Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Threads never die. They are immortal. They are banished for weeks, months, sometimes for years, but like the demons of hell and bad case of STD, they return from their slumber, only to torture the minds of the reasonable and feed on the insane illusions of fanboys.So...you haven't read the posts the Pro Jean team makes?
Well, from what I have seen, that seems to be a norm for Storm fanboys, but still...
spent fifteen minutes reading posts pages 19 to 27. Yesterday went through pages 13 to 18.
I speak in good faith.
Originally posted by don't shivBased on your complete and utter inability to debate in this and all other thread and to offer anything more than gibberish spam, I think it's safe to say no one of import really cares what you think. Mmmkay? Good. Now head along back to the kids table.
heres how this debate goespro Storm/Jean team presents compelling evidence,
pro Jean/Storm team carefully considers the submission
pro sTORM team accept the opposing teams imput incorporating some of it into the fight scenario
pro jEAN team accept some of the opposing team's imput incorporating none of it into the fight scenarioradicall rebel fringe [soljer xmarksthespot ...] start slinging insults "incompetent" "stupid" "delusional" "sweety"... punctuated by comments like "I couldn't care less/ I don't care[see soljers post above]... Jean ftw ."
Debate rages on
Originally posted by 2damnloudAs a matter of fact, Jean did catch a bullet in mid air that was going straight for xavier AND told Professor Xavier that it was alien based... just based on the molecular resonance of the bullet. Telepathys usually win in most battles due to the unfair advantage of their power. Telepaths can hit you from any angle, you don't see anything coming at you until you hit the floor face first muttering the periodic table incoherently, have too many options to take you out, can screw with your senses, and THEY don't even have to be in the same vicinity as you are in. Thought processes are a lot faster that lighting. TK and TP's happen instantenious. There is no way stor is going to win this one. It'll be one hell of a fight but jean will preveail
[B]No, what's sad is noone has given any clear peramenters for the "speed of thought"-- a second??? a half second??If a bullet was coming at Jean at 50,000 miles per second, she wouldn't be able to do anything at all. It's too fast.
You obviously can't conceive of those kinds of speeds. You can go to China.....from NY.......FIVE times......in ONE SECOND.
It's NOTHING for Storm to take her out.
If Jean's thinks something, and it happens a half seocnd later, it's still not faster than 50,000 miles per second.
She would not be able to do anything with the lightning bolt coming at her at that speed.
They'd probably kill each other at the same time.
Also, no clear perameters have been given for this so-called "lag" in Storm's power. You all act as if this "lag" somehow gives Jean an unlimited amout of time to react😆 The most she'd get is like a millionth of a second, at BEST😆.
"the speed of thought" is a vague concept, and given the ambiguous time frames stated, it's STILL not fast enough for Jean to do anything with 50,000 miles a second.
In conclusion, Jean is as dead as dead can be.
😮💨
I'll observe from here on out. Have at it guys. You earned it!!!! [/
Originally posted by Tshern
I'll probably be laughing my butt off when I face mine. I hope you can see all your signatures too, they're cool.
I hope I won't see my signatures. The first ones I made...ehh...
Remember that scene in Alien movie where the mutant thingy said "Kill...me..."? Yeah. Now, replace that mutant thingy with my first sigs and you get the feeling I have when I see them.
I'd rather not face them. They might torture me. Baddd. bored
Originally posted by jffxex1980
As a matter of fact, Jean did catch a bullet in mid air that was going straight for xavier AND told Professor Xavier that it was alien based... just based on the molecular resonance of the bullet. Telepathys usually win in most battles due to the unfair advantage of their power. Telepaths can hit you from any angle, you don't see anything coming at you until you hit the floor face first muttering the periodic table incoherently, have too many options to take you out, can screw with your senses, and THEY don't even have to be in the same vicinity as you are in. Thought processes are a lot faster that lighting. TK and TP's happen instantenious. There is no way stor is going to win this one. It'll be one hell of a fight but jean will preveail
in this fight Jean is MINUS Phoenix Force.
x and s you seem quite Hostile
Actually if you remember, lightning starts from the sky and the ground first then meet up. So it shoulden't take lightning time at all to strke from the sky to the ground because it already starts from the ground first.
I know for a fact that this match is really, really close and it will only last for a second or two. I'll just leave well enough alone and call it straight down the middle with no more debate.
Originally posted by The Weather God
Actually if you remember, lightning starts from the sky and the ground first then meet up. So it shoulden't take lightning time at all to strke from the sky to the ground because it already starts from the ground first.I know for a fact that this match is really, really close and it will only last for a second or two. I'll just leave well enough alone and call it straight down the middle with no more debate.
Do as you please, at least it will save us the trouble of one more ignorant storm fanboy.
Originally posted by don't shiv
storms power works at such and such a rate at such and such efficiency, yadda yadda yadda.Conclusions based on 21st Century science.
Storm's powers are not bound by man's limited grasp of science in the 21st Century.
figures and percentages quoted are immaterial.
a]Storm is bonded with the Elements on a genetic levell. The true figure for the maximum speed of wind, electromagnetic energy emmissions etc... is contained within her DNA and not some outdated science manual written by Einstein or Newton or Jermaine Dupri.
b]Storm has the ability to edit / override / command / redifine / the natural laws
c] Storms genes are always on. Storms powers are always on,
and she is always holding them back. [/B]
A.) Nope it's been stated in many comics that it takes a blink of an eye for her powers to work.
Also remember that X-Men/Marvel science book WG posted....well in there(Official Marvel Book) it says it takes Storm seconds to create meterological phenomena and it gives and explanation on how her powers work. Plus her handbook says she psionically manipulates weather patterns.
[b]Storm has the ability to edit / override / command / redifine / the natural laws
B.)Doesn't make a difference since she has limits....and since her powers work too slow. A bloodlusted Storm who said she was going to kill can't even knock out Silicon Breast Emma with lightning.
c] Storms genes are always on. Storms powers are always on,
and she is always holding them back.
C.) So are telepaths....and by that logic so is every other mutant. Storm has to think to manipulate weather patterns...that's just how it works. "Blink of an eye" = Lag.
BTW Storm wasn't holding back against Emma since Storm stated that she was going to kill her.
Originally posted by The Weather God
Actually if you remember, lightning starts from the sky and the ground first then meet up. So it shoulden't take lightning time at all to strke from the sky to the ground because it already starts from the ground first.I know for a fact that this match is really, really close and it will only last for a second or two. I'll just leave well enough alone and call it straight down the middle with no more debate.
She can pull electricity out of the air molecules around Jean Grey. I have seen her inside of buildings pulling lightning bolts out of the molecules around a target. Check out X-Men 61. So she can get to JEan even faster as the bolt could start right where Jean is. 😉 Jean's powers would have to travel from her to Storm while STorm's powers could start right on JEan if that is what she wanted. Simply cause a whirlwind to start on Jean to disorient her and render her unconscious or use a lightning bolt or what-have-you.
Originally posted by jffxex1980
As a matter of fact, Jean did catch a bullet in mid air that was going straight for xavier AND told Professor Xavier that it was alien based... just based on the molecular resonance of the bullet. Telepathys usually win in most battles due to the unfair advantage of their power. Telepaths can hit you from any angle, you don't see anything coming at you until you hit the floor face first muttering the periodic table incoherently, have too many options to take you out, can screw with your senses, and THEY don't even have to be in the same vicinity as you are in. Thought processes are a lot faster that lighting. TK and TP's happen instantenious. There is no way stor is going to win this one. It'll be one hell of a fight but jean will preveail
You know something? A man once already shot his bullet out at Bishop. Yet, between the time from when the bullet left to gun to where it reached where Bishop was, Storm was fast enough to summon a wind and move Bishop out of harm's way.
Jean has to concentrate harder to bring her powers online than Storm does. Storm has this fight. Jean's only hope for winning is if she can take Storm out at the first split second of the fight vis telekinesis. If she fails in this (and she will), Storm takes the fight very easily as her powers easily overwhelms Jean's.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Actually, Storm's psionic commands need to travel to give the weather patterns a command. And the lightning has to appear too.
Actually, her commands don't have to travel as she has a unity with the lifeforce of the planet. She is spiritually, psychically and physically bonded to the lifeforce of any planet she is on or the cosmos when in space. This is partially what gives her an advantage over Jean.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Her Bio-electricity?
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Too slow.Storms lightning does not work at the speed of light...as stated on panel there's a lag. "Blink of an eye"
Storm has to think to create the bolt and then bolt has to travel and connect with the target.
Step 1: Storm and Jean think. Jeans action occurs....Storm dies.
Step 2: Had Storm lived her bolt of lightning would have been created and would have connected.Beats me...but Telekinesis inhibits her powers.
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http://img159.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=04470_axmb_103_449lo.jpgStorms resistance has been stated on panel to be to Deeper Probing. And on panel to have an indomniable will which only protects her from mind control like telepathy. However Storm has no protection from a psi-fry or brain shut down. She's been put down on panel by that before. And even her defences to probing and mind control aren't full proof...as she's been violated that way before.
TK does not inhibit Ororo's powers. Storm has used her powers through Jean's force-field before. Check out Unlimited issue 7. She has also used her powers through Invisible Woman's force-field. And just for the record, Jean Grey can neither use TP nor TK through Sue Richard's force-field as this has been show in continuity.
In that Bloodties story you mention, Storm was written down because you had one character, Exodus, trying to take on both the Avengers and X-Men. Nobody short of the Silver Surfer can do that realistically. Therefore, key characters in this story (like Storm and Sersi. Sersi should have been able to transmute him from the start) were written down. I really have a problem when Marvel pulls stuff like this. They do this often times with Magneto as well. You'll have Storm displaying power levels far beyond Magneto in story arcs where he is not present. All of a sudden, when we get a Magneto story arc, Storm's powers are downplayed so Magneto can be a threat to the team collectively.
This was a weakness the writer tried to think up for Storm since at her full power she could have challenged Exodus on her own. These weaknesses did not work. This is the same case with Storm fighting off people like Xavier and Shadow King and then you get a Morlock telepath that hurts her. Storm is such a powerhouse mutant that unfortunately, she has to be written down at times for the villains in certain stories to have credibility. Once a character (like Storm or Magneto) bests a telepath like Xavier or Shadow King, that automatically places them beyond the scope of Jean's TP to take them down. There is no point in bringing up low level telepaths working against Storm as she was just written down in those stories. Her willpower grew apace her character under the 17 years CC wrote her. She was not able to resist telepaths early on (as Emma demonstrated in Dark Phoenix Saga), however, as she grew in character, so did her will to reflect it. She was written VERY consistently like this for many years save one or two stories where she had to be written down in order for the threat to be credible. Though she was not overtaken in these instances. Now, in the times you are referring to where psis weaker than Jean defeated Ororo, that was during those 7 years between Claremont and Davis. Here, the writers stripped her of her indomitable will which is what enabled her to best telepaths. Davis reestablished it when he came onboard and CC came back and gave a new dimension to her electrical powers to where she can use it to scramble TP.
In these debates, we are not going with write downs. Storm has been around for about 30 years. 23 years of that supports her being able to easily withstand Jean Grey's TP assaults. Honestly, Jean would be very foolish to try and divide her focus between TP and TK against this opponent. She would do better to pull all of her concentration in her TK. Still, she would lose as Storm is a much more powerful mutant and will overwhelm her.
Oh yea, in Uncanny 175, Mastermind (a psi) confronted the X-Men. Before Mastermind or anyone could do anything, Storm summoned all the elements at her command at once filling the space with a massive tempest.
Come to think of it, In Black Sun, Storm instantly froze an entire area, if memory serves right. 😄
In Uncanny 152, White Queen was trying to kill Storm with that telepathic attack. White Queen said so. It has never been stated anywhere that Storm can only resist deep mindprobing and mental takeover. That's silly. The lady can even prevent a telepath from being able to locate her. Psylocke, enhanced by Cerebro, once tried to locate Storm, but Ororo shielded her mind from her.
Originally posted by Rutog98
[B]TK does not inhibit Ororo's powers. Storm has used her powers through Jean's force-field before. Check out Unlimited issue 7. She has also used her powers through Invisible Woman's force-field. And just for the record, Jean Grey can neither use TP nor TK through Sue Richard's force-field as this has been show in continuity.
According to Storm it does comic proof >>> Then your opinion...and I own Unlimited X-Men #7...I looked at it...and there's nothing of what you speak.
Which issue..is this IW force-field thing in.
Jean can't use TK through IW TK bubble. Jean never had TP when she was trapped in IW forcefield....Emma has used TP to get passed IW forcefield.
In that Bloodties story you mention, Storm was written down because you had one character, Exodus, trying to take on both the Avengers and X-Men. Nobody short of the Silver Surfer can do that realistically. Therefore, key characters in this story (like Storm and Sersi. Sersi should have been able to transmute him from the start) were written down. I really have a problem when Marvel pulls stuff like this. They do this often times with Magneto as well. You'll have Storm displaying power levels far beyond Magneto in story arcs where he is not present. All of a sudden, when we get a Magneto story arc, Storm's powers are downplayed so Magneto can be a threat to the team collectively.
Written down? When Emma can down Storm with a psi-force bolt? When Deathbird can screw with Storms mind via a psi scream. When Legion can shut down Storm down telepathically. When Rachel can shut off Storms mind and use her own powers against her? When the Super Skrull can hurt her via Mind Control...she could even move...Xavier had to fix her. Morlock weakling hurt her with his stab. When Emma's Probing hurts her....when she gets floored and knocked out of the sky by a psi-fry?
BTW Exodus pwns Storm.
This was a weakness the writer tried to think up for Storm since at her full power she could have challenged Exodus on her own. These weaknesses did not work. This is the same case with Storm fighting off people like Xavier and Shadow King and then you get a Morlock telepath that hurts her. Storm is such a powerhouse mutant that unfortunately, she has to be written down at times for the villains in certain stories to have credibility. However, in these debates, we are not going with write downs. Storm has been around for about 30 years. 23 years of that supports her being able to easily withstand Jean Grey's TP assaults. Honestly, Jean would be very foolish to try and divide her focus between TP and TK against this opponent. She would do better to pull all of her concentration in her TK. Still, she would lose as Storm is a much more powerful mutant and will overwhelm her.\
She fought Xavier? When? She only has telepathic resistance to DEEPER Probing as stated on panel..she's susceptible to other telepathic attacks i.e. Mind Fry and a Psi-Force Bolt....It should also be noted that her deeper probing resistance is not full proof.
Shadow King...Mind Control....Bogan power is Mind Control which is a battle of wills....Telepathy is so much more then that. A psi-force bolt is a totally different concept.
Oh yea, in Uncanny 175, Mastermind confronted the X-Men. Before Mastermind or anyone could access their power, Storm summoned all the elements at her command at once filling the space with a massive tempest.
Same issue Storm got duped by MM's illusion...and no it was not instant. The panel did not say it was instant.
Come to think of it, In Black Sun, Storm instantly froze an entire area, if memory serves right. 😄
Do you have a scan? Does the panel say instant?
In Uncanny 152, White Queen was trying to kill Storm with that telepathic attack. White Queen said so. It has never been stated anywhere that Storm can only resist deep mindprobing and mental takeover. That's silly. The lady can even prevent a telepath from being able to locate her. Psylocke, enhanced by Cerebro, once tried to locate Storm, but Ororo shielded her mind from her.
Cough*
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Locate...as in probing...
Psi-Fry = Mind Fry...no deeper probing needed.
The WQ was trying to mind control her...not Kill her...
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"I know your mind as well as I know my own...You cannot resist my telepathic assault"
No where did she say she was going to kill Storm....your
"And so wind rider will you" comment...could mean so many different things...i.e. Storm will never be Storm anymore once Emma make her a puppet.
This comment says it all:
"I know your mind as well as I know my own...You cannot resist my telepathic assault"
On a side not that lightning bolt did absolutely nothing....and to think Storm was bloodlusted.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
According to Storm it does comic proof >>> Then your opinion...and I own Unlimited X-Men #7...I looked at it...and there's nothing of what you speak.
Which issue..is this IW force-field thing in.
Jean can't use TK through IW TK bubble. Jean never had TP when she was trapped in IW forcefield....Emma has used TP to get passed IW forcefield.Written down? When Emma can down Storm with a psi-force bolt? When Deathbird can screw with Storms mind via a psi scream. When Legion can shut down Storm with a telepathically. When Rachel can get past Storm and use her own powers against her?
BTW Exodus pwns Storm.
She fought Xavier? When? She only has telepathic resistance to DEEPER Probing as stated on panel..she's susceptible to other telepathic attacks i.e. Mind Fry and a Psi-Force Bolt....It should also be noted that her resistance is not full proof.
Shadow King...Mind Control....a battle of wills....Telepathy is so much more then that. A psi-force bolt is a totally different concept.
Same issue Storm got duped by MM' illusion...and no it was not instant. The panel did not say it was isn't.
Do you have a scan? Does the panel say instant?
Cough*
http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stormandphoenixgo7.jpgLocate...as in probing...
Psi-Fry = Mind Fry...no deeper probing needed.The WQ was trying to mind control her...not Kill her...
http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stormvsemma46rs.jpg
"I know your mind as well as I know my own...You cannot resist my telepathic assault"
No where did she say she was going to kill Storm....your
"And so wind rider will you" comment...could mean so many different things...i.e. Storm will never be Storm anymore once Emma make her a puppet.
This comment says it all:
"I know your mind as well as I know my own...You cannot resist my telepathic assault"
On a side not that lightning bolt did absolutely nothing....and to think Storm was bloodlusted.
1) The Storm/IW force-field thing was an Annual where Sue came to the X-Men to get help in rescuing the FF from the Brotherhood Badoon (sp?) on Arkon's planet.
2) Emma cannot down Storm with a tp bolt as Storm is more than a match for her TP. Magneto, in Uncanny 150, resisted Xavier's psi bolt with willpower alone. Storm's will grew to surpass Magneto's. This was both stated and shown. During the Dark Phoenix Saga, Emma took down the X-Men, including Storm, with a psi-bolt. In this issue, when she said to Storm, "I know your mind as well as I know my own, you cannot resist my TP assault." Ororo responded with, "At one time, O Majesty of Evil, that was so, but no longer." This was referring to the Dark Phoenix Saga as that was the only time the two women cross swords prior to this story. Emma tried a psi-bolt here as she tried a psibolt then only to find that Storm was too powerful. In regards to Emma getting up from the lightning blast, that was because Storm just did that to chastise her for the TP assault. Her intentions were to kill Emma with her bare hands. That is a more personal way of doing it. Storm has punched holes a thousand feet deep in the streets of New York with her powers. She has completely overpowered Polaris with her lightning alone as well as overloaded Sebastien Shaw with a single bolt of lightning (okay, that was Emma in Ororo's body, but still Ororo's powers wielded by the much less skilled Emma).
Storm owns Exodus.
Warskrull had the combined power of Xavier, Psylocke and Oracle when he battled Storm. Also, Storm's will is stronger than Magneto's. Read what I said earlier about what Magneto did.
Storm was duped by MM's illusion because he caught her unaware. MM surprised attack the entire X-Men team. This does not help your case because Jean is not surprise attacking Storm here.
I don't have the issue with me. I may be going home for Thanksgiving. If so, my issues are there. I don't have a scanner though.
Originally posted by Rutog98
[B]1) The Storm/IW force-field thing was an Annual where Sue came to the X-Men to get help in rescuing the FF from the Brotherhood Badoon (sp?) on Arkon's planet.
You're talking about this?
Manipulating patterns SURROUNDING/OUTSIDE of the forcefield? Plus IW TK Energy is compeltely different to normal TK...normal TK is psionic energy. IW TK is special...I believe this was stated when she cracked Celestial Armour with her TK.
Storm says it herself, TK inhibits her powers.
2) Emma cannot down Storm with a tp bolt as Storm is more than a match for her TP.
Comic scans beg to differ.
http://img158.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=05156_Uncanny_X_Men_129_16_303lo.jpg
So much for DEEPER probing resistance huh?
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Magneto, in Uncanny 150, resisted Xavier's psi bolt with willpower alone.
Magneto is a telepath. You do know that right? See his respect thread.
Storm's will grew to surpass Magneto's. This was both stated and shown. During the Dark Phoenix Saga, /quote]Issue number please?
[quote]Emma took down the X-Men, including Storm, with a psi-bolt. In this issue, when she said to Storm, "I know your mind as well as I know my own, you cannot resist my TP assault." Ororo responded with, "At one time, O Majesty of Evil, that was so, but no longer." This was referring to the Dark Phoenix Saga as that was the only time the two women cross swords prior to this story. Emma tried a psi-bolt here as she tried a psibolt then only to find that Storm was too powerful.
You mixed up your issues....UXM #129 that happened....UXM #152 is the one where Emma tries to mind control Storm. That's what the DP saga was referring to.
So nope UXM #152 was Mind Control.
In regards to Emma getting up from the lightning blast, that was because Storm just did that to chastise her for the TP assault. Her intentions were to kill Emma with her bare hands. That is a more personal way of doing it. Storm has punched holes a thousand feet deep in the streets of New York with her powers. She has completely overpowered Polaris with her lightning alone as well as overloaded Sebastien Shaw with a single bolt of lightning (okay, that was Emma in Ororo's body, but still Ororo's powers wielded by the much less skilled Emma).
She was out to kill Emma...as soon as Emma tried to mind Control her...Storm was bloodlusted....the second time occured in X-treme...Storm wasn't bloodlusted here...but Emma still took it. This has happened twice now.
Emma is a telepath...telepaths train their minds to operate at such speed.
Storm owns Exodus.
Do you want me to put up the scans of Exodus owning Storm?
Warskrull had the combined power of Xavier, Psylocke and Oracle when he battled Storm. Also, Storm's will is stronger than Magneto's. Read what I said earlier about what Magneto did.
Mags is a telepath.
Fact Storm was destroyed....Xavier had to fix her...Banshee even got up after that very same assault.
Storm was duped by MM's illusion because he caught her unaware. MM surprised attack the entire X-Men team. This does not help your case because Jean is not surprise attacking Storm here.
No it does because it shows her natural resistance to deeper probing is not full proof.
I don't have the issue with me. I may be going home for Thanksgiving. If so, my issues are there. I don't have a scanner though.
Name of the issue then....I probably have it.
Mind Rape.
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