ok advent here are my arguements, correct me if im wrong ok?
Originally posted by Advent
Obviously, as we didn't see Vader crushing too many vehicles in the movies. 😛 But the direct quote, and which comic/novel/etc. it came from is what I wanted to know.
Well we did see the magnitude of his powers in empire at war, like the devstation his force crush can create on the battle field, Theres a reason why wookiepedia put that "he might have been". It is because They are well aware that is crush is indeed powerful. I mean if he really had mastered force push like the pic i posted, he surely could have done the same with his other powers like grip, crush or some others
Originally posted by Advent
And the same cannot be applied for Count Dooku? That's pretty much cutting double standards in the sense that Vader, in my book, isn't leagues above Dooku to the point where he can tool him a la DE Sidious, or NJO Luke for example.
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Yes count dooku can do that if he gets choked, who said he couldnt?
Originally posted by AdventYes but yoda had like 800 years of experience and even he could not defeat sidious who had only like what maybe 60-90 years of experience?
I don't see how if Vader could escape a Force grapple used by Dooku, Dooku cannot escape one down by Vader. While it's true Vader has roughly 10 more years experience with the Darkside, Dooku has an estimated 40 more years experience overall with the Force, granted majority spent with the Lightside. It is worth noting, however, that he is described as even more powerful as a Sith Lord, which - added to his already praised skill - speaks well.
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Originally posted by AdventWell you can play Eaw to find out that it is true1.) The source that mentioned Vader being able to "crush light vehicles" is from Wookiepedia, no direct given source. Even if you were to find the source (which I doubt exists), it is still only a "maybe", which could equate to hyperbole.
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Originally posted by AdventCouldnt the same be with dooku?2.) What I'm saying is that it's highly doubtful it'll be so easy as to apply one Force maneuver, and beat Dooku given his prowess in the Force.
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Originally posted by AdventWhat is there to say dooku could do the same with all the experience and knowledge he had? Like take master vrook, he is far more experienced that bastila and yet bastila was able to use battle madeitation while vrook does not have that ability
3.) A comparative weakling to Dooku from the TOTJ era, Tott Donetta, was able to replicate Luke's power:[/B]
Originally posted by AdventYes, grip can surely be countered even with a force push i think to break your opponents concentration. But crush is where the user focuses his hate and anger, its similar to exars amulet which the power doubles with every pulse of anger tho i have no proof of this
The lesser version of Crush, Force grip, can be countered, I believe anyways. I doubt Force Crush is infallible, let alone the what - one instance Vader used it on an officer?
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Originally posted by AdventNo one can force attack while dueling, not unless theres an opponing or a saber lock and note its dangerous and risky for dooku to pull of lighting and a very close range
4.) Rex also brings up a good point of concentration. I doubt he'll stop mid-duel while lightsabers are a'blazing to pull a move he's demonstrated - to my knowledge - once.
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Originally posted by AdventWell id put them on par honestly
It's not going to be that easy for Vader, and the same goes for Dooku with his Force attacks. It definitely won't be so clear and cut as you and others make it out to be.
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Originally posted by AdventWell force crush is disputed as a dark side power, And i believe dark side attacks are stronger when you focus all your rage and hate, sorry tho i cant prove this, this is only what i believeForce Crushes don't really "differ", at least in the sense you are talking about. Windu's power is apparent, and his Force skills are nothing short of amazing, I'd say. To think that Windu wouldn't exert a multitude of power is pretty asinine, especially against someone like Grievous, who Yoda acknowledges as a enormous threat to the Jedi and Republic.
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Originally posted by AdventYes and note grievious is a cyborg built from metal, and Vader could crush tanks 5-7 times bigger than vader is, And as i said, vader tends to kill his opponents, he make sure they dies. Just play Eaw to see itVader's crush may be more powerful, but it's the fact that Windu - who is known to be a considerable Force user - used it on a non-Force using being, and he survived with lung damage. It didn't kill him.
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Originally posted by AdventWell like you said before, get out of sight is an effective way of defending attacks like this. Or prehaps push the air outwards to counter this power which i dont know if dooku can doAnd the "outline" is only shown in KOTOR from what I've seen, however, it does "push down" I suppose, but again - that's not to say it'll be the end all, be all solution to Dooku.[/B]
Originally posted by AdventAnd why would vaders skill not be as good as anakin? yes he might be slower but his physical strength makes up for that and he has far more experience than he had as anakin,It's the fact that his lightsaber skills are already considerably excellent, and arguably on par with Vader's own. Vader is not as good as a duelist as Anakin, so please do not use the same rehashed argument of "Anakin beat Dooku before, Vader can do it!".
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i pulled this quote from wookiepedia and i suggest you read it, Tho you might find it unreliable, Jedi academy and back this up and prove this is true
Around 3.5 ABY, Vader had ordered ASP-19 droids, lightsaber combat droids based off the ASP-series droid, produced to fight him in sparring matches. They were faster and stronger than an ordinary man, and programmed with the knowledge of a hundred sword masters and a dozen fighting styles. Vader defeated them time and again, and ordered a new, improved batch of them. As his finesse improved they became too easy to defeat, even in a two-on-one match.
Originally posted by AdventWell but he fended of the jedi masters easily until he got back stabbed several times, And before the battle begn, he had blown apart a blast door as if it was nothing and he did it with pure anger, notice he was screaming obi wans name after that. And vader had done well parrying the attacks of the jedi and he oculd force push one of them while blocking another jedi with his lightsaber, He nearly got his ass handed because he was backstabbed several times and even after his arm got cut off still clutched with the cortosis blade, he was able to react quickly and used it with the force to spear the jedi in the red outfit. And notice he stabbed and sliced of sia lan wezzs hands even before her dead body hit the floor.Anyways, he did not fight Tsui Choi constantly during Purge. He swung at Vader like one time to my recollection. As well, neither the Dark Woman nor Tsui Choi compare to Dooku in terms of dueling, and I'd even argue speed, as well. Vader's saber skills aren't as good as they were, sorry to say. He could not keep up with Dooku in a pure lightsaber match. I don't doubt he'd put up a good fight, but I'd say he'd ultimately lose in the end. [/B]
And i found this rather intresting tho it would be a contradiction
The Emperor, having gone out of his way to keep Vader alive, took an alternative viewpoint. Though it was true to say that he had not bargained for an apprentice "more machine now than man", Palpatine was of the opinion that most of the limitations on Vader's potential power were not physical but psychological. He believed that were Vader to fully confront his choices and disappointments, to completely shake himself out of his despair, that he would have been able to "reawaken the incredible power within him"
And these were palpatines thoughts
"Sith power resided not in the flesh but in the will."
As for that quote which could be just his thoughts. Darth sion has proven this, like how? his flesh and body had been crushed and choped and yet his will kept it together