Will Steals Elizabeth's Thunder?

----------------------------------
If we're aware that Jack Sparrow has many different facets, shouldn't we also be aware that the other characters are capable of that same depth?

The fact of the matter is that the three main characters have layers in which they disguise their true natures. Elizabeth is no exception. She is a woman who has hidden her pirate nature behind the genteel face of a governor's daughter. In fact, we've similar types of "aggressive" behavior from her before in Curse of the Black Pearl.

Though she doesn't 'shriek' in CotBP, it just so happens that she passionately raises her voice to convince Jack to be proactive toward the goal of saving Will. How shockingly hostile! For that matter, she shouts orders and takes command of the Interceptor for a short time when the threat of danger from the Black Pearl is great.

Her reaction in DMC was not over the top, or extreme because it illustrates an important theme that resonates through out the Pirates series. Jack Sparrow believes that "there is only what a man can do and what a man can't do". In other words, there are actions and there are words. In the imfamous "screeching" scene, this same theme can be applied with interesting results.

First as it's already been pointed out, the bulk of Elizabeth's frustration lies with Jack (the only wobly-legged, rum-soaked pirate present in the scene)(Though Norrington could easily give Jack a run for his money).
Second, what is interesting to note about the sequence is that Elizabeth seems to be reverting back to the Governor's daughter role, and more importantly, that the mask she seems to have donned is in relation to Will's reappearance.

Her lack of action is what is telling. Elizabeth is a woman of confidence and more importantly, of action. When she arrives in Tortuga to see Norrington surrounded, she doesn't hesitate to pull out her sword to join the fight. Yet, in the 'screeching scene' she shrinks back and reverts to the damsel in distress role. That shouldn't have caused irritation in viewers so much as it ought have raised some important questions about Elizabeth's nature!

Her words in the scene are equally critical. She is imploring for a civilized resolution to the discord--something that Elizabeth the pirate probably would never have considered. If Will hadn't stolen her sword, another interesting and telling action incidentally, she'd probably have been in the thick of it.

The words were those of a governor's daughter, but the action of yelling to implore the men to stop in such a pointed manner was a little of the pirate escaping from the gentle-woman facade. This shows that she is having greater difficulty concealing that aspect of her personality that she tries to subdue. The scene also high lights that Elizabeth is as changeable as Jack in that she can don or discard her facade dependent upon the given situation.
--------------------------------------------
http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/movies/index.cgi?read=91190
--------------------------------------------

This person has highlighted the key factor that I find fishy about
Will. I think he steals Elizabeth's thunder. The fact that he stole her sword in the three-way-sword-fight scene could symbolise that every time Will comes back into her life she's back to the damsil in distress line.

And without him she was indipendant, and she had to revert to the "Oh, Oh the heat!" part when Will took all she had to defend herself.

That's major symbolism right there, mates.

...................Anyone?.....................

.................Anyone at all?................

😕 😕 😕 😕

i'm sorry! i thought someone else would've answered you by now, or be able to 'communicate' with you. but could you sum it up a bit? 'cause it's a little confusing. lol

Well, as usual, I am in near total disagreement.

I don't think that Elizabeth was slipping back into the damsel in distress mode.

She tried to appeal to all three men in various ways...the rum-soaked pirate comment was aimed more toward Jack than the other two, although it could have applied to any of them, then the bit about being civilized was probably aimed toward Will, and the whole fainting thing was more than likely geared toward Norrington...the only man out of the group who was been present both times when Elizabeth fainted (well, one was faked).

So no, Will is not stealing her thunder, nor is he trying to repress her. If that were the case, he'd never have taught her to fight with a sword in the first place, would he?

I'll teach ye to steal me thunder Will darn you!!

that was a Jack sparrow reference lol

and the line alsi has a double meaning apparently..a sexual one..

😆

Liz: *SLAP* *stomps away*

Will: B..B..But.......... BUT!

Jack: Oh goody!

dude S&S, I'm totally with you. brilliant post, mate. awesome. 😄

Lol thank you. Surreal you have a very good point, I do see that she was directing her dialog to the three men, but that was not my point. I thought she was losing her ablility to fight back fairly with Will talking her sword. And just like at times it seems Will is making her stronger, like when he taught her how to sword fight, he doesn't really let her use it.

He doesn't let her fight, he literatly TOOK AWAY her ability to fight. And that's gotta mean something.

The text inbetween the ------- is not mine, it's of someone else's at WordPlayer. My name there is The Anonomous Spelling Mistake.

Might've spelt that wrong.

And I think I've sumed it up pretty good after the ----- after the link.

Good point^^ he took it away from her and she got PISSEd at being given an order too.

He's a tea leaf..

for those who don't know British slang that means teef

for those of you who don't know Black British slang that means thief

Hmm, both are good points. To be truthful, though, if I were Will in this scene and Jack pulled a sword on me, I would take the nearest one I saw, even if it happened to be my fiancee's. So it could be argued that he sees him and Liz as a team, just with different roles. It's like the "guard the chest" line. That was of the utmost importance and she didn't do it just because she didn't want to be told what to do. They could have easily made her just as capable with a sword taking the chest in one arm and battling with the other. But she abandoned it to certain doom. So you could look at it as Liz always there to back Will up.

But like Surreal was saying, her main goal is to get them to stop. Think about it. She at least cares for all these guys and in a 3-way swordfight, it would be really easy for one of them to die. This is a time when they need to stick together.

Liz is a woman of action: resourceful, bold, quick-witted. But she also uses her mind. She knew she would need the letters of marque before she went looking for Will. She is the one that comes up with a strategy for the battle between the Pearl and the Interceptor. Even when Jack first rescues her from drowning she's not overwhelmed by the fact she nearly died and was just saved by a fugitive. She keeps her head and argues for his release. So I think she would use whatever idea she came up with (fainting) to get their attention.

he soved her behind though as if to say "MY WOMAN ME PROTECT!

Wouldn't you want your man to protect you? I would be a little suspicious of a guy who made me do all the dirty work. Plus, doesn't he have a right to be protective of her around Jack?

I had a question, but I didn't want to post a new topic. What is the significance of the "only a little" line?

Will: You threatened Miss Swann.
Jack: Only a little.

I don't want to go into the love triangle in this thread, but why does Jack say this? Is he just being a smart-ass? Did he pick up on Liz's lust for adventure? Is he trying to tell Will he was mostly bluffing? I ask because it ties in to the fact of how Will is so protective of her to begin with. He wasn't there when Jack saved her, so people must have been gossiping, and when their first thought was "a pirate's in town," Will's was "omigod, Liz!"

Not that I'm for W/E. I'm just playing devil's advocate. You can say a lot of negative things about his character, but I don't think it's justified to say that he's overbearing and purposely restrictive of her.

Liz doesnt seem to want to be protected..(most occasions anyway) she can handle herself..that wasnt even a dangerous situation..

now when Liz really..REALLY needs it Will's not there to protect.

eh, i wouldnt say he was overbearing... but he does seem to keep her on a pedastle a lot of the time. and not a "china doll in a case" pedastle... but just a pedastle of his ideal girl--- spunky, beautiful, but also completely honest. i dont think he has a very clear view of who Elizabeth actually is. So thats clearly going to lead to miscommunications between them.

I dont think Will meant to insult her by taking or sword or requesting that she guard the chest, but she may have taken it that way. She may have felt very insulted by it.

To her, it may have suggested that Will wasnt interested in what she thought about the situation-- that he expected her to take a back seat to his ideas.

Its not really important what Will actually meant by any of that--- its the way Elizabeth took it, ya know? thats the real story of communication.

That's not exactly his fault, though. And he does try.

When swords are around, it's always a dangerous situation. Jack's not exactly the best swordsman and what if Norrington had just taken it from him and pointed it at Liz before she could dodge or counter it?

Sometimes it doesn't matter if someone wants protection or not. A lot of little kids would love to cross the street without looking, but Mom and Dad always grab them. I'm not saying women need men's protection (hell I'm going into the military in May and women should be allowed into combat), but I'm also big on protecting those you love. That's all Will's trying to do. It just doesn't usually work out for him.

didnt say it wasnt his fault...just saying he's not there when she needs it most..which means a lack of a certain emotion towards Will..the raising of another towards Jack.

Times Liz needed saving:
Nearly drowning: Will's at work being responsible! He's not invited to some uppity promotion ceremony.

Being kidnapped: Will tries, but is outnumbered and hit on the head. I have a feeling this would have happened to Jack, too.

Away from the pirates: Will does save her! Then she comes up with the strategy to get away from the Pearl (woo!) and has to save Will. That's just because he's in the wrong place.

Island: Again, Will was "leverage" and it was Jack Barbossa wanted to get rid of and he was probably just really pissed at Liz then. He wanted Will alive and you can't break free of six or seven undead pirates holding you. Getting off the island? Liz rescues herself.

Almost shot: Who had the other gun? Jack! Will knew the only way to kill Barbossa was to let his blood touch the chest. So yeah, Jack killed Barbossa so he wouldn't kill Liz, but it wouldn't have done anything if Will hadn't been where he was.

Jail: Will is trying to get her out of jail by naively listening to the devious short man. Mistake, but not really his fault.

Kracken: Will's a little busy being thrased about by a tentacle. Notice he's not protecting Liz by shouting "get the gun." He wants her in on the action there.

So while Jack is always there for Liz, it's out of opportune moments.

for the second time..did I SAY it was his fault he's not there..I'm saying Liz feels something different with Jack than she does with will and IMO its t do with protection...

The scene on the pearl..that was jack DECIDING to risk his life for a woman...it wasnt an opertune moment..he could have left her to die but he didnt..He comes back for her..this has to mean something to her when she sees him.

guys, its SOOOO obvious that Jack and Will have a secret plot to turn Liz into Xena.

😄

but serious...as Terry said..jack "HATES that side of himself"...