Kas'im versus Yoda

Originally posted by Lightsnake Because GL hath spoken and Luke's the freaking grandson of the Force.
And I did prove it: Those quotes, fully canon, prove it for me.
and Luke's power skyrocketed in Palpatine's tutelage, last I checked.

Well then if they prove it to you then that's enough!! Unfortunately they don't prove it to everybody else who don't hide behind blanket statements.

And once more: The Chancellor has enough time to summon Sith ghosts and do crazy Sith rituals. It's a stretch to think he MIGHT be practicing a saber when he's alone? I wouldn't think he'd have time to grab a black hood and chill with Dooku in his secret underground lair. [/B]

Show me where it says sithisis is canon.. THEN prove to me that he learned saber styles during his quick getaways.. Oh that's right, how long does a sith ritual take? A lot LESS than for him to LEARN AND MASTER A WHOLE NEW STYLE AS THE CHANCELLOR. Quit being daft Lightsnake, your quotes are defeated.

I'm sorry, Sexy, but those quotes are canon by the canon policy, meaning they fly in SW. I don't care if they're enough for you or not, because they're law as far as Star Wars is concerned.
How dare I use actual proof, oh horrible me!
and GL hath spoken, end of story

as Leland Chee is concerned, if it doesn't contradict- like 'Old Wounds', then it's in. Nothing contradicts Sithisis, so it's in and there was that nice Q'n'A section at TFN I told you about.
And apparently Sith rituals take a while. Oh, you ignore how Palp had time to go hang with Dooku in a big black robe in a secret underbase?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'm sorry, Sexy, but those quotes are canon by the canon policy, meaning they fly in SW. I don't care if they're enough for you or not, because they're law as far as Star Wars is concerned.
How dare I use actual proof, oh horrible me!
and GL hath spoken, end of story

as Leland Chee is concerned, if it doesn't contradict- like 'Old Wounds', then it's in. Nothing contradicts Sithisis, so it's in and there was that nice Q'n'A section at TFN I told you about.
And apparently Sith rituals take a while. Oh, you ignore how Palp had time to go hang with Dooku in a big black robe in a secret underbase? [/B]

Oh ok then, then I guess Maul being reborn 3-4 times is canon, and so is legacy? Oh wait, they don't have an LFL thing on them, so their status as being canon or not is debateable. Thanks for clearing that up..

No, it's ambiguous because you want them to be. It's fine when they work for you but the moment they don't you run away and demonize. It's a cute tactic but sorry! There's more than one quote and all support the same thing, both contemporary and older sources, approved by LFL and thus CANON, what is so hard to understand?

What part about 'if it doesn't contradict it's fine?' Maul's reviving was declared by Chee to be N-canon except POSSIBLY Ressurection. The others are out of the Holocron database.

And Legacy's canon, why wouldn't they be?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, it's ambiguous because you want them to be. It's fine when they work for you but the moment they don't you run away and demonize. It's a cute tactic but sorry! There's more than one quote and all support the same thing, both contemporary and older sources, approved by LFL and thus CANON, what is so hard to understand?

What part about 'if it doesn't contradict it's fine?' Maul's reviving was declared by Chee to be N-canon except POSSIBLY Ressurection. The others are out of the Holocron database.

And Legacy's canon, why wouldn't they be? [/B]

I finally understand canon policy, and if it's not LFL approved it's debateable.

How're they ambiguous? What does 'everything' mean? I'll give you a hint, it's not 'everyting Darth Sexy wants it to be.'
And what more explanation do you want? I even gave the elaboration to said quotes. You want to check out the part where it was talking about 'all the levels of the force, all of the powers, all the guises?'

And no, Sexy, you don't: Maul's ressurections were meant to be non-canon. Sithisis fits in fine, especially as it confirmed in the Ultimate Visual Guide

Originally posted by Lightsnake
How're they ambiguous? What does 'everything' mean? I'll give you a hint, it's not 'everyting Darth Sexy wants it to be.'
And what more explanation do you want? I even gave the elaboration to said quotes. You want to check out the part where it was talking about 'all the levels of the force, all of the powers, all the guises?'

And no, Sexy, you don't: Maul's ressurections were meant to be non-canon. Sithisis fits in fine, especially as it confirmed in the Ultimate Visual Guide

Well, i've just given you instances where everything doesn't equate. Considering there are infinite techniques in the galaxy that Sidious obviously had no knowledge of (IE flow walking, looping technique), i'd say your quote is meaningless. Now if it's applied to ancient sith techniques and dark side techniques I won't argue.. But anything else the quote doesn't work as an argument, i'm sure I'll have everyone else backing that up.

No, you gave me your interpretation, there's a different.

And WTF, Palpatine even mentions The Fallanassi in one of those 'traditions', along with the Nightsisters, the Palawans, the Bundukai...

Hell, we know Fallanassi joined the Empire, what more else do you need?

all the powers of the Sith Lords and the Jedi Masters seems...rather definitive...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, you gave me your interpretation, there's a different.

And WTF, Palpatine even mentions The Fallanassi in one of those 'traditions', along with the Nightsisters, the Palawans, the Bundukai...

Hell, we know Fallanassi joined the Empire, what more else do you need?

all the powers of the Sith Lords and the Jedi Masters seems...rather definitive...

Definitive to you lightsnake, unfortunately for you, techniques such as the flow walk came about after the DSB was created, so it seems that Sidious doesn't know everything after all. And who cares if there were fallanassi that joined the empire. That equates to him knowing their technique? Please.. Your quote is useless.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Definitive to you lightsnake, unfortunately for you, techniques such as the flow walk came about after the DSB was created, so it seems that Sidious doesn't know everything after all. And who cares if there were fallanassi that joined the empire. That equates to him knowing their technique? Please.. Your quote is useless.

exactly, why would they want to teach sidious their techniques in the force

Once AGAIN: It doesn't matter when the techniques are created: They fit in fine with the earlier chronology unless there is a DIRECT CONTRADICTION, canon policy.

And why would a Fallanassi give her knowledge to Palpatine when a quote lists him knowing their powers? "He had mastered the Great Power in all its guises, levels and traditions- The Sith Lords, the Jedi Masters, the Nightsisters of Dathomir, The Followers of Palowa, the Bundakai, the Fallanasi, the Lettow, the Kashi-Mer." etc etc etc.

why would she give her knowledge to Palpatine? Curry favor with her new leader perhaps? Under threat of her life? I doubt someone as knowledge hungry as Palp would take refusal well..

Fer God's sake, Sexy: Just because the technique was invented later doesn't mean the quote doesn't still apply. the later technique conforms to earlier as there is NO DIRECT CONTRADICTION, what is so hard to understand?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Once AGAIN: It doesn't matter when the techniques are created: They fit in fine with the earlier chronology unless there is a DIRECT CONTRADICTION, canon policy.

Fer God's sake, Sexy: Just because the technique was invented later doesn't mean the quote doesn't still apply. the later technique conforms to earlier as there is NO DIRECT CONTRADICTION, what is so hard to understand? [/B]

No, it DOESNT. That's WHY your argument fails for the millionth time. "Everything" means jack shit when new powers are introduced, and when the quote is ambiguous. Get that through your skull, and learn how to debate.

Originally posted by Lightsnake

And why would a Fallanassi give her knowledge to Palpatine when a quote lists him knowing their powers? "He had mastered the Great Power in all its guises, levels and traditions- The Sith Lords, the Jedi Masters, the Nightsisters of Dathomir, The Followers of Palowa, the Bundakai, the Fallanasi, the Lettow, the Kashi-Mer." etc etc etc.

why would she give her knowledge to Palpatine? Curry favor with her new leader perhaps? Under threat of her life? I doubt someone as knowledge hungry as Palp would take refusal well..

once again, "he had mastered the great power in all its guises" aint good enough, Quotes can by hyperboles, its the same with anakin "he was the most powerful jedi by ROTS" but is it canonically proven he is? no.

Again he did not even learn nor know what the looping technique is for.

And dont treat us for a fool, i know you just made up what you said. PULL out the exact quote

Did you miss everything after that? Selective perception much?

And that's from Insider, the account of Palp and Luke's duel when it reflects their thoughts

And yet once again, the flow technique was introduced after the DSB was made, so your quote becomes irrelevant. He didn't know the flow walk and it's more than likely he didnt know a LOT of things..

quote:
Fer God's sake, Sexy: Just because the technique was invented later doesn't mean the quote doesn't still apply. the later technique conforms to earlier as there is NO DIRECT CONTRADICTION, what is so hard to understand? [/B]

No, it DOESNT. That's WHY your argument fails for the millionth time. "Everything" means jack shit when new powers are introduced, and when the quote is ambiguous. Get that through your skull, and learn how to debate.

No. The later information confirms to earlier without direct contradiction. Get this through your skull and take your fingers out of your ears:
There's earlier info and it's canon, k? then something else comes out...it fits into the earlier canon, got it now?
The everything applies to new powers. Got it? All the traditions of the Jedi Masters and the Sith Lords, the Force in all its guises and levels.

Can't be clearer, sorry.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Did you miss everything after that? Selective perception much?

And that's from Insider, the account of Palp and Luke's duel when it reflects their thoughts

No. The later information confirms to earlier without direct contradiction. Get this through your skull and take your fingers out of your ears:
There's earlier info and it's canon, k? then something else comes out...it fits into the earlier canon, got it now?
The everything applies to new powers. Got it? All the traditions of the Jedi Masters and the Sith Lords, the Force in all its guises and levels.

Can't be clearer, sorry.

Get over it lightsnake, your quotes aren't accepted by anyone except you. They are ambiguous, and as the old seniors of this forum say, blanket statements that have no bearing unless you can explain them. He didn't know the flow walk, he didn't know the looping technique. If he knew EITHER he would have crushed Luke, and ran the galaxy for eternity, if he could see the future and alter it. Your point has been defeated, now you're just desperate.

Originally posted by Lightsnake

No. The later information confirms to earlier without direct contradiction. Get this through your skull and take your fingers out of your ears:
There's earlier info and it's canon, k? then something else comes out...it fits into the earlier canon, got it now?
The everything applies to new powers. Got it? All the traditions of the Jedi Masters and the Sith Lords, the Force in all its guises and levels.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Get over it lightsnake, your quotes aren't accepted by anyone except you. They are ambiguous, and as the old seniors of this forum say, blanket statements that have no bearing unless you can explain them. He didn't know the flow walk, he didn't know the looping technique. If he knew EITHER he would have crushed Luke, and ran the galaxy for eternity, if he could see the future and alter it. Your point has been defeated, now you're just desperate.

And how would either of those techniques help him against Luke, I'm curious now? Palpatine was overconfident, but he had an incredible gift for foresight. Flow walking lets you go in the PAST...the problem is you can't CHANGE it. And how would the loop ability help him in a saber duel when the two were purely equally empowered by the Dark and Light?

And Kadesh? That means Exar mastered lightning, fancy that.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I love how anyone is you and Kadesh.

And how would either of those techniques help him against Luke, I'm curious now? Palpatine was overconfident, but he had an incredible gift for foresight. Flow walking lets you go in the PAST...the problem is you can't CHANGE it. And how would the loop ability help him in a saber duel when the two were purely equally empowered by the Dark and Light?

And Kadesh? That means Exar mastered lightning, fancy that. [/B]

The flow walk lets you alter the future lightsnake, the looping technique would make Luke unable to sense him. There's two techniques that would help him. Therefore, you have no proof he learned those. In fact there's nothing to remotely suggest that.

Originally posted by Lightsnake

And how would either of those techniques help him against Luke, I'm curious now? Palpatine was overconfident, but he had an incredible gift for foresight. Flow walking lets you go in the PAST...the problem is you can't CHANGE it. And how would the loop ability help him in a saber duel when the two were purely equally empowered by the Dark and Light?

And Kadesh? That means Exar mastered lightning, fancy that.

And yes exat mastered lightning but does he use it? do we ever use it in a debate? NO

Sure, let's bring Escape in.

and Flow Walk doesn't let you alter anything, that's the catch: What's happened, happened. Did you NOT read LOTF? The future flow walking Jacen Solo couldn't affect what was happening and Jacen knew he couldn't change what happened in the past.

The point of the technique is, you go back, leave an imprint, but that's it. You can't go into the future, because the future is unwritten. Always in motion is the future