had Kas'im been the "Uber WTFpwnage" your making him out to be he would have owned Bane in seconds after busting out his style much like Exar Kun did to Vodo. Your wrong, stop arguing for other people, and badly at that.
You do understand the concept of force shield right? You don't get affected by a force attack, while your surroundings do. SO yes, he absorbed the blow, but his surroundings don't have a force shield. Therefore, you are wrong again.
No shit sherlock, The point was which you once again missed, the original person I was arguing with said that the Temple getting destroyed was only a side affect and Kas'ims own force shield helped destroy it, I said No it simple was blocked and passed him by thus destroying the temple. Im not wrong. YOU need to stop arguing for others, and read the ****ing posts and fully comprehend them before typing.
I only need to convince the logical, coherent debaters.
Oh, your including yourself in that?
I'm assuming you're referring to the force storm? Revan's force storm was NOWHERE as big as the one they created because there were more bodies and minds.
Wanna prove that. With pictures of Revans force storm....oh thats right you can't, since all we have is word of mouth and what he(The One) says perfectly describes the PoD storm. You have no proof, so STFU.
Ulic didn't do shit. He was working for Exar Kun. And Sadow had less of a chance than the likes of Revan.
Again you idiot, I said Exar Kun first and his general Ulic nearly took Coruscant but was betrayed by Aleema, unless you wanna argue that didn't happen. Sadow like Ulic nearly took Coruscant and may other key worlds but failed when he was betrayed by Jag and his illusins stopped, unless you wanna argue that too didn't happen.
Read the title of this thread pointdexter
No shit I didn't bring Bane up it was your fellow "logical and coherent" debtors who did, with the "ZOMG Bane > Dooku" And you keeping it up, retard.
Ad lot better than yours.
What have you said? Kas'im> Dooku because of a quote? An EXTREMELY debatable quote. If Dooku mimicked the same attack Bane did to Kas'im, Kas'im would be obliterated.
"He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the UNIVERSE; the slightest whip-crack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash into the wall." - ROTS novel.
Now if a goddamn flick of his wrist is enough to break Kenobi's shield and send him flying, If Dooku unleashed that power and his own in one full blast and completely drained himself Kas'im would be annihilated.
The point which as usual you missed was, that even when he unleashed his Jak Kari that Bane was not overwhelmed in seconds, and yet still fought him albeit it was a defensive battle but still fought none the less, Had Kas'im been the "Uber WTFpwnage" your making him out to be he would have owned Bane in seconds after busting out his style much like Exar Kun did to Vodo. Your wrong, stop arguing for other people, and badly at that.
Erm, Exar Kun still didn't pwn Vodo, he had to rely on his saber being able to cut through Vodo's stick (speaks of strength, not dueling ability), Vodo was still able to defend himself perfectly against Kun's attacks, and the fight in the following issue was described as 'furious', which implies that it wasn't completely one sided.
Wanna prove that. With pictures of Revans force storm....oh thats right you can't, since all we have is word of mouth and what he(The One) says perfectly describes the PoD storm. You have no proof, so STFU.
You're the one providing the assertion, it is up to you to provide proof, not up to anyone else to prove a negative. Since when does 'calling lightning from the sky' equate to what Bane did in tPoD.
"He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the UNIVERSE; the slightest whip-crack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash into the wall." - ROTS novel.Now if a goddamn flick of his wrist is enough to break Kenobi's shield and send him flying, If Dooku unleashed that power and his own in one full blast and completely drained himself Kas'im would be annihilated.
Disregarding the fact that this post displays a clear misunderstanding of how the force works, Kenobi's force defence sucks, Assaj was able to lift him up with the force and completely paralyse him.
Erm, Exar Kun still didn't pwn Vodo, he had to rely on his saber being able to cut through Vodo's stick (speaks of strength, not dueling ability), Vodo was still able to defend himself perfectly against Kun's attacks, and the fight in the following issue was described as 'furious', which implies that it wasn't completely one sided.
Actually it was pretty one sided, Kun was toying with him in the beginning actually posing that if Vodo could win (which he knew he couldn't) he would return to the Light. Then he proceeds to completely WTFpwn Vodo with the Double Blade. And really Kun was the strongest being alive in that age and a lightsaber prodigy, Vodo is NO comparison. And this is all really pointless irrelevant misdirection.
You're the one providing the assertion, it is up to you to provide proof, not up to anyone else to prove a negative. Since when does 'calling lightning from the sky' equate to what Bane did in tPoD.
Since the one described it ravaged his armies, called lighting from the sky that rained down on them and the fact that REVAN TAUGHT BANE the damn power = PoD Storm, without Bane and Kaan I doubt that those other 24 Lords are even equal to Revan combined. But again this is pointless.
Disregarding the fact that this post displays a clear misunderstanding of how the force works, Kenobi's force defence sucks, Assaj was able to lift him up with the force and completely paralyse him.
How is that? Assaji wasn't a joke herself, she was able to scare Anakin and use the force against him, and Im asking, what comic did she do this to Obi Wan in? Again since we know Dooku can draw in power from the entire universe, and just a flick with little concentration can tool Kenobi, if he did the same attack that Bane did to Kas'im, Kas'im would be completely destroyed.
Actually it was pretty one sided,
Care to provide some proof?
Kun was toying with him in the beginning actually posing that if Vodo could win (which he knew he couldn't) he would return to the Light.
And? Vodo was actually holding back in their fight, Kun was fighting with no limitations.
Then he proceeds to completely WTFpwn Vodo with the Double Blade.
You see, what you're doing is using your interpretation of the comic, and trying to pass it off as how the fight actually happened. What I saw was Vodo being able to block everything Kun threw at him perfectly, I saw frustration on Kun's face when everything he was throwing at Vodo was completely ineffective, I saw the fight being described as 'furious' in the next issue, which indicates that it was a somewhat close fight. I'd also like to point out that there's no telling how long that fight took, as it is a comic.
And this is all really pointless irrelevant misdirection.
It's really not irrelevant, you were saying that if Kas'im was anything special, he should have been able to destroy Bane because Bane had never been up against his form, and you then used the Kun - Vodo duel as an analogy. Kun was clearly not able to pwn Vodo with his alien saberstaff form, and so your original premise fails. It's all pretty simple really.
Since the one described it ravaged his armies,
Funny, all I remember was The One describing the attack as taking out one scouting party, what are you talking about?
called lighting from the sky that rained down on them
There could have been a thunderstorm, it could have simply been use of TK.
and the fact that REVAN TAUGHT BANE the damn power = PoD Storm, without Bane and Kaan I doubt that those other 24 Lords are even equal to Revan combined. But again this is pointless.
I wasn't denying that Revan knew the attack, I was just pointing out that there's no proof that Revan's attack on the Rakatan scouting party was the same attack, or of the same magnitude, thereby destroying your argument that Revan is more powerful than all the sith in PoD who preformed the ritual combined.
How is that? Assaji wasn't a joke herself, she was able to scare Anakin and use the force against him, and Im asking, what comic did she do this to Obi Wan in?
Sure, she was good and all but nothing special, and the fact that she was able to completely own Obi-Wan with the force doesn't bode too well for his defence now does it. And she does it in Clone Wars: The New Face of The War pt2, pg9.
Again since we know Dooku can draw in power from the entire universe,
1. The quote says 'throughout the universe', hardly drawing power from the entire universe.
2. You seem to be confusing a jedi's connection to the force, how strong they are in the force and their own personal power with how a jedi manipulates the energy field around them that is the force. Look a little deeper, there's nothing different between a jedi using their 'raw power', or a jedi 'gathering the force from throughout the universe', one is just written more poetically. This is all basic stuff, read up on how the force works.
and just a flick with little concentration can tool Kenobi, if he did the same attack that Bane did to Kas'im, Kas'im would be completely destroyed.
1. Kenobi's force defence is weak. Assaj didn't have to exert herself too much either to completely dominate Kenobi with the force.
2. Bias is clouding your mind, all Dooku has ever shown with the force is great mastery, not raw power. First, you're gonna have to prove that his raw power is anywhere near Bane's.