We've heard that the writers don't want the movies to end the same way, but it would be a little nice for someone to sing "a pirate's life for me," you know? Give some more credit to the ride that inspired it all? And no matter how the ending went, someone could sing it. It would be so appropriate since the pirate age is ending, they're all going to remaind pirates at heart.
Surreal, to answer your question:
I work part time with the Orlando Shakespeare Festival and have done costume design and construction for several years now. Historically speaking, there are several ways to answer your questions.
the social norms of the time meant a corset for a girl over the age of 12, anyone who had the social status of a young lady would have the undergarments of a young lady. The undergarments of the time, without fail, included a corset.
Elizabeth has been wearing undergarments of that nature her whole life, if you set this in any historical context. The corset her father orders for her from London in the beginning of CotBP was a new model that emphasized a different shape on a woman. Prior to the 1720s, the shape of the bodice was different because they didnt have access to certain types of boning to stitch into the corset. Thus, they emphasized a fuller chest, meaning the corsets were inevitably looser. the corsets Elizabeth wore prior to this one would have allowed her more breathing room, but still held structure for the elaborate bodices she is seen wearing even as a girl of 12.
The new corset emphasized a smaller waist and flatter, more pushed up cleavage (in the style of the French, the trend emerging from Marsailles) and contracted the ribs. Many women actually suffered broken ribs and punctured lungs as a result of these corsets. It is no surprise Elizabeth couldn't breath in it.
So to answer your question, anytime Elizabeth is seen wearing a period dress (basically, whenever she is in Port Royal) she would be wearing a corset. This would mean during the first scene in COTBP, during the ceremony where she faints, during the final scene of COTBP, and with her wedding dress in DMC.
Hope that clears things up for you.
Corsets of the time were not about the waist but about the breasts, Kate. And yes, children often did wear corsets, but they were rarely as restrictive as what you might think they'd be. Especially in the hot Jamacian weather, Elizabeth probably only wore a minimal cloth style of corset, which explains the extreme yanking and pulling that she seemed to be so unsused to.
Look at how easily she moved in her wedding dress. She did an awful lot of running and moving about in it, and she didn't seem to be all that restricted. The dress may have had some light boning in it, but I don't think it was a true corset. Corsets were such a pain that often they were only used for major social events, or to hold court.
My knowledge isn't as extensive as yours, of course.
the corset is about the breasts and the waist. cinchers and stays used whale boning to pull in the smallest part of a woman's waist (which is just under the ribs), to make a v-shaped top. women worked to achieve the smallest waist possibly.
the breasts were pushed together and lifted by tiny rows of lace sewn into the top of the corset. The idea was to unite the breasts to create one full bosom. cleavage, especially between 1680 and 1750, was pushed as high up toward the neck.
a proper lady would wear a form of corset anytime she went into public. but of course, there were many kinds. Elizabeth was clearly not used to the kind she was introduced to in POTC 1. The form she had been wearing was likely a broadcloth or muslin, while the newer version she was introduced to probably was a form of simple brocade, judging by the texture.
after her traumatic corset experience at the ceremony in 1, i find it probable that Elizabeth went back to the corset/stays she had been wearing before hand.
this doesnt change the fact that to achieve the shape of her dresses, including the wedding dress, she would have had to have a corset or stay of some kind on underneath.
the point i was originally trying to make, of course, was that the dresses (which weighed upwards of 35 pounds each, along with the necessary undergarments) were a symbol of imprisonment. the fact that the beginning of her true "relationship" with Will, at the end of COTBP, takes place with her in that attire, seems to me to imply she is still, in many ways, bound by society. i think the kind of corset is pretty irelevant to the implications of it. i believe the writers have emphasized that point on more than one occassion.
along with my previous post, don't know if you are interested in the subject furthur, but,
wikipedia has a good sum up on corsets, but if you want to go a bit deeper, try Nora Waugh's "Corsets and Crinolines", or "The History of Costume" by Braun and Scheider, or "Support and Seduction: the History of Corsets and Bras."
hope that covers it. 😉
Once again, I was going off a Terry quote where he made mention of the extreme symbolism of the corset/society dressing standards, and how it fit in with Elizabeth's journey.
since nobody else is replying to your posts Kate i think i will get the convo goin again...
Surreal, I think eveyrhting Kate had said about corsets in extreme detail is ABSOLUTLEY correct. its not just about the breasts but about the waist and breats but anyways back othe main subject...It does symbolize Liz's imprisonment. And this is completely obvious because when they have the little scene where her dresses is floating to the depths of the sea its showing that she is now free to do what she wnats and we know that because after that happens she becomes herself and not this girl his is iunder rules she MUST follow but can now do what she wants.
Originally posted by Surreal_44
Kate, when, except possibly during the scene where she faints for real, is Elizabeth wearing a corset?
Terry basically says its just like the corset..Its all about what she is wearing..he old clothes and corset resemble her old way of life..she's imprisoned in that kind of life..hence the fact we see her in a prison...and she's all pasty..the transformation from the pale and pasty Liz in the cage to the tanned up pirate Liz at the end of DMC cant really be ignored..its obvious that her dress and such resemble the life that imprisoned her back in Port Royal..along with being in a prison..
let's take a minute to analyze the prison sequence. T and T mentioned the fact that it is really symbolic of their relationship.
1st comment: dad is standing 2 feet away. nuff said.
2nd comment: "if it weren't for these bars, i'd have you already."
the bars could be symbolic of several things. The restrainst of society (T and T themselves said that it was Will's honor that kept them from having sex before they got married, hence the practicing three hours a day thing continued), or Will's honor/moral code, or her yearning for freedom.
the bars are in place because of choices they made to set Jack free--
so if it weren't for Will's moral code, or Elizabeth's yearning for freedom (or possible preoccupation with a certain pirate?) they would have already done the deed.
Will's line is "keep a weather eye on the horizon". the horizon is constantly associated in the films with freedom-- a sort of unnattainable mythical place of complete freedom.
is it possible Liz has been keeping an eye on the horizon anyways? i mean, who pops out of the horizon and disappears back into it, embodying that freedom?
in any case, Will is basically telling her to focus on freedom- and for Liz, what does that mean? i think that changes quite a lot as the film goes along.
"I have faith in you. Both of you." Keira herself has pretty much said that though Elizabeth has faith in WIll's honor and heart, she doesnt have faith in his ability to successfully complete the mission he's starting out on. She's quite aware she may have to come rescue him.
and why throw in that extra bit about Jack? Elizabeth doesn't entirely trust Jack- but it looks like she wants to.
and maybe this is just me, but i always thought the "where will you find him?" was just a bit of a blatant hint that Elizabeth already had plans not to wait for him but to get out and follow. SHe seemed to know exactly what to do once she got out of jail, as though she had been planning it for a while.
PS: I totally agree with you LovelyOne, and CaptainJackLover, thanks for keeping things going!! 🙂
when you think about it though..basically Jack is the reason why will/Liz havent had sex
thats what that scene suggests..it seems
So she's just kissed Jack and had a whole movie with Jack and Will ends up honorably trying to save his dad..he promises to make that his number 1 priority.
So its kinda like Jack and this kiss..this movie (fare intervening) is what will cause even more problems when it comes to marriage/sex
Will, will become darker but I think he would stay chaste until marriage...he'd be too distracted trying to save his dad IMO
That whole bars thing is actually what we see happen at the end of DMC..
Liz would have Will if Jack hadn't been set free a year before by them. If jack had died in PotC 1 by hanging then Liz would have married Will no problem and she wouldn't be separated from Will
The ending. Liz sees removing Jack as the solution to her problems. She can have Will as long as Jack's not there, he's a threat to her emotionally and in other ways..she has lots of problems here...we later find out thats not the case what she did made things about 1 million times worse for her
Jack is fate intervening in both circumstances it seems.