Originally posted by Nikkolas
Who's to say Vader could choke him? Who has Vader effectively choked who was remotely close to him in The Force? Movie-wise, he only killed non-Force users with it.ROTS Vader, however, did do it briefly to Obi-Wan, I think. However, Dooku would school ROTS pre-suit Vader given how rash, arrogant and totally stupid he is.
I give Dooku/Maul good odds against OT Vader in sabers given Mauls's style would be horrible for Vader's one-handed Form V which relies solely on pure strength to beat his opponent. Add Dooku in there and I don't see it going well. However, if Vader used The Force to hold Maul off, he might be able to beat Dooku after a long saber duel.
notice that in the very first thread he said ONE of the three, not two, so how are you going to throw Maul and Dooku in together? Ok, movie wise, who has Dooku effectively killed with lightning that's a force user? Who has he killed with it PERIOD? Vader killed somone on a different ship. How would Dooku block his throat from being crushed in a matter of seconds, maybe minutes? I think we've been through this in the Vader vs Tyrannus thread, though i could be mistaken...
GG has no force powers and prolly wouldn't get close enough to Vader to do damage, what would he do, shoot at him? We saw what that did for Han. Maul is just not on his level. the only thing Maul has is speed, which is not enough alone to defeat vader. Dooku....*long sigh*...go read that thread, lol.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
What is all this crap about Tyranus losing to OT Vader? The last I checked we decided on a stalemate, even though Dooku was winning on the poll. So none of you Vader lovers better start posting that bullsh*t.And to answer your question - Dooku has fought and beaten Mace Windu. If by raw power you mean physical strength then I would put Mace on Vaders level. After all he did defeat a whole friggin droid legion with his fists. Also Makashi parries, not blocks. Meaning it doesnt have to meet other forms strength for strength.
right, but we've already established that Makashi cant do shit against Djem So, or Vader's customized style. And really we called a truce cause no one was budging. You think simple lightning will do the trick, i (we) think a simple choke could put it away...but i think we all know the truth, huh Ox? 😱 😉 😎
Lol. I think I have stepped on enough peoples toes by arguing relentlessly for Dooku as of late. Ive decided to just sit and watch others debate for a while - hence the reason I havent posted in the Kas'im vs Dooku thread. Though when I see you saying that OT Vader would beat Dooku, well, I just couldnt resist.
right, but we've already established that Makashi cant do shit against Djem So, or Vader's customized style. And really we called a truce cause no one was budging. You think simple lightning will do the trick, i (we) think a simple choke could put it away...but i think we all know the truth, huh Ox? eek! wink cool
Well, i did misread it. Oh well.
Originally posted by Darth Godzilla
Besides, F. Lightning can be blocked. I've never seen that happen with a choke.
True. But force choke has to do exactly that - choke them to death. So Dooku, or whoever Vader is performing the technique on, just has to break his concentration to release the hold. It would take a good 15 seconds to choke another force user to death anyway. Plenty of time to break Vaders concentration.
I admit theres no way for vader to win GG in asaber duel, GG is way to fastv for vader, only way is to execute force crush, one where grivious cannot defend against, and vader has choked force users before, in the purge while holding of 2 other jedi at the same time.
Not to mention he destroyed tanks on the battlefield alone in Eaw
and his force push is incredible pushing tark against gravity and causing a massive dent. Alot of people underestimate Vader,
Originally posted by Rampant oxLets not forget crush can kill you in less than 4 seconds
True. But force choke has to do exactly that - choke them to death. So Dooku, or whoever Vader is performing the technique on, just has to break his concentration to release the hold. It would take a good 15 seconds to choke another force user to death anyway. Plenty of time to break Vaders concentration.
@ nikkolas: All good, my friend...no worries
@ Ox: lol, you see i give Dooku his just dues in that thread, but to think that Dooku could decimate vader from 20m away is just ludicris. I know Dooku has more overall experience in the force, but Vader had/has a stronger connection to it, plus YEARS more training under the most powerful Sith ever. Not saying Vader would pwn Dooku, i never said that actually, but to think Dooku could treat Vader like he did OB1, or as he did in AOTC, is just not right either.....admit it.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
True. But force choke has to do exactly that - choke them to death. So Dooku, or whoever Vader is performing the technique on, just has to break his concentration to release the hold. It would take a good 15 seconds to choke another force user to death anyway. Plenty of time to break Vaders concentration.
How in God's name do you try to break someone's concentration when you're being strangled to death?
Well vader choked tsui choi and he threw his lightsaber to slash vaders mask off,so yes, you can counter grip with force attacks.
, if you were to defend force crush, you would have to put up a shield BEFORE the user executes crush, once it gets on you. 100% death or just get out of sight, Now crush is instant, its the very highest level of grip and this one is around your whole body, not just the neck
Originally posted by Decayvader is far better than dooku in saber combat and in the force, and dont forget lightsabers block lightningdooku is better with a saber and has force lightning.
Originally posted by DecayWrong again, force crush will send GG into obliviongrievous has more strength, speed, and 4 times the weaponry. hed take some damage from vader using the force but hed win in the end.
Originally posted by Kadesh
[B]vader is far better than dooku in saber combat
Umm, since when? I recall Dooku having received extensive training from the 2 greatest sword users of the era (Yoda and Sidious), being described as a lightsaber prodigy, having decades more experience and being a master of the ultimate refinement in lightsaber to lightsaber combat. Vaders form may have an advantage over Dooku's, but in terms of saber skill I would put Dooku a fair notch above Vader.
and in the force, and dont forget lightsabers block lightning
.Vader learnt undet the most powerful sith lord ever for like 20 years,
Dooku learned under one of the strongest light side users for 60+ years and then received about 10 years from Sidious. So again, Dooku has more experience and more training.
Had he lived and studied from DE palp then vader would be even stronger in my opinion
Well, he didnt. Point moot.
Originally posted by Rampant oxActually since already vaders form is above dooku and considering the fact that he is even stronger in saber combat than anakin whom already beat dooku fair and square, vader takes this in saber combat and he was able to fence of 6 jedi at once while choking the other 1. Lets not forget sia lan wezz was a decent jedi while tsui choi was extremely fast, not as fast as yoda but fought with incredible speed. and also lets not forget Vader suspended Tsui choi in the air for a period of time to get shot by the clones
Umm, since when? I recall Dooku having received extensive training from the 2 greatest sword users of the era (Yoda and Sidious), being described as a lightsaber prodigy, having decades more experience and being a master of the ultimate refinement in lightsaber to lightsaber combat. Vaders form may have an advantage over Dooku's, but in terms of saber skill I would put Dooku a fair notch above Vader.
Originally posted by Rampant oxYes but vader has a far greater advantage by knowing how to use his raw power against an opponent while keeping calm. Not toforget vader has more dark side experience than dooku. And dooku completed his training a long time ago when he reached master level for jedi. And if dooku has more experience, how did vader manage to shred a 1 m thick blast door apart like it was nothing? And having the ability to tear apart and destroy tanks on the battle field as well as rampaging through dozens of soldiers with the force as proven in Eaw? Like i said, none of us will agree to each other
Dooku learned under one of the strongest light side users for 60+ years and then received about 10 years from Sidious. So again, Dooku has more experience and more training.[/B]
Originally posted by Rampant oxi said if he did, and lets not forget the ancient sith acknowledged vader when they built is throne on korriban, think im lieing? read Empires end then
Well, he didnt. Point moot. [/B]
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Vader.He has crushed the dark woman with a huge tree, a feat that is easily above anything we've seen from almost anybody. It doesn't sound that impressive, but, if you see the comic, you'll know what I mean. With that one showing alone it can be concluded that he'd rip through most force defences and thrash him with the force. He has also:
*Held Boba Fett in place with the force, his grip around him being compared to steel.
* Popped a severed (living) head while it was in a chest without any concentration.
* Thrown a choking officer dozens of feet into the air.
* Ripped apart wrosher trees with the force (the same type of trees that were unphased by heavy blaster fire).
* Choked one person, sent another one flying dozens of feet, and threw a sword with the force into a third, all at the same time with no gestures or apparent struggle.
* Choked an officer from a ridiculous distance (In ESB).
* Threw debris at Luke (and another Jedi Master in RODV) to overwhelm them.
* Choked a Jedi while unarmed.
* Held Master Choi, a very powerful Jedi Master, in the air with the force.
* Threw his lightsaber an assumed great distance and killed one person and mortally wounded another (lived due to immediate medical attention), while a Jedi that was closer to the targets was trying to use the force to stop him.
* When circled by predators, he reached out sending them all flying dozens of feet in every direction.
* Owned a group of common thugs with the force, one of whom got sent flying back 50+ feet into a stone wall which crumbled with the force of the blow.
* Learned from Sidious.
* Resisted Sidious' lightning, with no saber and after being beat down, long enough to pick him up and throw him down the reactor shaft.
* A lot more.As far as lightsaber skills go:
* Carved through 20+ wookiees in seconds.
* Beat Obi Wan.
* Beat ESB Luke.
* Toyed with one of the most deadliest duelists in the galaxy as if he was a child (using kicks and showing a lot of agility) in Crimson Empire.
* Owned two Jedi Knights who had seen action in the clone wars and worked very well together.
* Beat down some padawans in one move...
* Uses elements from many different styles (even the "Most dangerous" Including Makashi and Djem So) and uses only one hand with immense physical strength.
* Has lightsaber resistant armor. (A powerful swing from Luke only sizzled his shoulder).
* A lot more...Fell free to add anything...
It can be generally agreed that he'd beat down Maul or Greivous with the force alone, but, about his battle with Dooku, he has a few specific advantages to his name:
* Semi lightsaber-resistant armor. The light swings of Makashi that are enough to take out a non- armored opponent (like we see in AOTC, what happens to Obi Wan) would not take out Vader so easily.
* Form V. Form V uses a lot of physical strength to overwhelm opponents, and is particularly good against Makashi. Vader is one of the physically strongest duelists we've seen.
* Vader is patient and thinks. Speaks for itself (Not saying Dooku isn't, but, it will help a lot).
* Greater dark side studies. He has spent more time with Sidious training, and has access to many of the dark holocrons that were previously stored within the Jedi Temple.
* Knowledge of opponent. One of the biggest factors in this fight that has been overlooked, is that Vader knows of Count Dooku, while Vader is a mystery to Dooku. He knows what he is capable of, how he acts while fighting, and what it takes to beat him.