vader vs. malak

After the war he was found by Darth Traya to be Force-sensitive, and she began training him in the ways of the Sith at the Trayus Academy on Malachor V. Disagreeing with his master's teaching methods, Nihilus, along with fellow apprentice Darth Sion, plotted and turned against their dark mistress. They cast Traya down, stripped her of her power

Source?

Vader.

He has crushed the dark woman with a huge tree, a feat that is easily above anything we've seen from Malak, or almost anybody. It doesn't sound that impressive, but, if you see the comic, you'll know what I mean. With that one showing alone it can be concluded that he'd rip through Malaks force defences and thrash him with the force. He has also:
*Held Boba Fett in place with the force, his grip around him being compared to steel.
* Popped a severed (living) head while it was in a chest without any concentration.
* Thrown a choking officer dozens of feet into the air.
* Ripped apart wrosher trees with the force (the same type of trees that were unphased by heavy blaster fire).
* Choked one person, sent another one flying dozens of feet, and threw a sword with the force into a third, all at the same time with no gestures or apparent struggle.
* Choked an officer from a ridiculous distance (In ESB).
* Threw debris at Luke (and another Jedi Master in RODV) to overwhelm them.
* Choked a Jedi while unarmed.
* Held Master Choi, a very powerful Jedi Master, in the air with the force.
* Threw his lightsaber an assumed great distance and killed one person and mortally wounded another (lived due to immediate medical attention), while a Jedi that was closer to the targets was trying to use the force to stop him.
* When circled by predators, he reached out sending them all flying dozens of feet in every direction.
* Owned a group of common thugs with the force, one of whom got sent flying back 50+ feet into a stone wall which crumbled with the force of the blow.
* Learned from Sidious.
* Resisted Sidious' lightning, with no saber and after being beat down, long enough to pick him up and throw him down the reactor shaft.
* A lot more.

As far as lightsaber skills go:
* Carved through 20+ wookiees in seconds.
* Beat Obi Wan.
* Beat ESB Luke.
* Toyed with one of the most deadliest duelists in the galaxy as if he was a child (using kicks and showing a lot of agility) in Crimson Empire.
* Owned two Jedi Knights who had seen action in the clone wars and worked very well together.
* Beat down some padawans in one move...
* Uses elements from many different styles (even the "Most dangerous" Including Makashi and Djem So) and uses only one hand with immense physical strength.
* Has lightsaber resistant armor. (A powerful swing from Luke only sizzled his shoulder).
* A lot more...

Fell free to add anything...

You really need to understand that Vader's abilities are severely limited. That's not to say that he was the second most powerful guy in the galaxy, but the galaxy didn't possess a "Darth Malak" at this point. Malak could either kill him with force lightning, or would defeat him with a saber blade after a long fight. Vader just doesn't possess ALL the necessary tools to defeat Malak.
And don't forget Malak had the ability to force drain Jedi, an ability that we don't see in the PT era, whether the technique was lost or it was useless.

Well, he's better with the force and a lightsaber, and can block lightning with his saber, so...

Even if Malak shot out lightning at Vader, a simple force push would send Malak flying back faster and further then the lightning would come at him.

Originally posted by jollyjim311 Well, he's better with the force and a lightsaber, and can block lightning with his saber, so...

Even if Malak shot out lightning at Vader, a simple force push would send Malak flying back faster and further then the lightning would come at him. [/B]

Now you're assuming a simple force push will take care of Malak, or that the force push will send him flying..

Given what we've seen of Vaders abilities, and, given that we've seen nothing impressive from Malak, yeah, I'd say that's fair. It's obvious that Malak had to be good, but, there's no reason to simply assume that he's as good as Vader.

Well what some people are forgetting is there was a span of 20 years that Vader was in his suit before we actually see him, so any EU references that describe his actions during that time isn't contradicted by the movies, being that its a different time period. Had he fought all the Jedi during the purges as he did against OB1 in ANH, he would have lost. As we undoubtedly know, he did survive, and killed many Jedi by himself in the process. So you cant say that suited Vader is slow and clumsy. You can however say that suited Vader in the OT was slower and less agile.

Vader is extremely strong physically and in the force. The only thing that we know Vader cant do is lightning, which really isn't that that big of a deal. We've only seen one person die of it, and ironically enough it was Vader, but no one else had died from it. Do we know that Malak was at least 80% of Sidious? If not, then Vader is more powerful, and thusly has that advantage.

I'd give this to Vader after a tough fight, though.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Given what we've seen of Vaders abilities, and, given that we've seen nothing impressive from Malak, yeah, I'd say that's fair. It's obvious that Malak had to be good, but, there's no reason to simply [b] assume that he's as good as Vader. [/B]

Malak was #2 in an order of tens of thousands. He did have force lightning and force drain as his main weapons. I would say he's as good as, if not better than Vader in a suit.

Well people put Dooku above Malak. And people put Vader above Dooku. Even if this doesn't work, I am putting my money on Vader. Malak has lightning, choke, confusion/stun, Force Removal (that's what he does in the final fight, he removes some of your Force stuff), etc.

Of course, Vader could beat him in the saber and he can fight telekinetically with the saber and Force.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Vader.

He has crushed the dark woman with a huge tree, a feat that is easily above anything we've seen from Malak, or almost anybody. It doesn't sound that impressive, but, if you see the comic, you'll know what I mean. With that one showing alone it can be concluded that he'd rip through Malaks force defences and thrash him with the force. He has also:
*Held Boba Fett in place with the force, his grip around him being compared to steel.
* Popped a severed (living) head while it was in a chest without any concentration.
* Thrown a choking officer dozens of feet into the air.
* Ripped apart wrosher trees with the force (the same type of trees that were unphased by heavy blaster fire).
* Choked one person, sent another one flying dozens of feet, and threw a sword with the force into a third, all at the same time with no gestures or apparent struggle.
* Choked an officer from a ridiculous distance (In ESB).
* Threw debris at Luke (and another Jedi Master in RODV) to overwhelm them.
* Choked a Jedi while unarmed.
* Held Master Choi, a very powerful Jedi Master, in the air with the force.
* Threw his lightsaber an assumed great distance and killed one person and mortally wounded another (lived due to immediate medical attention), while a Jedi that was closer to the targets was trying to use the force to stop him.
* When circled by predators, he reached out sending them all flying dozens of feet in every direction.
* Owned a group of common thugs with the force, one of whom got sent flying back 50+ feet into a stone wall which crumbled with the force of the blow.
* Learned from Sidious.
* Resisted Sidious' lightning, with no saber and after being beat down, long enough to pick him up and throw him down the reactor shaft.
* A lot more.

As far as lightsaber skills go:
* Carved through 20+ wookiees in seconds.
* Beat Obi Wan.
* Beat ESB Luke.
* Toyed with one of the most deadliest duelists in the galaxy as if he was a child (using kicks and showing a lot of agility) in Crimson Empire.
* Owned two Jedi Knights who had seen action in the clone wars and worked very well together.
* Beat down some padawans in one move...
* Uses elements from many different styles (even the "Most dangerous" Including Makashi and Djem So) and uses only one hand with immense physical strength.
* Has lightsaber resistant armor. (A powerful swing from Luke only sizzled his shoulder).
* A lot more...

Fell free to add anything...

Also for the force add that his command was so tremendous that he could even heal his self from his wounds. But couldn't sustain the rage necessary as he got to happy he was healed.

As for saber skills he beat Maul who was clearly more agile then him.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Actually I'd give the force advantage to Malak, considering he was quite powerful at his peak, and Vader's force abilities were severely limited in his suit.

Not really.

The only things that were compromised were Anakin's immense potential and his agility/mobility. Remember: he trained, extensively, in the Dark Side under Palpatine for twenty years, as well as gaining immense control over his emotions. He learned the virtues of patience and tactical thinking. Rise of Darth Vader and Empire Strikes Back shows us that he's capable of ripping apart entire environments and using them against his foes.

I'd say he's superior to Malak in the Force. But Malak would win if he can get off a good burst of lightning.

Originally posted by Escape81
Not really.

The only things that were compromised were Anakin's immense potential and his agility/mobility. Remember: he trained, extensively, in the Dark Side under Palpatine for [B]twenty years, as well as gaining immense control over his emotions. He learned the virtues of patience and tactical thinking. Rise of Darth Vader and Empire Strikes Back shows us that he's capable of ripping apart entire environments and using them against his foes.

I'd say he's superior to Malak in the Force. But Malak would win if he can get off a good burst of lightning. [/B]

I've never read any comic detailing the journeys of Vader, so I could be wrong. But yes, if Malak's force lightning is strong enough, Vader doesn't stand a chance. It's debateable whether or not Malak could use the drain on Vader..

To be honest, Vader is probably slightly stronger with the force, however I'd reckon that Malak would annihilate him with a saber.

Why? Malak was never stated to be a prodigy, he beat Kavar who was never stated to have been the best, he beat Bastila...WOW...and lost to Revan, now Im not saying he was shit with a saber especially since the databank remarks on how he created special lightsabers to take advantage of his physical attributes. He must have been pretty damn good, but theres nothing to suggest he's on Vaders level of physical power. Since they are about the same height, and Vader because of his suit is stronger then Malak. I'd say Vader takes it in the dueling department since Malak is an unknown and Vaders credentials have already been well established.

Originally posted by Dessel
To be honest, Vader is probably slightly stronger with the force, however I'd reckon that Malak would annihilate him with a saber.

And just how do you "reckon" that, Nebaris?

And just how do you "reckon" that

Vader is slow, unagile and unskilled in the movies. Lucas has come to terms with it, and anyone who can properly interpret swordfighting would know this.

Nebaris?

Is that a play on the words, 'Nebar Foxis'?

Note that he took out the Nebaris, LOL.

And the Vader is slow discussion has been thoroughly argued already, especially in the gigantic Vader vs. Tyrannus thread. Vader isn't slow or unagile man.

Yes, he is. You can see this through the movies, and GL has confirmed this.

But there are more factors than that, consider the time period of the movies for one, the actors, the EU, etc. And where did you get the quote?

The movie is the highest for of canon, Cyborg Vader is at his peak in them, and GL heavily indicates what is obvious from the movies on the video here - http://starwars.com/episode-i/bts/me1/6.html. Basically, in terms of dueling, PT >>> OT, GL refers to Vader as a 'half crippled droid' (IIRC), and basically confirms that his vision for the PT was to make the duels much faster and more skilled, in contrary to the unskilled, slow duels of the OT.